Pythons equal fireworks

im understanding that if bill passes, the wont be banned to buy but banned to by out of state, um well in good ole NC, fire works that shoot up in the aire, are illegal but around the 4th people 24/7 juimp the boarder to buy, some, so ummm,not condunung ANY ILLEGAL activity, but if you cross line with, snake, unless you actuallly get stopped then no-one will persay know. cause how many times has one, shot off an illegal firecracker or bottle rocket. it will just be hard for BHB-NERD and high profile snakes breeders to sell, as cockfighting is illegal but game bird farms advertise there, birds all the time, with a little stamp saying no intended for illegal purposes, AS I SAID BEFORE NO CONDONING ANY BREAKING OF LAW, JUST WONDERING

I believe that the Lacey Act stipulates that any species that is part of it is illegal to own, and any that are in captivity must be put down.

I could be wrong.

yea, i read it to so now I am confused, S323, wow i've seen that bill so much i still dont remember it. is it differant from lacey act, and the HR bill, or are they all tied, in cause i herad S323, lets people keep them, then i heard as you have saying Lacey saying the will be illegal and killed, so little confused or are they 2 bills going

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Originally Posted by BOWSER11788

yea, i read it to so now I am confused, S323, wow i've seen that bill so much i still dont remember it. is it differant from lacey act, and the HR bill, or are they all tied, in cause i herad S323, lets people keep them, then i heard as you have saying Lacey saying the will be illegal and killed, so little confused or are they 2 bills going

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both bills are going still at this point

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

I believe that the Lacey Act stipulates that any species that is part of it is illegal to own, and any that are in captivity must be put down.

I could be wrong.

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That is not correct.

Lacey only regulates the transport of injurious or endangered species between states or in to/out of the US.

When it comes to matters of injurious or endangered species within a state, the Federal Government allows the states to govern themselves ... for now.

If these bills become law, you'll still be able to own, breed, sell, and transport within the state your animals are in at the time of it's passage. Any movement across state lines is a felony (smuggling charge) punishable by up to 10 years in federal prison and a $10,000 fine.

Hope this helps.

-adam

it does thanx

So what do you have to do to transport an animal legally across state lines? Permits and all that yada?

Technically, interstate transport of animals requires a health certificate signed by a veterinarian. This law is only really enforced for livestock, however. But we're all technically breaking the law right now when we send snakes to buyers out of state without a health certificate. Here is a link to the USDA/APHIS website that has information about specific state import laws: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_exp...s_states.shtml

I believe the new laws being proposed would ban interstate transport altogether -- whether a health certificate accompanies the animal or not. Which is totally pointless, IMO, especially considering the current regulations aren't being enforced. I assume pythons already exist in all the states, so what good would banning their interstate transport do? Same with banning importation into the country -- they're already here so what's the point?

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Originally Posted by Nate

So what do you have to do to transport an animal legally across state lines? Permits and all that yada?

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Nothing. No permit. It won't be possible ever if this passes into law.

American Service Men and Women with pythons and boas won't be able to return to their home state after being discharged from the military.

Animals that need specialized veterinary care from a doctor in another state won't be able to get it.

Families that need to move to a new state in order to get work, care for an ailing family member, or retire, will not be able to.

College students attending school away won't be able to move back home with their pets.

Residents living in an area struck by a natural disaster won't be able to evacuate to safety in another state or receive FEMA services that might only be available outside of the disaster area in another state.

These animals will be in peoples homes for the next 30 years at least ... and the people that own them will be left with absolutely no options. One of their most basic freedoms, the freedom of movement within the United States, will be summarily stripped away from them based on a flawed scientific report written by 2 guys and the political will of 3 US Senators.

I am extremely distraught for the breeders and their families, employees, etc that will be financially ruined by this ban, but I am even more disgusted at the actions of our government that will so flippantly trample on our American Democracy that has been preserved by the blood of millions of patriots for over 300 years.

For these reasons, I will give everything I have to this fight. For as long as it takes.

God Bless Us All,

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Nothing. No permit. It won't be possible ever if this passes into law.

American Service Men and Women with pythons and boas won't be able to return to their home state after being discharged from the military.

Animals that need specialized veterinary care from a doctor in another state won't be able to get it.

Families that need to move to a new state in order to get work, care for an ailing family member, or retire, will not be able to.

College students attending school away won't be able to move back home with their pets.

Residents living in an area struck by a natural disaster won't be able to evacuate to safety in another state or receive FEMA services that might only be available outside of the disaster area in another state.

These animals will be in peoples homes for the next 30 years at least ... and the people that own them will be left with absolutely no options. One of their most basic freedoms, the freedom of movement within the United States, will be summarily stripped away from them based on a flawed scientific report written by 2 guys and the political will of 3 US Senators.

I am extremely distraught for the breeders and their families, employees, etc that will be financially ruined by this ban, but I am even more disgusted at the actions of our government that will so flippantly trample on our American Democracy that has been preserved by the blood of millions of patriots for over 300 years.

