Question for thoes of you that remove water bowls for pairing?

Question for thoes of you that remove water bowls for pairing... how do you make sure the snakes get their fulids.
That is if any of you guys do that

I remove the hides but leave the water bowl.

i say this because some people are worried about a snake giving another dormant diseases

I would recommend keeping the water bowl in there. If your snakes happen to be sick they most likely won't breed anyway.

I keep the bowls. I don't see any reason why you'd want to remove them.

Jim Smith

yea my snakes seem to drink just as often when breeding

Watched a RDR video on this subject last night..Ralph Davis reckons that he removes them simply to reduce the risk of cross contamination of any viral/bacterial infection by the snakes sharing drinking water..;)

yeah bruce that what i was getting at
now my question still remains- how will they get their moisture?

i was just going to ask the same question.. :)

i am also having problem.. since i put them in a tub... when i put them together.. they always make a mess... wet paper etc..

right now.. i leave the water bowl.. but change the subtrate to aspen.. i was hoping it will absorb any water if they play around with it.. :)

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Originally Posted by reptidude1

yeah bruce that what i was getting at
now my question still remains- how will they get their moisture?

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Guess that they have to wait til they are seperated again..dont think they need water daily..might be wrong though;)

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Originally Posted by Bruceweb

Watched a RDR video on this subject last night..Ralph Davis reckons that he removes them simply to reduce the risk of cross contamination of any viral/bacterial infection by the snakes sharing drinking water..;)

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That's kind of ridiculous. Considering the intimacy the two reptiles will be experiencing during breeding, worrying about sharing a water bowl is silly.

Hi,

I wondered about that - but I have been removing the waterbowls without thinking about it.

The most common problem that seems to flair up if you are breeding seems to be an RI - whether from overbreeding or just from a slight dip in immune system efficiency due to cooling. At least that is the one I see mentioned most often. :confused:

Now between the act of mating and drinking from the same water source is there any increase or decrease in the chances of an RI being passed from snake to snake? :confused:

I know snakes with an RI will sometimes drool into the water container so can see that as a contamination point - but will that pass to the other snake easier than simply sharing the same environment. And, if the other snakes immune system is healthy, will it still be more likely to become ill because of either form of contact?

And the snakes aren't always without water for the full three days - if I see the male locked up with the female then I remove him once he is done and everybody gets at least a night of alone time with the water dishes replaced.

I have seen Herman ( my big studly normal :P ) spend one hot and steamy night with three snakes in the same week then get fed on the 5th night like a happy little camper. Not exactly all that common but he has done it.


dr del

I remove the dishes... with the stress of breeding and the increased chances of RIs I do not want to risk it.

One thing that my herp vet told me years back was that since they cannot cough, the chance of catching it from the environment is seriously decreased... basically she said "the snake would have to go up and cough in the other one's face to pass it"...

I know we can transfer them and there is a risk from the environment, but a dish would be a definite point of transfer, so taking it out just makes sense to me. One more means to transfer removed.

And a well fed snake (there is a lot of moisture in a rat) i am confident will be fine.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by reptidude1

yeah bruce that what i was getting at
now my question still remains- how will they get their moisture?

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Dude, I only keep my pairs together for nomore then 48 hours. I don't think they are gonna miss their water bowls.

Dr. Del, I think the increase in RI seen around breeding has a lot to do with stress, as well as the other factors you mentioned.

RI's in mammals and birds are often spread by aerosol -- that is viral particles or bacteria are spread into the air with sneezing and coughing. As was mentioned, reptiles don't sneeze and cough, so this method of transmission probably doesn't play a major role. That leaves the other major route of RI transmission -- direct and indirect contact. The infectious microbe comes from the respiratory system, out mouth, and into the environment. Anything the snake's tongue touches or the oral secretions drip on is potentially contaminated. I have yet to meet a snake who only sticks it's tongue out in the water bowl. ;)

If it makes you feel better to take water bowls out, go for it. However, I would not expect it to be an effective means of preventing transmission of respiratory infections between breeding pairs.

