UPDATE: S373 Python Ban

UPDATE: S373 Python Ban

Today the Senate Committee on the Environment & Public Works (EPW) held a business meeting on S. 373. Committee Chair Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) and Ranking Member Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) presided. After brief statements the committee held a mark up session on S. 373, to amend title 18, United States Code, to add constrictor snakes of the species Python genera to the Injurious Wildlife list of the Lacey Act. Senator Inhofe expressed concerns about the bill. Senator Ben Cardin (D-MD) offered an amendment to limit the scope of the bill to only the 9 snakes addressed in the USGS report on large constrictors. Senator Cardin further agreed to work with Senator Inhofe to improve the bill prior to a vote on the Senate floor. The amendment was passed by voice vote. S373 was then voted out of Committee by voice vote with Senator Inhofe registering a NO vote.

S373 has now passed committee. It can not become law until it is voted on and passed by the full Senate and House of Representatives. There is still much work to be done prior to the Python Ban becoming law. S373 in its current form in unacceptable to USARK and the Reptile Nation. We will continue to work with Senator Inhofe, Senator Cardin and the EPW Committee Staff to shape the future of this bill. Please make an appointment to visit with your Senator and express your concerns with S373. Everyone needs to step up and make contact with your Senator. Let USARK know about your meeting. It is time to step up our game and show Washington we are serious about this. Continue the good fight. The Reptile Nation thanks Senator Inhofe for his even handed treatment of our industry.

Following is the statement of Ranking Member James Inhofe (R-OK):

Regarding S. 373, which is designed to ban the import and export of certain constrictor snakes, I believe we need to follow the process already established, which allows stakeholders to have input. Commonsense reforms are needed to prevent the proliferation, importation or breeding of species that would be harmful to ecosystems or human health and safety. We are setting a dangerous precedent of continuing to address these species outside of normal agency channels. Although I will not be offering an amendment today, I will support efforts on the floor to mitigate the negative effects to those snake owners and breeders who legally acquired their snakes, but through no fault of their own now find that their property is worth nothing.

S373 has been amended to include ONLY:

1. Python molurus
2. Broghammeras reticulatus
3. Python sebae
4. Python natalensis
5. Boa constrictor
6. Eunectes notaeus
7. Eunectes deschauenseei
8. Eunectes murinus
9. Eunectes beniensis

Does this mean what I think it means? Has the bill just been concentrated to the giant 9?? Are BP's off the list?


UPDATE: S373 Python Ban


Today the Senate Committee on the Environment & Public Works (EPW) held a business meeting on S. 373. Committee Chair Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) and Ranking Member Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) presided. After brief statements the committee held a mark up session on S. 373, to amend title 18, United States Code, to add constrictor snakes of the species Python genera to the Injurious Wildlife list of the Lacey Act. Senator Inhofe expressed concerns about the bill. Senator Ben Cardin (D-MD) offered an amendment to limit the scope of the bill to only the 9 snakes addressed in the USGS report on large constrictors. Senator Cardin further agreed to work with Senator Inhofe to improve the bill prior to a vote on the Senate floor. The amendment was passed by voice vote. S373 was then voted out of Committee by voice vote with Senator Inhofe registering a NO vote.

S373 has now passed committee. It can not become law until it is voted on and passed by the full Senate and House of Representatives. There is still much work to be done prior to the Python Ban becoming law. S373 in its current form in unacceptable to USARK and the Reptile Nation. We will continue to work with Senator Inhofe, Senator Cardin and the EPW Committee Staff to shape the future of this bill. Please make an appointment to visit with your Senator and express your concerns with S373. Everyone needs to step up and make contact with your Senator. Let USARK know about your meeting. It is time to step up our game and show Washington we are serious about this. Continue the good fight. The Reptile Nation thanks Senator Inhofe for his even handed treatment of our industry.

