What do you mean, I can't have both?!

Hey ya'll- No doubt, I'm not a familiar name. I joined in the late hours of yesterday, thanks to my dad, who found this spectacular site!

Here's a quick quip of information so that you know what I know:

When I was a toddler until I was about seven, my parents had a wide array of animals. They even had a few different tarantulas before I was born, snakes, lizards, you name it. I started growing up with a fat, beloved gray pet rat I named Nosey (had several others too), Rose knee (I believe) tarantula, geckos in my bedroom, and my stepmum had both a Burmese Python and a Ball Python. We had an iguana, too, and apparently a Savannah Monitor when I was around three. (Dad said it had a rather freakish fascination with me, and they got rid of it because they were afraid it'd nail me as a treat.)..And you can't forget all the little land & water turtles we've found and rescued from the road, lol. I used to catch garden snakes, growing up.

After that little critter era, they moved to the country. We've had many cats, a few dogs, and as many as sixteen horses at a time. Before the horse market crashed, my parents bred them, raised them here at the ranch, and took me along with them. Last year, we turned back to the smaller animals since nature has been picking off our aging, furry pets where the horses had to be sold. (That, and my horse-crazy stepmum turned to metal horses instead..) We got two pet hedgehogs after two weeks of (my, lol) extensive research.. I was eighteen at the time I contacted the breeder in the next state, spoke with her mostly through email though we had phone calls. She's still on my facebook friends, and still stay in contact.

So, although I don't have any personal experience with most reptiles, I do have experience with a wide array of animals, breeders, and one very beloved vet we've used since I can remember. You can speak critter with me. :D I'm also a lover of research- I'm a writer and a reader, and it does come in handy, lol. I've already learned a great deal about snakes, and have printed off papers from this site about what I'll need, what to look for, and other things. My vet also handles exotic pets, rather regularly..

Sounds like I should be good to get going, right? Lol, not so easy.

I'm having a difficult time choosing between a Ball Python and a Cornsnake.

I'm not at all afraid of either or most others, although anything that somewhat resembles a Coral snake makes me nervous, and the water snakes, those of which we have plenty. I'm located in southern IL, a couple hours from the IN border.

Some things I am considering:

My Weight VS Theirs
I am about 5'4, and might weigh 120LBS on a good day. I know that pythons are a great deal thicker, but both they and cornsnakes are the same length. I'm not afraid of being attacked, etc.- my concern is handling. I have read that (like many animals, even hedgehogs!) BPs get increasingly aggressive if not regularly handled. It wouldn't be a problem, but I'm wondering how much trouble I'd have picking them up, cleaning their cages, basic handling, lol.

Space
I'm planning on moving out in the spring; I won't be getting any other pet until at least summer, but I'm looking into fall. I know how big of a responsibility horses are- and to me, being inexperienced, snakes are no different. I am a full time worker with the local hospital (have been part time for three years, was my first job), so income is no threat or an issue. I know cornsnakes can have a smaller aquarium, but I've already found some promising 40gals that are only ten bucks off some 30 gals in pet stores in nearby towns. I guess I'm just wanting to throw this out there.. I'll be the only one really handling the snake, and I usually have a working-mid-day sort of schedule.

Temperment
99% of my friends are scared of snakes (despite most of them being bigger than me). I've heard that cornsnakes are very gentle, but hyper; I've read that BPs are lazy but can be temperamental.. And then, a new website, and it says the opposite about either. I like a little exploration and curiosity with my sitting at the computer or watching a movie.. I know, personalities vary by the snake. I want something that I can keep tamed easily enough to allow other people to touch it- I'm not at all going to be hasty with my selection. I'm going to be looking for a pet that is active, curious, but not showing aggression unless its a defense move for a hatchling.. And yes, I'm buying one young so I can raise it myself- something my parents learned with horses. But has anyone noticed any key things that helped let them know a snake was friendly or visa versa, besides the basic signs of interest, allowing to be touched, etc.?


This is probably going to answer my own question, but I've got a feeling I'm not going to know until I hold either species of snake at one pet store or breeder, or another. Thoughts, anyone? Extra advice quips? Its greatly appreciated. :D

I think you'll be happiest with a corn if you really want a snake that's active and curious in its enclosure. Balls tend to be nocturnal and active at night... not much to look at during the day. The size for handling is not much difference (compared to a burmese python or other large boids), and you can easily handle either adult snake by yourself. Their temperments you don't have much to worry about either. Baby corns might be a bit jumpy and nippy. If you ever are worried, use a snake hook to lift the critter out of its habitat, and wear latex gloves for a bit of courage, though tactile-ness with smaller snakes is then lacking. Most snakes settle down well after they are in your hands and realize you pose no threat.

And for your friends, let them scope them out on their terms. My snake fearful friends will look at them while I hold them, some will even touch them. One friend hasn't said it, but I think she won't come over now that I have more than 2 snakes. But I don't push the issue. LOL

As for space, you could start either snake in a 10 gallon (or, in my opinion, a 20g long - just be sure to place a couple hides in it for the critter's security). The ball would be very happy to live out its years in a 40 gallon if you stayed with glass terrariums, and a corn would be very happy in a 29 gallon tall. I like to offer my ratsnake (both corn and ratsnake are in the colubrid family "Elaphe") climbing branches, she digs it.

