Need feedback

I have been up a lot at night consummed with the thought of where these bills are taking the hobby we all love. Last night while not being able to sleep I thought of an idea and wanted to know what you guys thought of it. I have the video equipment and connections to make a full documentery on this whole mess, kind of a Michael Moore style " death of the big snake era". In no way am I saying we are going to lose this battle and I will fight every minute of everyday to win. I think this is something that if it does pass will be one of the biggest hits on the pet trade in my life. I've been keeping big snakes since I was fifteen. The problem is it's not cheap to do this to where Animal Planet or Discovery would want to pick this up. I would want to shoot in the everglades on Burmese hunts, talk with the FWC, travel to D.C. to get Senators on film, talk with all the major organizations on both sides of the battle including the hsus as well as visit the big snake breeders to see what it would do to them and their many employees lives. I'm talking a real film, maybe two versions. One being an hour long for the networks and another being 90 minutes or so for a DVD. If the unthinkable happens and we lose this fight maybe this would be enough to open the publics eyes to stop any future attacks? There would be no way to do this all in time to help this fight, so my question to you guys is: should I try to fund raise for this project or would it be better to put all our efferts into just the battle at hand?? I'm very torn over it, I just want the public to see what is really happening here. Let me know what you think and if you want to send me a private e-mail you can at bhb@comcast.net Thanks, Brian(BHB)

I think that's a pretty cool idea. I'm sure other big breeders would help out. It definitely wouldn't be time wasted!

I think that this would acutally be a very positive impact.

Show the REAL facts....the REAL truth.....

I think its a great idea!! We have to be vigilant this is only the beginning. Tell us what you need and we'll help however possible.

I'm in!

e-mail sent :gj:

Awesome idea Brian!

I think it's a great idea. One thing to think about is that the fight at hand is likely to be a short-term one. It's likely to go to a Senate vote in a month or so. After that, we might have a reprieve prior to the House (provided it doesn't get defeated in the Senate). I think there is a way to balance it out and keep the fight going at hand as well as do the documentary as well. We definitely need something to offset the HSUS propaganda.

Sort of like herpers the movie but it could be called the death of the herp industry.

SPECTACULAR PLAN. While I have little to share financially I would certainly be willing to send what I can to help with this and do anything else I can do to help. This is exactly the thing I've been talking about in another forum.

Here is a letter I wrote to a PhD at Duke U about a cool video I'd seen. It was a great vid, except at the end he started talking about how the big snakes will move into other parts of the county. I wrote back in the friendliest, would like to know tone to try to get more from him and didn't get much that impressed me as provable or even really reasonable.

I'm no brain surgeon for sure but when I hear things like invasive, invasions, migration I want to hear about what these people are really thinking, believing and making judgments on. It is only by knowing every detail of their arguments, that you can take those arguments and idea's apart. M. Moore is a master at this technique and uses it to his advantage to create a scene where he can totally dismantle the false ideas & beliefs piece by piece and show how really silly they are.
This would take a very unique spokesman, who could (I do not in any way mean for this to sound calculating but perhaps LOADED FOR BEAR but carrying a bouquet) pull in the argument with interest and kindness and with interest, kindness and knowledge, then take it on, as it were and show how REALLY SILLY IT IS!

Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 11:18 AM

Hello Mr. Joppa,
I just watched a video on the National Geographic site about the invasion of large species snakes into the Everglades. The video contained guests Nicolette Cagle and her husband with their Boa Constrictor. I was really impressed with the video and especially your idea of placing large heat mats out to catch the mother pythons. I'm wondering if this is being attempted and if so, how it is going. I'd think so big Kane heat mats for livestock would attract females like mad!
Being a reptile owner, I am very interested in all the information on this problem and the solutions being attempted. I was disappointed that at the end you made a comment about the potential for these animals to migrate out of the Everglades. I'm curious as to just how far you believe these snakes could go. It's always been my opinion that these animals could never endure night time temp drops of more than about 40-50 degrees for any extended period of time. I'd be really interested in hearing your take on that. I would love to share your knowledge with other reptile owners as well. I await to hear from you and understand you schedule is probably quite busy.
Thank you for your time sir.
Kris Wills



Hi Kris,

Thanks so much for writing. I've cc'ed Nicki Cagle, who was also part of the video you are referring to.

