How to detect MBD in a leopard gecko?

I just want to know how do determine if a leopard gecko has MBD. Pictures would be helpful if nescesary.

Are you seeing something in your Leo that has you concerned?
One of the first outward signs would probably be noticed in the legs, they would appear bowed, not sturdy and straight. The jaw may also appear 'rubbery' or slack. Advanced cases are very obvious.
I haven't pictures but I'm sure a google search would get results.
Post pics of your girl and we can have a look if you want.

Walking on wrists/ankles, swelling in the joints, being unable to hold their bodies up, dragging legs, shaking in limbs, soft looking jaw, warped long bones (legs), spinal and tail kinking in severe cases..

I am currently working with a rescue that has severe MBD. Here are a few pictures to give you an idea of warped bones. These pictures were taken right after I brought him home. He's doing a lot better now but he will be permanently deformed.

http://www.thelogicalchange.com/geckos/MBD1.jpg
http://www.thelogicalchange.com/geckos/MBD2.jpg
http://www.thelogicalchange.com/geckos/MBD3.jpg
http://www.thelogicalchange.com/geckos/MBD4.jpg

Ill take pics tomorow or wednesday. I am not sure but her tail seems a little bit limp when i hold her. She is kind of chubby to, so ill post pics in a few days and you cant ell me what you think.

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Originally Posted by bamf64

Ill take pics tomorow or wednesday. I am not sure but her tail seems a little bit limp when i hold her. She is kind of chubby to, so ill post pics in a few days and you cant ell me what you think.

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Limp, how? As in, she isn't tensing it/holding the muscle tone? If it's flopping around like it's broken, that is a whole different matter, though. Also, chubby, doesn't mean MBD. I have quite a few chubs here that are 110% healthy. Post pictures, though, if you're concerned.

http://www.thelogicalchange.com/geckos/solisIsFat2.jpg

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Originally Posted by coldblooded

Limp, how? As in, she isn't tensing it/holding the muscle tone? If it's flopping around like it's broken, that is a whole different matter, though. Also, chubby, doesn't mean MBD. I have quite a few chubs here that are 110% healthy. Post pictures, though, if you're concerned.

http://www.thelogicalchange.com/geckos/solisIsFat2.jpg

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Its definitely not broken, because when she eats she sticks it up in the air. Ill hav pics up tomorow and also weigh her and see what you think. does that girl in ur pic have MBD?

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Originally Posted by bamf64

Its definitely not broken, because when she eats she sticks it up in the air. Ill hav pics up tomorow and also weigh her and see what you think. does that girl in ur pic have MBD?

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No, she doesn't. Was just showing you an example of a chubby, healthy gecko. ;)

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Originally Posted by coldblooded

No, she doesn't. Was just showing you an example of a chubby, healthy gecko. ;)

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haha that seems to be about what my girl looks like. VERY pretty by the way! Im getting an adult male for xmas and a tangerine is a big possibility :)

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Originally Posted by bamf64

haha that seems to be about what my girl looks like. VERY pretty by the way! Im getting an adult male for xmas and a tangerine is a big possibility :)

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Cool! Tangs are great. And thank you for the compliment, Solis is my pride and joy ;) she was my first leopard gecko.

I'm sure your girl is fine, especially if you are supplementing correctly. The main thing to watch for is bowed legs, joint swelling, and walking on ankles or even elbows/knees.

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Originally Posted by coldblooded

Cool! Tangs are great. And thank you for the compliment, Solis is my pride and joy ;) she was my first leopard gecko.

I'm sure your girl is fine, especially if you are supplementing correctly. The main thing to watch for is bowed legs, joint swelling, and walking on ankles or even elbows/knees.

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Yes im feeding crickets every other day and dusting 2-3 times a week so i think/hope shes good. And are mealworms a good 100% staple? I feed crickets but i want to switch them to mealworms because there way easier to keep.

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Originally Posted by bamf64

Yes im feeding crickets every other day and dusting 2-3 times a week so i think/hope shes good. And are mealworms a good 100% staple? I feed crickets but i want to switch them to mealworms because there way easier to keep.