I think the corn might be hardier, but maybe I'm wrong. Bottom line, both are great snakes and you should pick out one you really like when you see it!

This is my opinion and its based on my experience, use it how you like. :) And have fun shopping!!

there is nothing as funny as seeing a 300lb tough guy get scared over a little snake :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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Originally Posted by nixer

there is nothing as funny as seeing a 300lb tough guy get scared over a little snake :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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That is sooooo true....lol!! I find that my friends come around eventually. They may not like them that much....but I have gotten all of them to pet them and at least stopping being such scardie cats.

Now...my son had a corn...actually he bought it for his Bio Dad for fathers day. Way before we had any snakes here. It was ok I thought. It was very active and fast!! Not something my son at the time could handle without supervision because it could get away pretty quickly. But he was at the time around 6 I think.

When it came time and he wanted a pet here we did a lot of research and ended up buying a ball python. My son is now 9 and pretty tiny..weighs about 55 lbs. I do not worry at all about him ever not being able to handle the snake. (we have 3 now because I fell in love w them) We have them out every day except for when they are shedding and for the 48 hrs after feeding. The only one right now that is a little grumpy or shy is our baby and she is only about 2 months old. Our others are big love bugs. Now our Bee did not start off like that....he was afraid of everything!! But a couple of months later...no problems. They can have quite the personalities. I love them because they are (to me) much more affectionate than what I experienced with the corn snakes. (now I use affectionate lightly) no they are not giving me snakey kisses...:rofl: Just not as active and crazy as what I witnessed with the corns.

If you get a ball python....I would suggest getting it as a baby....and raising it. I think you might feel a little more comfortable with it. That is what we have done with all of ours. However with that being said....it is what YOU feel more comfortable with.

Good luck and great story by the way!! We too had all kinds of animals when I was growing up. Including wild ones that would hang out. My Mom tells a story of when I was two and I came in and said I was playing with the black and white kitty. Apparently I was playing outside for hours with a skunk....:O With all of my animal adventures....wild or domesticated....the only thing I have ever been bitten by was a dog. Now pee'd on is another story....lol

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Originally Posted by nixer

there is nothing as funny as seeing a 300lb tough guy get scared over a little snake :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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This reminds me of something that happened about 20 years ago. I worked in the communications department and we found a baby black snake in a manhole. We took it back to the office and put it in the top drawer of the foreman's desk, knowing was terrified of snakes. He came in and opend the desk drawer. He's 6' 2" tall and weighed about 260 lbs, but that didn't prevent him from screaming like a 6 year old little girl, jumping up onto his desk and running from desk to desk before he jumped down and ran out the door to the office.

We all laughed about that for months.

Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by Kritters4Keeps

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HuH?? :confused: :confused:

Anyway.. Like some others have said. BPs are slower and become much more calm with time. Corns are fast and often just dont relax in your lap or on your shoulders like a ball will. If you are looking for a display snake only go with a corn. If you want a snake that will become your "buddy" as far as handling goes, get a BP.

Males stay smaller and generally thinner if size is an issue.

Hm, I have 40 ball pythons, which get handled when their cages are cleaned, when they are being weighed and checked over once in a while, and when I'm moving them around for breeding.

Their temperaments are largely the result of their genes. We have not spent a considerable amount of time handling them. They remain non-aggressive. We had one aggressive female, but sold her some time back.

Our largest girl weighs 3500 grams. That's under 8 pounds. So I don't think you'll have any problems with handling ball pythons.

Corns move faster--they're much more active, alert, and fidgety than ball pythons.

Hatchlings of both species can be nippy and very nervous, but they generally grow out of it as they get older. I think corns are more prone to stay nervous if not handled frequently than balls are, but I haven't worked very much with corns, so you'd have to talk to someone that does to be sure.

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Originally Posted by nixer

there is nothing as funny as seeing a 300lb tough guy get scared over a little snake :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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LMAO. This just happened to me last week at work. A baby garter snake looking for a place to brumate wandered into workplace and out of no where i hear a HUGE guy running, huffing and puffing screaming yelling snake. i got up and it literally was like 8" long. I was laughing sooo bad that he made a mess running.

as different as corn snakes and ball pythons are, the areas of concern that most people are worried about (size of the snake, size of the enclosure, temperment) are actually not different enough IMO for them to be any kind of deciding factor.

Both get to be in the "over 4 foot" range. Corns get longer but stay quite a bit skinnier. However, neither get big enough to ever pose a danger to you or any pets like dogs or cats. They both get big enough to be scary to snake-phobic people, but small enough to not be threatening to "snake-wary-but-not-phobic" people.

Size and type of caging is always a topic of debate but neither require giant cages. Cage size is pretty negligible for a single snake of either species unless you literally have no room for any pet. You'll find somewhere to keep it.