Following is the statement of Ranking Member James Inhofe (R-OK):

Regarding S. 373, which is designed to ban the import and export of certain constrictor snakes, I believe we need to follow the process already established, which allows stakeholders to have input. Commonsense reforms are needed to prevent the proliferation, importation or breeding of species that would be harmful to ecosystems or human health and safety. We are setting a dangerous precedent of continuing to address these species outside of normal agency channels. Although I will not be offering an amendment today, I will support efforts on the floor to mitigate the negative effects to those snake owners and breeders who legally acquired their snakes, but through no fault of their own now find that their property is worth nothing.

S373 has been amended to include ONLY:

Python molurus
Broghammeras reticulatus
Python sebae
Python natalensis
Boa constrictor
Eunectes notaeus
Eunectes deschauenseei
Eunectes murinus
Eunectes beniensis



usark.org

Boa Constrictor are still on that list...what about Boa Imperator? Frankly I don't want any of the large snakes banned, stop importation? Maybe but banned? No.

The species Boa constrictor includes all the subspecies, including boa constrictor imperator.

I too don't think any of them should be banned at this point. Like ive been saying more research needs to be done as far as conservation effforts for the Everglades. it's obviously cheaper to just ban them. But is that going to help in the end? I think it's important that they aren't too hastey with this whole banning thing. IT could make problems worse. But as far as this new update goes Am I reading this right?is this so far limited to just the 9 or are we in the same position.
Morgan

I dont think anything should be banned I dont think the importation should stop because we need new blood to introduce to our animals. I mean why dont they just set a number limit for the amount of animals imported each year not ban it. Also what strikes me as completly retarded is
Python molurus
Broghammeras reticulatus

Python natalensis - bob clark is the only person I am aware of that breeds these animals and its very seldom. I have only seen two people on public forums that own these particular animals.

Eunectes deschauenseei
Eunectes beniensis
As for these two I have searched for four years to find these animals. And was told several times that are none in our country. So I would love to find out how these pose a risk to the everglades. This proves that hsus does not reasearch anything and are just trying to get as many snakes on that list as they can

same thinkI got but mine was found in my spam folder for some reason.. but i do need to ask a idiot question the snake snake s list what their common names??

Maybe a stupid question... But what do they mean by "boa constrictor"... Does this include the red tail boa?

Yes, this would include all species of Boa constrictor as it is currently written.

1. Burmese and Indian Python
2. Reticulated Python
3. African Rock Python
4. South African Rock Python
5. Boa Constrictor
6. Yellow Anaconda
7. De Schauensees Anaconda
8. Green Anaconda
9. Bolivian Anaconda

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dianna

Maybe a stupid question... But what do they mean by "boa constrictor"... Does this include the red tail boa?

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Yep. All types

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dianna

Maybe a stupid question... But what do they mean by "boa constrictor"... Does this include the red tail boa?

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Boa constrictor, Boa constrictor
Boa constrictor amarali, Amaral's boa
Boa constrictor constrictor, Red-tailed boa
Boa constrictor imperator, Common northern boa
Boa constrictor longicauda, Tumbes Peru boa
Boa constrictor melanogaster, Ecuadorian boa
Boa constrictor nebulosa, Dominican clouded boa
Boa constrictor occidentalis, Argentine boa
Boa constrictor orophias, St. Lucia boa
Boa constrictor ortonii, Orton's boa
Boa constrictor sabogae, Pearl Island boa

Boa constrictor, Boa constrictor
Boa constrictor amarali, Amaral's boa
Boa constrictor constrictor, Red-tailed boa
Boa constrictor imperator, Common northern boa
Boa constrictor longicauda, Tumbes Peru boa
Boa constrictor melanogaster, Ecuadorian boa
Boa constrictor nebulosa, Dominican clouded boa
Boa constrictor occidentalis, Argentine boa
Boa constrictor orophias, St. Lucia boa
Boa constrictor ortonii, Orton's boa
Boa constrictor sabogae, Pearl Island boa
so all these are now on the list.

someone explain to me how any of these are dangerous to the habitat in the top 70% of the usa. where i gets to cold for them to survive past fall?