I remove water bowls and the main reason is bacteria survive longer in water. These animals dont drink everyday like mammals generally do. Since you only pair for a couple of days its not going to effect them at all. I have been doing this for years. I may mist the enclosure a bit to kick up humidity to mimmick their natural rainy season. As mentioned earlier snakes dont cough or sneeze and sexual contact does not spread RI's(wrong side of the body). When you are pairing males to several females you dont want to find out later that someone was sick and now it has spread to several others. Its a smart safety precaution that I was taught when I first started from successful breeders. You have nothing to loose so why not?

snakes can go for a loonnnnggg time without water.. 5 or so days isnt going to hurt.. I leave my bowls in though.

well, now that ive read these other posts maybe i will remove the bowls :p

A snake with an RI will smear it everywhere... removing the water bowl is just silly. It's like letting two kids with chicken pox play together as long as they don't share drinks.

A ball python can go a few weeks without water... But of course its not recommended... we just leave our water bowls in. No real reason to remove it.

Too many spilled water bowls means no water during breeding.
If they spill the water I clean it up and remove the bowl till they get separated.
I have a couple big girls that spill constantly and seemingly on purpose, good times :P

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Originally Posted by Mike@OutbackReptiles

A snake with an RI will smear it everywhere... removing the water bowl is just silly. It's like letting two kids with chicken pox play together as long as they don't share drinks.

A ball python can go a few weeks without water... But of course its not recommended... we just leave our water bowls in. No real reason to remove it.

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What you are describing is a more advanced case of an RI which I would imagine no one in their right mind would pair together. What you want to protect against is the RI that has not yet been noticed. They dont start out spewing mucos everywhere;)

But to each his own. One thing for sure is it cant hurt to remove bowl so why not?

I leave the water bowls in as i dont cool. Snake room stays in the 80s all year so a RI happening is very slim from breeding.

Ive noticed the females drinking more right after lockups. So i keep it in and change the water the day they separate with fresh cold water.

Based on Kara's recommendation, I remove water dishes during breeding. They are only paired for 3 days and then they go back. Most of the leading reptile vets (Dr. Stahl, Dr. Jacobson) also recommend this to reduce the risk of RI's being spread from one animal to another. It's also why it's so important when you are changing water dishes during your normal cleaning not to "thumb" into one water dish and then "thumb" into the next.

I believe Dr. Scott Stahl also covered this on Reptile Radio as one means of RI transmission in snakes.

Others may find it silly, I prefer to think of it as prudent.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Based on Kara's recommendation, I remove water dishes during breeding. They are only paired for 3 days and then they go back. Most of the leading reptile vets (Dr. Stahl, Dr. Jacobson) also recommend this to reduce the risk of RI's being spread from one animal to another. It's also why it's so important when you are changing water dishes during your normal cleaning not to "thumb" into one water dish and then "thumb" into the next.

I believe Dr. Scott Stahl also covered this on Reptile Radio as one means of RI transmission in snakes.

Others may find it silly, I prefer to think of it as prudent.

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Thats why i have purell on hand at all times. Before i go from one snake to another i wash with the hand sanitizer. Even when its jsut for cleaning or changing water

Semi related, semi-unrelated, but just from casual observation, I rarely ever see my pythons/boa drink, but my colubrids drink all the time. Does anyone know if colubrids actually need more water, or maybe it's just because they tend to be more active and perhaps stumble upon it more?

wow there is a lot of great info in this thread that i never even knew about, thank you for sharing everyone!

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

What you are describing is a more advanced case of an RI which I would imagine no one in their right mind would pair together. What you want to protect against is the RI that has not yet been noticed. They dont start out spewing mucos everywhere;)

But to each his own. One thing for sure is it cant hurt to remove bowl so why not?

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I was talking about the general smearing of germs as the snake moves around the cage... just because they arent spewing mucus doesnt mean they arent depositing small amounts of saliva all over the walls of the cage/tub

Ok the pairing is off...
now they can go like 3 days w/o water right? (they both ate nice jucy and wet rats)

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Originally Posted by reptidude1

Ok the pairing is off...
now they can go like 3 days w/o water right? (they both ate nice jucy and wet rats)

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They will be fine;)

I'd rather let the snakes have access to fresh water than worry about a breeding pair sharing germs through a water bowl. Maybe once someone shows me a study with evidence that removing water bowls from a breeding couple reducing the incidence of RI, I'll change my toon. But right now it seems to me that if there is an RI problem in a breeding colony, steps need to be taken that involve a lot more than water bowl management. I don't care what the big boys are saying, I still think it's silly.