Should you buy a male Dom animal?

I just saw a really nice Pin male for sale on another site, and it for some reason got me thinking, is it wise to buy a Spider or Pin male, since niether will produce a Super?

My thinking, and granted, I have only been thinking about it for about 3 minutes, is no, buy female Pins and Spiders, OR, male Spider or Pin crosses.

Any comments or thoughts? Am I way off base?

Dave

I have planed on buying single mutation females and multiple mutation males (that way the expensive animals can breed multiple females) and since i am just starting out the single mutation females are cheaper and dont have to drop huge money for a few years

It really depends on what you're trying to do. For me, the fun is getting the base morphs and producing the double and triple morphs myself--you never know what's gonna pop out of the egg.

However, if you're more into breeding for purposes of creating a nice quad morph or something, you might be better off purchasing a double or triple morph animal. ;)

Best of luck in whatever you decide!

I guess what I am asking is, is it wise to purchase a Spider male or Pin male, or, since a Pastel or Cinn male will produce a Super, is it smarter to buy Pin and Spider FEMALES, and males that will produce a Super, ie: Pastel, Cinn, Sulfur, Fire, Vanilla, etc.?

Dave

Buy them both and make spinners and then breed spinner to some bees or killer bees and keep on going.

co doms and doms are must have for some wicked combos.

Well look at it this way. lets just take a pastel and a spider

stats say 25% you will get a bumblebee. now you want to go for killer bee. If your male is the pastel, you will need a female and need 2-3 years b4 you can make a killer bee. if your female is the pastel, you will need a male bumble and only need less than a year b4 you can breed him back to mom to make killer bees.

My feelings? Although their prices have come down, both are "fan favorites" and there seems to be, to me, demand still in the pet market (as witnessed by members here who have them as pets, not breeders) to market the spider or pinstripe offspring from combo attempts.

I have two spider males myself (and two spider females).

As already stated, you can't make spinners without at least a male pin or a male spider. They still have plenty of value.

I'd go with a male bee or lemon blast - they arent THAT much more expensive than their single morph counterparts these days.

Buy a Spinner male, and quit thinking about it. That would be my advice. The Spinner male can be crossed with some cool recessives to make some amazing crosses, and you have the potential to produce either Pins or Spiders. That has been my theory at least. I have put alot of stock in my Spinner male doing great things this year.

To further answer your question, think about less common dom mutations than spiders and pins.. how about bananas and champagnes? They're certainly worth buying IMO.

The last I heard, there is such a thing as a super-pin. It just happens to look exactly like a pin--but since it carries 2 copies of the gene, it will produce all pins when bred to another animal. So, Pinstripe is a true dominant.

Spiders do NOT appear to ever produce a super, which means that spider is probably co-dominant with a lethal super form. Woma is also co-dominant with a lethal super, but the super hatches before it expires.

I have both a spider male an a woma male. My spider is paired with pretty normals to make more spiders--I'll be keeping all the females this year. My woma was paired with an exceptional dinker female to produce some drop-dead gorgeous womas.

You'll get more bang for your buck out of females of dominant or co-dom with lethal super morphs, but the males can make you as many females as you need. :)

In my opinion always get females of projects you want to begin. The females take longer to get to size, with a minimum of 2yrs, and you can always get a male later to catch up to breeding size in a year or sometimes less.

I will tend to spend my limited budget on males with the already stated logic that you want your more valuable snakes to be males because they can contribute to more clutches than any one female. I'd love to be able to start picking up combo males but for now would settle for my first of most morphs being male.

However II would consider spider and pinstripe quite differently for this discussion.

My first morphs where a pair of spiders. This summer I sold the male but kept the female. My thinking is that it seems likely to me that spider is homozygous lethal so I'm not too interested in doing spider X spider breedings. On top of that there is the wobble issue so I don't want to produce a lot of spiders and end up with a percentage of bad wobblers.

But pinstripe I understand has been proven dominant (I think spider would technically qualify as co-dominant if spider is a homozygous lethal mutation). I don't have any pinstripe yet so would like my first to be a male both from the valued animal perspective and I would also like to eventually have a pair of pinstripes to try to produce a homozygous pinstripe. Even if it doesn't look different a homozygous pinstripe would be a very valuable breeder producing 100% pinstripes.

Ok, I do not think I 'splained myself and my question well enough. First off, I am not in the market for a male Pin or Spider, I have females of both morphs and some combo females.

My question is, assuming you like Spiders and Pins, should you buy them as females, since niether can produce a Super, and buy males that will produce Supers? Or, assuming you have the funds, buy a Bee male or Blast male, since both combos can produce Pastel Supers?

I guess I am wondering if someone is just starting out, and has limited funds, and wants the following 5 morphs-Pastel, Pin, Spider, Cinn, and Sable, and again assuming they want a 1.4 or 2.3 group, is it smarter to get males that can produce a Super or does it matter?

A Spider male bred to a normal, Spider, and Pastel gives you (Spiders), (Spiders), and (Spiders, Pastels, and Bees).

A Pastel male bred to a normal, Spider, and Pastel gives you (Pastels), (Spiders, Bees, and Pastels), and (Pastels and Super Pastels).

Dave

I would think it would be better in that situation to get a male spider and male pin and female for the rest. My reasoning breed spider to pastel and cinn, breed pin to sable and cinn, poss of dual sired clutch plus you get bees, any females hold back sell the rest to finance other morphs and keep a male bee if produced. Breed bee male to pastel and cinn and bam super morphs, killer bee, made plus a killer tripple combo with huge breeding potential. That is my opinion on this. But at the same time I would also have 2-3 normal females/dinkers to play with as well.

I may yet not be following the question right but I'm still going to say it depends on the morph; for example the difference between pinstripe where you can have a homozygous even if it doesn't have a super look and spider which may well be homozygous lethal. What about the several morphs where it hasn't been proven that females can reproduce? For those a male may end up being your only option and a shot at homozygous might not be possible.

Thanks for the discussion guys. I just got thinking that, if everything else is equal, it makes sense to buy a male that can produce a Super. It looks like most disagree, and I am cool with that:)

Dave

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Originally Posted by EmberBall

Thanks for the discussion guys. I just got thinking that, if everything else is equal, it makes sense to buy a male that can produce a Super. It looks like most disagree, and I am cool with that:)

Dave

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I think I see what you're saying, and I do follow you although I also agree with others that it really depends on your goals.

I mean, it is nice to have the potential there for the male to make neato homozygous offspring. However, even dominant morphs with no exceptional-looking homozygous form can make really killer combos when combined with the right female, and in order to make the neat homozygous animal, you have to have a female that also carries the same gene.

So to me, I think it's more important that the male be a great-looking animal (better even than the girls, if possible, since he's gonna sire more offspring than they are) with a lot of genetic potential (either the rarest/nicest of the morphs I had, or some kind of combo). If he happens to make a neat homozygous form, that's great, but I almost look at the "super" forms as just another cool combo even though both genes are on the same allele. Ya know? ;)