For these reasons, I will give everything I have to this fight. For as long as it takes.

God Bless Us All,

-adam

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Well said, the first line is me in a nutshell.

It brings to mind a simple quote that really stuck with me:

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The few who look forward, while always knocking on new doors, no matter how futile it may seem or how insignificant their progress, will carry the many who just keep waiting for things to get better.
Mike Dooley

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Even IF we can still breed & sell within the state, what about the hundreds of thousands of $$ the shipping companies will than lose?? There will still be $$ lost. Families will suffer. It will even affect those who do not own reptiles.

I wish you guys would stop downplaying these bills.

To give the facts is fine but to convince people that they need not worry about the affects of these bills will only cause them to become lazy & stop fighting. It is actually better if everyone continues to view them as bills which will BAN every boa & python. Period. Because in the end-----> That IS the ultimate goal for the HSUS & PETA.

Im aware of what the LACY act does. As well as state & federal stipulations for such named animals.

Im still fighting these bills like mad because I know they are the devil & should be treated as such. (figure of speech)

People stop fighting the moment they sense a tiny bit of comfort & relief. Or if they feel they are exempt from the affects.

The truth is, everyone will have to pay the piper for this one if these bills get passed. Herper or not. Economically, but also because it opens doors for more & more freedoms taken away. More & more infringments on our constitution. Etc Etc..

Just to make it a little more clear, the House bill and the Senate will will have to be passed. Then a committee will be formed to take up the bills and compromise to make both bills read the same. This involves both sides to make concessions. The added amendments will also have to be ratified along with the two bills. Once the commttee finally agrees on ONE bill it then goes back to the House and Senate and they vote on the new bill. If both the House and Senate pass the bill, it is sent to the president to sign. If he signs the bill, it then becomes law.

I haven't gone through the entire process, but this is about it.
Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Even IF we can still breed & sell within the state, what about the hundreds of thousands of $$ the shipping companies will than lose?? There will still be $$ lost. Families will suffer. It will even affect those who do not own reptiles.

I wish you guys would stop downplaying these bills.

To give the facts is fine but to convince people that they need not worry about the affects of these bills will only cause them to become lazy & stop fighting. It is actually better if everyone continues to view them as bills which will BAN every boa & python. Period. Because in the end-----> That IS the ultimate goal for the HSUS & PETA.

Im aware of what the LACY act does. As well as state & federal stipulations for such named animals.

Im still fighting these bills like mad because I know they are the devil & should be treated as such. (figure of speech)

People stop fighting the moment they sense a tiny bit of comfort & relief. Or if they feel they are exempt from the affects.

The truth is, everyone will have to pay the piper for this one if these bills get passed. Herper or not. Economically, but also because it opens doors for more & more freedoms taken away. More & more infringments on our constitution. Etc Etc..

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I respectfully disagree.

Fighting this legislation has now consumed my life. I'm averaging about 4 hours of sleep a night and spending 30 - 60 hours in Washington DC every week. Every extra nickle that I have (and even nickles that I don't have) have gone into signs, flyers, website development, and travel. I've basically stopped working my "real job" in order to spend all of my time fighting. I promise you that I want nothing more that to defeat these bills.

But for me, being dishonest or deceptive is not the way to do it. We are battling special interest organizations that have risen to the position of power that they have by manipulating the truth, twisting the facts, sharing partial statistics, and not give the whole story on many issues. If beating this law means turning into the same organizations that I am fighting I'd rather lose. Truth, honesty, and transparency are the only thing we have that makes us better than them. If we stoop to their level, we have lost no matter what the outcome of the vote in the Senate is.

If you feel that telling the truth will keep people from fighting then so be it.

Personally, I believe in the human spirit. I believe that the good guy does win in the end. I believe that if we do our best, honestly and openly, then we've won before we even started.

I certainly don't mean to single you out, but we definitely share a difference of opinions on this one. I still commend you for your efforts and thank you on behalf of everyone I know for all you are giving to the fight. Like minded individuals will disagree from time to time and thank goodness for that. It's what makes this country great.

Respectfully,

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Nothing.

American Service Men and Women with pythons and boas won't be able to return to their home state after being discharged from the military.

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I was waiting to see this Adam, im at Lejeune and im sure you know there are alot of us with pythons and boas. We need to organize ourselves, I think we could have an impact in NC.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I respectfully disagree.

Fighting this legislation has now consumed my life. I'm averaging about 4 hours of sleep a night and spending 30 - 60 hours in Washington DC every week. Every extra nickle that I have (and even nickles that I don't have) have gone into signs, flyers, website development, and travel. I've basically stopped working my "real job" in order to spend all of my time fighting. I promise you that I want nothing more that to defeat these bills.