There are two competing studies on the potential range expansion of the burmese in the Florida Everglades. The USGS published a rather high-profile report that gained extensive media coverage and claimed an enormous potential range expansion of the species. The report can be found at (http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp​ID1875).

There is another journal article, which can be found for free at (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0002931) that questions the results of the USGS report.

I don't put much stock in either of those studies. Both rely on a scientific method called "climate envelope modeling" or "ecological niche modeling". These techniques use the known range of a species to predict where it could potentially occur, but work quite poorly with an invasive species such as the Burmese. The Burmese has already shown it is capable of inhabiting ecosystems quite different from its native one. It is a top predator, adept on land and in water. Above a size class which it reaches in its first two years, it is relatively immune to predation. Many semi-aquatic ecosystems in the southern US offer a easy and hyper-abundant prey source (nutria). I am unsure why you think that the species would be incapable of weathering temperatures below 50F for any extended period of time, in my mind it would be quite possible. Anyway, those are just my thoughts.

Unfortunately, there has not been any interest from the parks service on pursuing the heat mat method I had recommended. That is too bad, because I agree with you that it should work like a charm! Have you had any experience with outdoor heat mat usage? If so, I would like to hear how things have gone for you.

Again, thanks for writing. I'm happy to hear you enjoyed the video!

Cheers,

Lucas


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucas N. Joppa, PhD
Nicholas School of the Environment

So I wrote him back again and told him that I was in Colorado. I talked about how the night time drops at anything past north Florida and possibly the southern most part of Georgia (in a warm year) did not seem, even close to suitable for a python. I never heard another word back. Now granted. I am sure this man doesn't have tons of time on his hands to talk folks like me but the point is, when people like PhD's start talking about this stuff people who don't really think things through can be very easily drawn in.

I think that a M. Moore'ish type discovery video would be wonderful. It is my understanding that National Geographic has even said (among others) that the original study results were highly questionable and based on bad science and therefore not worthy of making any decisions on. I also have heard precious little about any big numbers of Pythons being found in the Everglades and I have looked. The last number I heard was something less than 100 animals. FAR from the ten's of thousands some would of the scoundrels are yammering about.
I wrote to Greg Graziani when I heard he was involved in an effort to hunt for the python and this is the link he sent me to a video.
http://newsroom.blogs.cnn.com/2009/0...thon-trackers/

So, wow, sorry. Long post here but I wanted to let you know how TRULY interested I am in your idea!!!!!!! Like I said, I'm totally loving it and would do anything I could do to help. Even if it's gathering banter off the internet and sending a few bucks. WHATEVER! I'm in!

Yeah, like the herpers movie but something like " Death of the Big Snake Era"? Need to come up with a really good and catchy name that would get peoples attention at indy film festivals. I know I can use Dav Kaufman from herpers to help in our cause. It's a HUGE project, but I will do anything to protect the future of our hobby. Thanks! Brian(Sbtv)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by singingtothewheat

SPECTACULAR PLAN. While I have little to share financially I would certainly be willing to send what I can to help with this and do anything else I can do to help. This is exactly the thing I've been talking about in another forum.

Here is a letter I wrote to a PhD at Duke U about a cool video I'd seen. It was a great vid, except at the end he started talking about how the big snakes will move into other parts of the county. I wrote back in the friendliest, would like to know tone to try to get more from him and didn't get much that impressed me as provable or even really reasonable.

I'm no brain surgeon for sure but when I hear things like invasive, invasions, migration I want to hear about what these people are really thinking, believing and making judgments on. It is only by knowing every detail of their arguments, that you can take those arguments and idea's apart. M. Moore is a master at this technique and uses it to his advantage to create a scene where he can totally dismantle the false ideas & beliefs piece by piece and show how really silly they are.
This would take a very unique spokesman, who could (I do not in any way mean for this to sound calculating but perhaps LOADED FOR BEAR but carrying a bouquet) pull in the argument with interest and kindness and with interest, kindness and knowledge, then take it on, as it were and show how REALLY SILLY IT IS!

Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 11:18 AM

Hello Mr. Joppa,
I just watched a video on the National Geographic site about the invasion of large species snakes into the Everglades. The video contained guests Nicolette Cagle and her husband with their Boa Constrictor. I was really impressed with the video and especially your idea of placing large heat mats out to catch the mother pythons. I'm wondering if this is being attempted and if so, how it is going. I'd think so big Kane heat mats for livestock would attract females like mad!
Being a reptile owner, I am very interested in all the information on this problem and the solutions being attempted. I was disappointed that at the end you made a comment about the potential for these animals to migrate out of the Everglades. I'm curious as to just how far you believe these snakes could go. It's always been my opinion that these animals could never endure night time temp drops of more than about 40-50 degrees for any extended period of time. I'd be really interested in hearing your take on that. I would love to share your knowledge with other reptile owners as well. I await to hear from you and understand you schedule is probably quite busy.
Thank you for your time sir.
Kris Wills



Hi Kris,

Thanks so much for writing. I've cc'ed Nicki Cagle, who was also part of the video you are referring to.

There are two competing studies on the potential range expansion of the burmese in the Florida Everglades. The USGS published a rather high-profile report that gained extensive media coverage and claimed an enormous potential range expansion of the species. The report can be found at (http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp​ID1875).

There is another journal article, which can be found for free at (http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0002931) that questions the results of the USGS report.

I don't put much stock in either of those studies. Both rely on a scientific method called "climate envelope modeling" or "ecological niche modeling". These techniques use the known range of a species to predict where it could potentially occur, but work quite poorly with an invasive species such as the Burmese. The Burmese has already shown it is capable of inhabiting ecosystems quite different from its native one. It is a top predator, adept on land and in water. Above a size class which it reaches in its first two years, it is relatively immune to predation. Many semi-aquatic ecosystems in the southern US offer a easy and hyper-abundant prey source (nutria). I am unsure why you think that the species would be incapable of weathering temperatures below 50F for any extended period of time, in my mind it would be quite possible. Anyway, those are just my thoughts.

Unfortunately, there has not been any interest from the parks service on pursuing the heat mat method I had recommended. That is too bad, because I agree with you that it should work like a charm! Have you had any experience with outdoor heat mat usage? If so, I would like to hear how things have gone for you.

Again, thanks for writing. I'm happy to hear you enjoyed the video!

Cheers,

Lucas


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucas N. Joppa, PhD
Nicholas School of the Environment

So I wrote him back again and told him that I was in Colorado. I talked about how the night time drops at anything past north Florida and possibly the southern most part of Georgia (in a warm year) did not seem, even close to suitable for a python. I never heard another word back. Now granted. I am sure this man doesn't have tons of time on his hands to talk folks like me but the point is, when people like PhD's start talking about this stuff people who don't really think things through can be very easily drawn in.

I think that a M. Moore'ish type discovery video would be wonderful. It is my understanding that National Geographic has even said (among others) that the original study results were highly questionable and based on bad science and therefore not worthy of making any decisions on. I also have heard precious little about any big numbers of Pythons being found in the Everglades and I have looked. The last number I heard was something less than 100 animals. FAR from the ten's of thousands some would of the scoundrels are yammering about.
I wrote to Greg Graziani when I heard he was involved in an effort to hunt for the python and this is the link he sent me to a video.
http://newsroom.blogs.cnn.com/2009/0...thon-trackers/

So, wow, sorry. Long post here but I wanted to let you know how TRULY interested I am in your idea!!!!!!! Like I said, I'm totally loving it and would do anything I could do to help. Even if it's gathering banter off the internet and sending a few bucks. WHATEVER! I'm in!