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Personally, I don't find meal worms to be a good staple. They are not terribly nutritious and there are much better feeders out there. I hate crickets (Too noisy and smelly) so I raise Blaptica Dubia roaches. They are amazing as a staple feeder and VERY easy to keep.

I use the Repashy Superfood ICB to dust with (calcium/vitamin supplement formulated for leopard geckos) and I dust with that every other feeding. I love it. I used to dust with pure calcium every feeding and then use a vitamin supplement with D3 about twice a week. Make sure you are using something with D3, though, or your leo won't be able to process the calcium.

here are a few im looking at:


Super snow patternless rainwater
http://www.goldengategeckos.com/avai...3-071909-A.jpg

Sunglow
http://www.goldengategeckos.com/avai...9-081009-B.jpg

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Originally Posted by coldblooded

Personally, I don't find meal worms to be a good staple. They are not terribly nutritious and there are much better feeders out there. I hate crickets (Too noisy and smelly) so I raise Blaptica Dubia roaches. They are amazing as a staple feeder and VERY easy to keep.

I use the Repashy Superfood ICB to dust with (calcium/vitamin supplement formulated for leopard geckos) and I dust with that every other feeding. I love it. I used to dust with pure calcium every feeding and then use a vitamin supplement with D3 about twice a week. Make sure you are using something with D3, though, or your leo won't be able to process the calcium.

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I wish i could keep dubias my moms REALLY scared of them haha.

Im using repcal calcium w/D3. Would this calcium work to dust with every other feeding?

http://www.petmountain.com/product/r...b-1.75-oz.html

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Originally Posted by bamf64

here are a few im looking at:


Super snow patternless rainwater
http://www.goldengategeckos.com/avai...3-071909-A.jpg

Sunglow
http://www.goldengategeckos.com/avai...9-081009-B.jpg

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Those are good choices. And Marcia from GGG is a wonderful lady with amazing animals...highly recommended.

Just make sure that you keep your albino lines straight if you decide to work with them. There are three strains of albinos that are not compatible and it is NOT a good idea to cross them because it really muddies up the genetics of the offspring. If you chose to work with rainwaters (my personal favorite) then only breed it to things that are either het. rainwater, rainwater, or have no hets. DO NOT breed it to anything that is het. tremper, het. bell, tremper, or bell. If you know this then GREAT! I just wanted to say that because lately I've seen way too many albino crosses and it's really disappointing.

EDIT: and if you choose the Sunglow, remember that that's a tremper albino ;)

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Originally Posted by bamf64

I wish i could keep dubias my moms REALLY scared of them haha.

Im using repcal calcium w/D3. Would this calcium work to dust with every other feeding?

http://www.petmountain.com/product/r...b-1.75-oz.html

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Repcal is good, but you have to remember that D3 is a fat soluble vitamin and it can be overdone. The Repashy superfoods ICB has D3 in it but in low amounts, that's why I use it for everything. RepCal has a much higher dosage of D3 so be careful or just use Calcium without D3 for every feeding and dust with Calcium with D3 or vitamins with D3 every few feedings.

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Originally Posted by coldblooded

Repcal is good, but you have to remember that D3 is a fat soluble vitamin and it can be overdone. The Repashy superfoods ICB has D3 in it but in low amounts, that's why I use it for everything. RepCal has a much higher dosage of D3 so be careful or just use Calcium without D3 for every feeding and dust with Calcium with D3 or vitamins with D3 every few feedings.

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So i should quit using Repcal and get the calcium in the link i sent you in the last post?

btw thanks for helping me. Ive had her for 6 months and i thought ive been doing everything right :tears:

i just want to tell you my setup and how im doing everything, so you can get an idea of what im doing.

-20L tank with UTH hooked up to thermostat around 85-90F basking
-digital thermometer on hot spot
-2 identical hides
-Climbing rock+branch
-plants
-water bowl
-calcium dish

-i feed a few crickets(as many as she will eat) every other day, dusted with calcium a few times a week.
-i give her a bath every other week to help with shedding(shes had perfect sheds every time ive had her :) )

let me know how that sounds...

also, check out my other latest post it has no responses yet and i need an answer lol

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Originally Posted by bamf64

So i should quit using Repcal and get the calcium in the link i sent you in the last post?

btw thanks for helping me. Ive had her for 6 months and i thought ive been doing everything right :tears:

i just want to tell you my setup and how im doing everything, so you can get an idea of what im doing.