But for me, being dishonest or deceptive is not the way to do it. We are battling special interest organizations that have risen to the position of power that they have by manipulating the truth, twisting the facts, sharing partial statistics, and not give the whole story on many issues. If beating this law means turning into the same organizations that I am fighting I'd rather lose. Truth, honesty, and transparency are the only thing we have that makes us better than them. If we stoop to their level, we have lost no matter what the outcome of the vote in the Senate is.

If you feel that telling the truth will keep people from fighting then so be it.

Personally, I believe in the human spirit. I believe that the good guy does win in the end. I believe that if we do our best, honestly and openly, then we've won before we even started.

I certainly don't mean to single you out, but we definitely share a difference of opinions on this one. I still commend you for your efforts and thank you on behalf of everyone I know for all you are giving to the fight. Like minded individuals will disagree from time to time and thank goodness for that. It's what makes this country great.

Respectfully,

-adam

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No. I do not mean be dishonest. What I mean is, instead of telling everyone "but you will still be able to......"

From reading replies to all these threads on this subject, alot of people are confused about these bills.

Its good that people step in and explain but those people also need to explain what will be ultimately lost.

You are not the only one losing sleep about this. Ive been dreaming of snakes for weeks now and they are not happy/stress-free dreams.

People need to remember that we cant just give up. Yes there is still a long process to go before it becomes law if its passed but just to show how much interest & debate this has caused is good fight in itself.

Dont get me wrong. I believe everyone needs to be made aware of all the facts but it should not be downplayed. The likely repricussions later on, if these bills are made into law, should be told. Some of the comments on these threads are lulling people into a false sense of security IMO.

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Originally Posted by hud556

I was waiting to see this Adam, im at Lejeune and im sure you know there are alot of us with pythons and boas. We need to organize ourselves, I think we could have an impact in NC.

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If you could get me a list of a bunch of guys down there with pythons and boas (names, addresses, and home states) I can take it around to their Senators in DC. It would have a big impact.

Let me know if we can make something happen.

adam@natpet.org

Semper Fi and thank you for your service.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

If you could get me a list of a bunch of guys down there with pythons and boas (names, addresses, and home states) I can take it around to their Senators in DC. It would have a big impact.

Let me know if we can make something happen.

adam@natpet.org

Semper Fi and thank you for your service.

-adam

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And THIS is a great idea.. Let me talk to a friend whose husband is on base out west. They love reptiles & maybe I can get a list from out there too.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Even IF we can still breed & sell within the state, what about the hundreds of thousands of $$ the shipping companies will than lose?? There will still be $$ lost. Families will suffer. It will even affect those who do not own reptiles.

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The problem with this argument is that the reptile trade is a drop in the bucket compared to all other shipments that UPS, FedEx, Delta Dash, etc. go through. I don't have any exact numbers on this, but it seems to me that if the entire reptile trade vanished overnight, none of the shipping companies would even notice.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

That is not correct.

Lacey only regulates the transport of injurious or endangered species between states or in to/out of the US.

When it comes to matters of injurious or endangered species within a state, the Federal Government allows the states to govern themselves ... for now.

If these bills become law, you'll still be able to own, breed, sell, and transport within the state your animals are in at the time of it's passage. Any movement across state lines is a felony (smuggling charge) punishable by up to 10 years in federal prison and a $10,000 fine.

Hope this helps.

-adam

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Wouldn't this make high-end morphs worth 50 times more (because there are 50 states) than they are worth now? Many of us will suddenly have the ONLY (insert morph here) in our state.

yea, im all over the Nc, area, myspace pages, twitter, facebook, college campus bulliton bords. trying all i can

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Originally Posted by Jenn

Wouldn't this make high-end morphs worth 50 times more (because there are 50 states) than they are worth now? Many of us will suddenly have the ONLY (insert morph here) in our state.

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Much of the value assigned to high end morphs is in people ability to use that animal as a small or large investment vehicle. Breeders & Hobbyists pay higher dollar amounts with the hopes of breeding, producing babies, and getting a decent value for those babies. If the market is suddenly reduced from a global one to a local one, the value of those animals will suddenly and dramatically be reduced. Already, I've heard stories of people not wanting to spend lots of money on any "investment" mutations until all of these issues are settled.

Coupled with the fact that you won't be able to leave your state with the animal for 30+ years and if that high end "morph" gets sick, you won't be able to get veterinary care for it if you aren't one of the people lucky enough to have an experienced herp vet in your area. Also, vets that run lab work on blood and tissue and use labs in other states could potentially be prosecuted for sending that material across state lines.

There is absolutely no way pet owners will benefit from this law, and it will inevitably become an extremely inhumane piece of legislation for our nations estimated 1.2 million pythons and boas that it will effect.

-adam

It will be extremely inhumane. Especially if we are required to put down our animals. I will never do it. If the bill ever gets that far we should all refuse to put down our animals. Can you imagine the public outcry when our own government is forced to kill millions of harmless pets. Perhaps someone from PETA could come around to take care of that task.