---

Great information! I could use you for sure on this. Please e-amil me and we can talk about working together! Thanks so much! Brian(BHB) bhb@comcast.net

Brian, I like the idea; however, I wonder if it would be more helpful to use the same money and time to fight the battle at hand. We do need to continue to think of new ways to battle this bill, and similar bills, but I wonder how many people outside of our community would watch such a documentary. I purchased Herpers and thought it was fun but how many non herpers watched it? If people aren't interested they may simply switch channels, that's what I do when I come across something I'm not interested in. Many folks would watch your documentary but most would already be on our side. If you do move forward I think a good angle may be to point out how our liberties are being taken away, our cause is just one of them. It's hard to explain to people why we should be able to keep these animals but everyone understands the loss of freedoms and liberties. Just a thought.

Hi,

How about;

Florida and the lies that killed herpetology

Snakes, Lies and everglades

The python and the politician

Nelson: a jackass for all occasions

HSUS: liars for a living

Who killed the pet trade

Who pinched my python

Snakes and freedom

Those are the only ones that pop into my mind I can put on here. :oops:


dr del

ha. doc you gave me an idea...

"Everglades...what lies beneath" :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Green

Brian, I like the idea; however, I wonder if it would be more helpful to use the same money and time to fight the battle at hand. We do need to continue to think of new ways to battle this bill, and similar bills, but I wonder how many people outside of our community would watch such a documentary. I purchased Herpers and thought it was fun but how many non herpers watched it? If people aren't interested they may simply switch channels, that's what I do when I come across something I'm not interested in. Many folks would watch your documentary but most would already be on our side. If you do move forward I think a good angle may be to point out how our liberties are being taken away, our cause is just one of them. It's hard to explain to people why we should be able to keep these animals but everyone understands the loss of freedoms and liberties. Just a thought.

---

I totally agree with approaching this as an invasion not of pythons but of our liberties!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

How about;

Florida and the lies that killed herpetology

Snakes, Lies and everglades

The python and the politician

Nelson: a jackass for all occasions

HSUS: liars for a living

Who killed the pet trade

Who pinched my python I want a t-shift that says this!!!!!!!!

Snakes and freedom

Those are the only ones that pop into my mind I can put on here. :oops:


dr del

---

Herp Crisis
Reptile Crisis
Cold Blooded Crisis


yeah..."Crisis" seems to be a popular "ZOMG" buzz word.

Few more;

Snake oil - the florida deception

Greed in the 'glades

The saw-grass and the snake

When bad science attacks


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Green

Brian, I like the idea; however, I wonder if it would be more helpful to use the same money and time to fight the battle at hand. We do need to continue to think of new ways to battle this bill, and similar bills, but I wonder how many people outside of our community would watch such a documentary. I purchased Herpers and thought it was fun but how many non herpers watched it? If people aren't interested they may simply switch channels, that's what I do when I come across something I'm not interested in. Many folks would watch your documentary but most would already be on our side. If you do move forward I think a good angle may be to point out how our liberties are being taken away, our cause is just one of them. It's hard to explain to people why we should be able to keep these animals but everyone understands the loss of freedoms and liberties. Just a thought.

---

I agree it is a tough thing, if we think short term we should put all our resourses towards this fight. And I would never want to take anything away from that fight, that being said this is the largest thing that has happened to our trade in the hobby's history. I think people outside the herp community would be interested in it if we took the Michael Moore angle of how the politicians cost the country 100's of millions of dollars over an invasive species law that was passed on bad science and only for political gain. If we went forward we would not make it a reptile film, there is no reason to make a film about this for reptile people. You could never compair "Herpers" to this project. I love the Herpers movie and Dav Kaufman has signed onto this project if we decide as a community that it's in our best interest. That's the big question at this point, do we want to as a community have this travicy documented from here going forward?? I want the masses, not the reptile people to realize the truth. I'm not sure there is a better way to get the truth out?? I am open to your opinions and if we as a comminity decide it's not worth it then by all means I will shelf it. Thanks, Brian(BHB)

Sounds like a great idea make that movie.