-20L tank with UTH hooked up to thermostat around 85-90F basking
-digital thermometer on hot spot
-2 identical hides
-Climbing rock+branch
-plants
-water bowl
-calcium dish

-i feed a few crickets(as many as she will eat) every other day, dusted with calcium a few times a week.
-i give her a bath every other week to help with shedding(shes had perfect sheds every time ive had her :) )

let me know how that sounds...

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That stuff in that link is essentially the same as the Repashy Superfood ICB..If I remember correctly it was just repackaged.. Mr. Allen Repashy commented on this at one point but I can't exactly remember. RepCal w/D3 is fine if you want to continue using it, just keep kind mind that the D3 can be overdone and you may want to consider finding some RepCal without D3 to keep in the tank and to dust with occasionally. Do you supplement with vitamins?

I keep the hot side of my tank at 95-97F. I've kept them this way for a long time and never had any issues (many people will say that leos will catch on fire if you keep them at over 92F..;)). Higher temperatures mean better appetites and digestion. 90F, to me, is too cool. Everything else sounds fine. I do not find bathing necessary. If you have a moist hide for them to shed in there should be no issue. Leos are desert dwelling animals, as we know, and are pretty stressed by water most of the time. I throw a moist hide in their tanks when I notice they are going into shed. The rest of the time I let the hide stay dry.

You have to remember that these animals are very hardy and there are many, many ways to keep them successfully. My way isn't the only 'right' way. As long as your leo is healthy and happy, that is what matters. :)

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Originally Posted by coldblooded

That stuff in that link is essentially the same as the Repashy Superfood ICB..If I remember correctly it was just repackaged.. Mr. Allen Repashy commented on this at one point but I can't exactly remember. RepCal w/D3 is fine if you want to continue using it, just keep kind mind that the D3 can be overdone and you may want to consider finding some RepCal without D3 to keep in the tank and to dust with occasionally. Do you supplement with vitamins?

I keep the hot side of my tank at 95-97F. I've kept them this way for a long time and never had any issues (many people will say that leos will catch on fire if you keep them at over 92F..;)). Higher temperatures mean better appetites and digestion. 90F, to me, is too cool. Everything else sounds fine.

You have to remember that these animals are very hardy and there are many, many ways to keep them successfully. My way isn't the only 'right' way. As long as your leo is healthy and happy, that is what matters. :)

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Ill just start using that stuff that is the same as the superfoods ICB.

No im not supplementing a vitamin... is that bad...?:confused:

Ill raisee the temps a little bit to be safe:gj:

This christmas, im going to make sure she has everything to be happy and healthy. That is my #1 priority. Than i will focus on the new leo.

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Originally Posted by bamf64

Ill just start using that stuff that is the same as the superfoods ICB.

No im not supplementing a vitamin... is that bad...?:confused:

Ill raisee the temps a little bit to be safe:gj:

This christmas, im going to make sure she has everything to be happy and healthy. That is my #1 priority. Than i will focus on the new leo.

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Extra vitamins are good because they will supplement your feeders. Feeder insects do not always have optimal nutrition. The Superfoods ICB is a vitamin/calcium combo so that's all you'll need to use..another reason why I love the stuff.

You are on the right track! She sounds like she's being cared for very well. :) Additional leos are great! Just make sure you practice proper quarantine procedures with ANY and ALL new additions. :)

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Originally Posted by coldblooded

Extra vitamins are good because they will supplement your feeders. Feeder insects do not always have optimal nutrition. The Superfoods ICB is a vitamin/calcium combo so that's all you'll need to use..another reason why I love the stuff.