They aren't. And Florida is possibly the only area with a climate that can sustain all of them. I think we should kick them out of the Union.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by takagari

someone explain to me how any of these are dangerous to the habitat in the top 70% of the usa. where i gets to cold for them to survive past fall?

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Don't try to use common sense when it comes to anything the Gov does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pfan151

Don't try to use common sense when it comes to anything the Gov does.

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LOL true :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pfan151

Don't try to use common sense when it comes to anything the Gov does.

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you know that goverment and common sense don't go together that like calling a ford f150 a muscle car lol

thanks for the common names cause I know if the newpaper ever call and send the photographer out for pics of the snakes I want to have the common names about the band onhand.. I also want o poiint out that outside the corns and other snakes theses guys would not last past a summer and that most would end up as road kill or the wrong end of a shovel/shotgun around here if they went too far.

Just got off the phone attempting to set up meetings with elected officials, unfortunately this session is going to run long and the staff doesn't know what their local schedule will be. I was offered the opportunity to come to washington and meet with legislative staff and potentially my elected officials. I will take them up on that offer and travel to DC to voice my opposition. I am waiting for a call from the scheduler/deputy scheduler for my Senator and Congressman, I will keep you all updated.

I guess I'm really behind the times... Got lots of questions...

When did Retics get lumped into the genus Broghammeras?

When did Anacondas get split up into their own species rather then all being subspcies of Eunectes murinus?

When did African Rock pythons become two completely different species rather then two supspecies of Python sebae?

How widely accepted are these re-classifications amongst the majority of taxonomists?

What would happen if some taxonomist got a wild hair and decided that different populations of retics were really members of several closely related genus' and reclassified them under new taxa? Would certain populations then become legal again?

Quote:

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S373 has been amended to include ONLY:

1. Python molurus
2. Broghammeras reticulatus
3. Python sebae
4. Python natalensis
5. Boa constrictor
6. Eunectes notaeus
7. Eunectes deschauenseei
8. Eunectes murinus
9. Eunectes beniensis

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For those of you interested in doing a little reading, Here is a link to the USGS report that they are getting their list from:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2009/1202/pdf/OF09-1202.pdf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

Does this mean what I think it means? Has the bill just been concentrated to the giant 9?? Are BP's off the list?

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I don't mean to call you out but I'm getting a bit tired of ball breeders only concerned that their species aren't included. I don't own any of these species but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop fighting it now. The boa constrictor inclusion is very closely linked to ball pythons in the pet trade. Their inclusion hits very close to home. If we do not fight for our fellow giant constrictor keepers, they won't be there for us when HSUS turns on our species. And believe me, they will.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by takagari

someone explain to me how any of these are dangerous to the habitat in the top 70% of the usa. where i gets to cold for them to survive past fall?

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Same thing I said in another thread, it's not a US problem, it's a Florida Everglade problem, a very small piece of the American landscape with an extremely unique environment...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I guess I'm really behind the times... Got lots of questions...

When did Retics get lumped into the genus Broghammeras?

When did Anacondas get split up into their own species rather then all being subspcies of Eunectes murinus?

When did African Rock pythons become two completely different species rather then two supspecies of Python sebae?

How widely accepted are these re-classifications amongst the majority of taxonomists?

What would happen if some taxonomist got a wild hair and decided that different populations of retics were really members of several closely related genus' and reclassified them under new taxa? Would certain populations then become legal again?

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I think very few of these changes have actually been widely accepted by taxonomists. It's likely the USGS report only got its taxa information from a limited number of sources, likely the newest ones they could find, which aren't necessarily widely accepted. This list was basically taken directly from that report - in spite of the fact that all of these politicians have been informed that the report is biased, unscientific, and extremely poor basis for any legislation.

As far as I'm concerned, retics are still genus Python, and southern Afrocks are still Python sebae natalensis. I am not well-enough informed on anacondas to say any different about being the same species or subspecies. Actually I've yet to even see a photograph of a De Schauensee's or Bolivian anaconda, and know of none in the entire US.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Russ Lawson

I think very few of these changes have actually been widely accepted by taxonomists. It's likely the USGS report only got its taxa information from a limited number of sources, likely the newest ones they could find, which aren't necessarily widely accepted. This list was basically taken directly from that report - in spite of the fact that all of these politicians have been informed that the report is biased, unscientific, and extremely poor basis for any legislation.