Maybe contact National Geographic looking at their blog on this it would seem they might want to take part getting interviews on the bad science with Brady Barr would be nice. Who knows maybe Natgeo will help fund ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snakemastercanada

Maybe contact National Geographic looking at their blog on this it would seem they might want to take part getting interviews on the bad science with Brady Barr would be nice. Who knows maybe Natgeo will help fund ?

---

I will be sure to contact NatGeo as well as my contacts at Animal Planet and Discovery. Not sure if they will commision something like this, but I would bet they would buy it and air it if they are not interested in funding it up front. Thanks, Brian(BHB)

dude you have my vote for a doc.and a lil fundining from me if you decide to go with it...i think you should, you'd be perfect for the job!! and more than just reptile people need to see the film(obviosly) imo people need more info on the" big guys" other than what news stations tell people....for instance calling them "man eaters" i mean cmon now...do they know cats can eat man too!!!. go for it bro.

jayson rafter:gj:

i know im thinking way big here...but how bout trying to contact m.m himself? if we could get him involved...man the politions would be up the creek then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jayson

i know im thinking way big here...but how bout trying to contact m.m himself? if we could get him involved...man the politions would be up the creek then.

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Ummm....my vote would be no. He's a joke.

Brian, I do like the idea; however, the approach may be just as important as the subject. You may want to get some "non-reptile" people involved to avoid making a film that may only interest us. I've talked to several people the last few days and when discussing how this bill moved forward they were shocked. My brother told me that if he didn't know I was telling him the truth he wouldn't have believed it. Also, if they move a bill forward like this what's next? Our gov't talks about how they want to help the unemployed and small business and this bill would do the opposite. What other business and jobs will be attacked next? The same day that this bill moved forward our gov't was discussing how they should change the college football playoff system. The worst economy of our time and 10% unemployment and they're discussing college football??

I also think it may be a good idea to see how other lobbiests and PR companies have addressed subjects that aren't so popular or well known. The more ways we attack this bill the better.

Just throwing some ideas out there...

Brian sounds like an AWESOME idea!!!

Go for it man!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Green

Brian, I do like the idea; however, the approach may be just as important as the subject. You may want to get some "non-reptile" people involved to avoid making a film that may only interest us. I've talked to several people the last few days and when discussing how this bill moved forward they were shocked. My brother told me that if he didn't know I was telling him the truth he wouldn't have believed it. Also, if they move a bill forward like this what's next? Our gov't talks about how they want to help the unemployed and small business and this bill would do the opposite. What other business and jobs will be attacked next? The same day that this bill moved forward our gov't was discussing how they should change the college football playoff system. The worst economy of our time and 10% unemployment and they're discussing college football??

I also think it may be a good idea to see how other lobbiests and PR companies have addressed subjects that aren't so popular or well known. The more ways we attack this bill the better.

Just throwing some ideas out there...

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I could not agree with you more, it is very important to make it so that it is not a reptile film, but a film exposing bad politics. This is about a hobby that generate hundreds of thousands of jobs, we are not an underground business like some people think. We could both open peoples eyes to our incredible hobby while making sure the focus is on job loss, economic impact not to mention pull at peoples hearts with the fact that hundreds of thousands of animals are the real losers in all of this. Like the comment that we could sell their skins to offset the loss, I'm sure people would be blown away that our elected officials feel that way towards helpless animals. I'm open to any and all ideas. This would be for the community but made in a way that would transend the community. Thanks for the thoughts! Brian(BHB)

Wow!
I think it would be a great idea, but the only problem is that what you are talking about would take months to complete, and would probably not be finished and distributed until after the bill has been denied or approved.
If your goal is to get people informed about this specific bill and have them do something, it probably won't do a whole lot of good. But, if your goal was to alert people about the situation in general and to be on the lookout for future bills, then I think it would be a great idea!

I almost hate to ask, but what does Laurie think of this possible huge undertaking?:rofl::rofl:

My idea for a name... " One Block At A Time... The Dismantling of the American Pet Industry."


Rob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

My idea for a name... " One Block At A Time... The Dismantling of the American Pet Industry."