You are on the right track! She sounds like she's being cared for very well. :) Additional leos are great! Just make sure you practice proper quarantine procedures with ANY and ALL new additions. :)

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I make all my animals first in my life. (other than human family lol)

I would say i am a beginner/intermediate reptile keeper. Ive done TONS of research on almost every herp haha espesialy the ones i have. I think for xmas im going to get my leo a separate thermostat that can be used for both leos. And my BP can have hers all to herself ;)

so im going to get that calcium/vitamin pouder(dusted every other feeding), and all the new supplies for the new leo.

thanks for the help!

also, can you look at my other post about "what wattage bulb to use"? im a little confused haha

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Originally Posted by bamf64

I make all my animals first in my life. (other than human family lol)

I would say i am a beginner/intermediate reptile keeper. Ive done TONS of research on almost every herp haha espesialy the ones i have. I think for xmas im going to get my leo a separate thermostat that can be used for both leos. And my BP can have hers all to herself ;)

so im going to get that calcium/vitamin pouder(dusted every other feeding), and all the new supplies for the new leo.

thanks for the help!

also, can you look at my other post about "what wattage bulb to use"? im a little confused haha

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You're welcome!

My suggestion would to be to get another UTH. I never use bulbs so I can't help you on the wattage thing. If you set up the tank see how hot the UTH is running unregulated through your substrate. If you don't want to buy another thermostat then just buy a rheostat (Dimmer) from a hardware store. It's not as nice as a thermostat but it's cheaper and will do the trick, just make sure to monitor the temperatures a little more closely.

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Originally Posted by coldblooded

You're welcome!

My suggestion would to be to get another UTH. I never use bulbs so I can't help you on the wattage thing. If you set up the tank see how hot the UTH is running unregulated through your substrate. If you don't want to buy another thermostat then just buy a rheostat (Dimmer) from a hardware store. It's not as nice as a thermostat but it's cheaper and will do the trick, just make sure to monitor the temperatures a little more closely.

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Well...i really dont want to use another UTH lol.. if you had a guess, what wattage bulb would u say i should use? if you dont kno its ok

also, if you say Marcia's leos are that good, could i take a chance and not QT? I didnt QT my BP when i got her and there all fine.

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Originally Posted by bamf64

Well...i really dont want to use another UTH lol.. if you had a guess, what wattage bulb would u say i should use? if you dont kno its ok

also, if you say Marcia's leos are that good, could i take a chance and not QT? I didnt QT my BP when i got her and there all fine.

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I still stand firm on getting another UTH. They provide better heat and it's safer. Why do you not want to use it?

Yes, Marcia has amazing animals but you should still always QT. It's always better to be safe than sorry. I won't deviate from that answer :)

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Originally Posted by coldblooded

I still stand firm on getting another UTH. They provide better heat and it's safer. Why do you not want to use it?

Yes, Marcia has amazing animals but you should still always QT. It's always better to be safe than sorry. I won't deviate from that answer :)

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The reason i dont want to use one is because i would have to buy another thermostat. But i would buy one anyway so i guess ill just go with a UTH. What do you reccomend? I have an Alife 1000 thermostat right now for my leo and BP and it is pretty good. Ive always wanted a ranco but cant afford one lol.

beside the point, i am also interested in getting a pacman frog. im still deciding between the leo and that. it might take me a week or so to decide lol

and i wont skip the QT no matter what i get ;)

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Originally Posted by bamf64

The reason i dont want to use one is because i would have to buy another thermostat. But i would buy one anyway so i guess ill just go with a UTH. What do you reccomend? I have an Alife 1000 thermostat right now for my leo and BP and it is pretty good. Ive always wanted a ranco but cant afford one lol.

beside the point, i am also interested in getting a pacman frog. im still deciding between the leo and that. it might take me a week or so to decide lol

and i wont skip the QT no matter what i get ;)

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Like I said in an earlier post, if you don't want to get another thermostat get a rheostat (dimmer). :) They are cheaper but you will have to monitor your temperatures more closely. I don't have a particular thermostat that I prefer. I use a few off brand ones that work well enough and I also use rheostats. I have a few tanks that run unregulated as well.

:thumbsup:

I was wondering the same about mine. I had two but one of mine died two days ago and I'm trying tofigure out what is wrong with this one. I took her to the pet store and I was told that she is water bloated. :confused: she appears to be more pulling herself with her front legs.

Feed phoenix worms and leave a calcium dish in the enclosure and you shouldn't have to worry