As far as I'm concerned, retics are still genus Python, and southern Afrocks are still Python sebae natalensis. I am not well-enough informed on anacondas to say any different about being the same species or subspecies. Actually I've yet to even see a photograph of a De Schauensee's or Bolivian anaconda, and know of none in the entire US.

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I have pictures of them but I have looked for them for four years and have been told numerous times they are not in our country. If for some reason there are one or two in our country they are in a zoo somewhere they are not in our pet trade

Us ball breeders are concerned that ball pythons are off the list because many of us supplement our income by breeding these animals. My income from this makes up half of my yearly income, so I'm very MUCH concerned.

This does not mean we do not care about the boa breeders, or the burm breeders, or that we're going to stop fighting--it means we're relieved we aren't out on the street!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Us ball breeders are concerned that ball pythons are off the list because many of us supplement our income by breeding these animals. My income from this makes up half of my yearly income, so I'm very MUCH concerned.

This does not mean we do not care about the boa breeders, or the burm breeders, or that we're going to stop fighting--it means we're relieved we aren't out on the street!

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Don't get me wrong. I'm relieved as well. I'm just pointing out that there are some that sit on the sidelines because it doesn't affect them. I know that's not the case with all as it is not the case with myself. I know Ralph Davis has been pounding at these bills and he is pretty much 100% balls. So I wasn't trying to say it was everybody, just calling out those where this is the case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hypnotic Exotic

Don't get me wrong. I'm relieved as well. I'm just pointing out that there are some that sit on the sidelines because it doesn't affect them. I know that's not the case with all as it is not the case with myself. I know Ralph Davis has been pounding at these bills and he is pretty much 100% balls. So I wasn't trying to say it was everybody, just calling out those where this is the case.

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If you are referring to "Homegrownscales" .. Isn't that the girl who got the news report done on S373? lol

Whoa people. Look, I'm not saying all ball breeders are going to lay down on this now. I just fear that many will. I applaud those that continue the fight and I applaud Homegrownscales for her efforts so far. Let's just keep the fight going until this is defeated, that's all. I also hope that the colubrid, venomous, lizard, turtle and all other herp keepers are with us in this fight. We need everybody. The HSUS is very clear on their site that they oppose ALL reptiles as pets. If they aren't after your species right now, they will be. I think it is no mistake that this bill is much more narrow than what HR669 was. They learned their lesson and I believe the approach right now is to pick us apart and some in this hobby are falling right into that trap.

Florida doesn't seem to be the only range the large python can survive according to the USGS report. This was taken from the report: Due to the wide rainfall tolerance and extensive semitemperate range of P. molurus, large areas of the southern United States mainland appear to have a climate suitable for survival of this species (Fig. 4.5). United States areas climatically matched at present ranged up the coasts and across the south from Delaware to Oregon, and included most of California, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and South and North Carolina. By the year 2100, projected areas of potential suitable climate extend northward beyond the current limit to include parts of the States of Washington, Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York. Thus a substantial portion of the mainland United States is potentially vulnerable to this ostensibly tropical invader. In addition to the mapped areas of the U.S. mainland, the territories of Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, American Samoa, Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico would appear to have suitable climate. Areas of the State of Hawaii with elevations under about 2,500 m would also appear to be climatically suitable. Climate suitability is just one factor in the establishment of an invasive species, a necessary but not sufficient condition.

What I want to the know if the heck can a burm survive in the wild in the northern states? That sounds far fetched to me considering the length of the northern winters and the extreme low temps.
Frank

For one thing, as I understand it, they matched the Indian python, not specifically the Burmese. For another, the wishy-washy language in the text you quoted there points out that climate isn't the only factor involved, and other factors might prevent them from establishing in those areas. In other words, it's a load of BS.