Rob

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I just posted this link in another thread, but this is why I chose that title...


http://action.humanesociety.org/site...aison_Petition

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

Wow!
I think it would be a great idea, but the only problem is that what you are talking about would take months to complete, and would probably not be finished and distributed until after the bill has been denied or approved.
If your goal is to get people informed about this specific bill and have them do something, it probably won't do a whole lot of good. But, if your goal was to alert people about the situation in general and to be on the lookout for future bills, then I think it would be a great idea!

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Like I said earlier this thread, this would not help with this bill. I'm sure in a long thread it's hard to follow everything that is said. This is more to document what has happened with this bill and the fall out that a bill like this would have on our hobby and our already ailing economy. Being that it is a bill that should have never been presented on a federal level seeing as the entire premiss of the bill is based on a USGS survey that is based in bad science. I think we can really shine light on how corrupt this entire process has been with not even having any tesimony from any expert witnesses on our side. No matter how this bill ends up this would help us from futher attacks, rest assured they are coming. If we expose some of the politics behind this and what has happened here I truly believe that we can get public opinion on our side, because as you know it is cetainly not on our side at the moment. Hope this all makes sense. Thanks, Brian(BHB)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

I almost hate to ask, but what does Laurie think of this possible huge undertaking?:rofl::rofl:

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In this case she is surprisingly supportive. She knows how much this hobby means to me and she said that she would stand by me through the entire process. Although I don't have many snakes that are on this list to be banned, it's still devistating to me personally. It's nice to have Dav Kaufman (herpers) in as well. He knows how to make a documentary and will take a lot of pressure off me, not to mention he knows how to get it in all the indy film festivals. Thanks, Brian(BHB)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

My idea for a name... " One Block At A Time... The Dismantling of the American Pet Industry."


Rob

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I like this one a lot! Thanks, Brian(BHB)

I think the film would be a great idea. Even if we defeat this bill, I think it would be good to show the public just how screwed up the political machine is. But yes, I think this is definitely a project worth undertaking, and would be willing to do anything I could to help with it.

If they do by chance pass the bill it is just a start to diminish the rest of the pet trade. I think doing the movie would be a great idea and you should include what COULD happen down the road with other herps and animals.
Marty Penny

Wonderful idea! We need to be thinking long-term as well as short-term. We need to make it so that no more bills like this get past the subcommittees. A video like this could help stop future Stupid like this from occurring.

I think to get non-reptile people involved, it should focus on the pet trade in general. Expose ignorant politicians and organizations like the HSUS that say one thing and do the opposite. If more people knew what the HSUS actually stood for, they would not only stop donating to it, but they would also be more apt to disagree with anything they stood for. Reptiles can be the main focus, but digging up some additional information on other animals banned for no reason (pit bulls and other dog breeds, maybe?) would help pull more pet-owners in.

Also, we should focus on our liberties being taken away. This was a huge deal with Bush in power (Patriot Act, etc.), but now people aren't paying attention.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eventide

Wonderful idea! We need to be thinking long-term as well as short-term. We need to make it so that no more bills like this get past the subcommittees. A video like this could help stop future Stupid like this from occurring.

I think to get non-reptile people involved, it should focus on the pet trade in general. Expose ignorant politicians and organizations like the HSUS that say one thing and do the opposite. If more people knew what the HSUS actually stood for, they would not only stop donating to it, but they would also be more apt to disagree with anything they stood for. Reptiles can be the main focus, but digging up some additional information on other animals banned for no reason (pit bulls and other dog breeds, maybe?) would help pull more pet-owners in.

Also, we should focus on our liberties being taken away. This was a huge deal with Bush in power (Patriot Act, etc.), but now people aren't paying attention.

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I agree with you 1000%! This can focus on our reptile problems, but also go beyond that to other sectors of the pet trade. It would open the market for a much larger audience and that is what we would need to do to make this thing go big time. Thanks so much for your support! Brian(BHB)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Ummm....my vote would be no. He's a joke.

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i agree with you but,
he could also get the whole world to listen.do you honestly think we can stop them by are self.these politicians dont care about what we say(for the most part) we need to be heard LOUD and getting him would be as loud as it gets.

I support you fully! I do not have much to give though seeing as I'm 14 but I will help as much as I possibly can!

You have my support as well, just let us know what you need, and perhaps we can all pool together and help out.

I'd support you 100% Brian.

On a side note, I live in Southwest Florida, 15 minutes from the Everglades and right now this very moment it is 42 degrees farenheit outside and supposed to drop into the high 30's.

Pretty sure no large snake could survive that.

so are the congress men/women & the politicians.:rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Ummm....my vote would be no. He's a joke.

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This is not a "USARK" statement, just mine***

I think a good angle would be to make the focus of the film The HSUS (and possibly other AR orgs but don't want to lose focus). It could expose them for who they really are which of course would hopefully limit their impact on politicians and also impact their funding/donations. A mention of the financial statements and recent pushes by the public to have their IRS tax-exempt status revoked could be huge components in establishing the credibility of The HSUS.

The film could then delve into how their two main purposes are to engage in litigation and legislation. The legislation portion would logically flow to politicians and then to the Anti-Reptile Legislation.

Exposing HSUS backed legislation that targets all segments of the cat and dog industry would be helpful to illustrate that although they haven't come right out and stated they're against keeping cats and dogs, their total effort towards eliminating large scale breeders, eliminating pet store sellers, and enforcing spay and neuter laws for everyone else would end cat and dog ownership in one generation. It would also be helpful to get the "cuddly" pet owners interested as well.

HR669 could be used as an example of broad efforts, and then HR2811 and S373 could be the "building blocks" illustrating what The HSUS is willing to do when broad measures fail.

Possibly end the legislation piece with a simple illustration of a pie regarding "exotic" animals. HR669 was a whole pie. HSUS couldn't eat it all at once. So they tried HR2811/S373, it's just a slice of pie. The others slices are still out there, waiting to be eaten.

I think exposing those who are attacking the entire industry is the way to go. It would hopefully limit attacks on the entire pet industry.

Just my thoughts. Again, NOT USARK's position***

Quote:

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Originally Posted by USARK.Jonathan.Brady

This is not a "USARK" statement, just mine***

I think a good angle would be to make the focus of the film The HSUS (and possibly other AR orgs but don't want to lose focus). It could expose them for who they really are which of course would hopefully limit their impact on politicians and also impact their funding/donations. A mention of the financial statements and recent pushes by the public to have their IRS tax-exempt status revoked could be huge components in establishing the credibility of The HSUS.

The film could then delve into how their two main purposes are to engage in litigation and legislation. The legislation portion would logically flow to politicians and then to the Anti-Reptile Legislation.

Exposing HSUS backed legislation that targets all segments of the cat and dog industry would be helpful to illustrate that although they haven't come right out and stated they're against keeping cats and dogs, their total effort towards eliminating large scale breeders, eliminating pet store sellers, and enforcing spay and neuter laws for everyone else would end cat and dog ownership in one generation. It would also be helpful to get the "cuddly" pet owners interested as well.

HR669 could be used as an example of broad efforts, and then HR2811 and S373 could be the "building blocks" illustrating what The HSUS is willing to do when broad measures fail.

Possibly end the legislation piece with a simple illustration of a pie regarding "exotic" animals. HR669 was a whole pie. HSUS couldn't eat it all at once. So they tried HR2811/S373, it's just a slice of pie. The others slices are still out there, waiting to be eaten.

I think exposing those who are attacking the entire industry is the way to go. It would hopefully limit attacks on the entire pet industry.

Just my thoughts. Again, NOT USARK's position***

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Very well said...:gj:

I think one VERY important thing to do is show lots of images of healthy, content, and well-kept animals. HSUS bombards the media with images of abuse, and then implies that abuse is all there is out there. We need to show what healthy, beautiful, and properly kept animals look like--to show them active, eating, basking, etc., in situ.

We're used to seeing these images in the community, but people outside the community rarely see them. They need to get the visual impact of the fact that yes, private citizens CAN properly keep reptiles, and can keep them healthy and happy.

Great idea. you should deffinetly do it.