Temperment.. both are notoriously good for people new to snakes. Most I encounter are kitty-cat tame, with exceptions for those that are wild caught, never handled, or exceptionally young.

The differences between them that SHOULD be a deciding factor:

1) which one is 'cooler' to you? This isn't so much a logical 'well this one is prettier, but this one has a better body shape' question, but more of a gut-instinct first-reaction feeling. This is important, as it definitely is a basis for your interest in your pet. As strange as some people may find it, I do consider this to be the #1 thing to consider when choosing a snake. Neglect is the #1 killer of pets, and true interest is the #1 thing that transforms someone into a good pet keeper.

2) husbandry. They have different temperature, humidity, and to a smaller degree caging requirements and tolerances. They are different, and especially in dry climates BPs are harder keep adequate humidity levels. Corn snakes on the other hand are pretty bulletproof. They have a wide range for temperature tolerance (with easily established ideal temperatures), and pretty much do well at any humidity level.

3) activity: BPs are nocturnal, you will rarely see them out of their hides during the day. Corn snakes will be seen during the day at times.

4) aesthetics: consider the paintjobs that you can afford and the overall look of the snake. Do you want a pink and orange snake? Get a amelanistic corn. Do you want a fatter yellow and white snake? Get an albino BP.

All in all you can't go wrong with either choice. I've had both and adore both, and highly recommend them as pets.

Another thing to consider: although your thread title was in jest, do go ahead and look at your funds, you might find that you really can get both! Both snakes can be surprisingly affordable to aquire, and with some tricks of the trade they can be affordable to house as well. You can find each snake for under $50 easily. Setups can be as cheap as $15 including hides. Heating and heat control then are the biggest costs.

Haha, awesome. :) Thanks for replying so quickly!!

I was also thinkin I might wana add a few thoughts:

By the friend thing, I'd be the only one to carry it around an such. I jus don't want something that's going to be a brat with people it doesn't know..

I don't know if I mentioned it or not, but I will more than likely get it from a breeder.. I don't really trust pet shops.

I plan on putting something in the aquarium that smells like me like we did with the hedgehogs.. Seems to help them recognize scent.

Also in case I get something from one of you guys, idk if I mentioned this either but the snake will be fed frozen/thawed.. I won't have anywhere to keep live food, an I doubt our tiny pet shop will be able to help much.. I know more about hedgies than they do, lol. But they're sweet, good people.. We used to ride with them..

Thanks about the note that males are smaller- I've been thinkin about gettin a boy. Are the males more calm than the females? And what about maturity/breeding season attitude changes?

I'm glad I've got like 3 months to think and plan.. The aquarium'll be big no matter what- dad and I have a thing about decorating cages. :)

There are no temperment issues related to sex. A snake will not be more bitey just because it is a male or female.

The only difference is size. Female BPs are noticeably bigger in particular than males.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

HuH?? :confused: :confused:

Anyway.. Like some others have said. BPs are slower and become much more calm with time. Corns are fast and often just dont relax in your lap or on your shoulders like a ball will. If you are looking for a display snake only go with a corn. If you want a snake that will become your "buddy" as far as handling goes, get a BP.

Males stay smaller and generally thinner if size is an issue.

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Lol! Sorry about that- I was mobile, and trying to find a quick reply thing.. The page didn't reload or anything, so I didn't realize it actually posted something. xD I had to opt off the viewing of avatars/signatures/etc. just so the actual thread would load.. And I thought blackberries were so cool. *sniff* lol. xD

Gaahh. I want to handle something! Lol. Its killin me not knowing.. I love research, but nothing beats personal experience!

Afterthought: As far as the BP handling/buddy versus active any time of the day corns.. I'd probably be more likely to mess with it in the evening or later night, at least for the next year or so. I usually work anywhere from 9:30-6pm, 3-11pm, and the occassional 6:30-3pm shift.. I'd think about getting a tarantula more, but I know I'd be too tempted to handle it. Guess I'll just have to spend a few hours in some pet stores. xD

Plus, always remember that a reptile is not a mammal--even though hedgehogs are on the lowest end of the mammalian scale, they're still geniuses compared to all snakes, and ball pythons are definitely not near the top of the snake IQ chart. Corn snakes are probably a bit brighter, but that intelligence is often applied toward finding a way out of their cage (lol).

Snakes do have personalities, but they tend to be more simplistic than mammalian personalities. Their emotions are also more primitive--more so than a hedgehog's even. A snake will never express affection for its owner, or for anything, for that matter. Snakes don't feel love or hatred. They do not care for their offspring, and come together only to mate or hibernate. A female snake removed from her eggs does not search for them for even a split second afterward. (In fact, some of my girls seem to look forward to it, and are ready to eat within the hour, lol).

They do appear to experience curiousity, fear, contentment, interest/excitement, and anger. They will have moods--sometimes they will be outgoing and want to explore, other times, they will want to be left alone, and may warn an intruder off with a hiss.

To them, we are a source of anxiety and stress, but after a while, their stress level will decrease as they become used to us, and they will slowly come to realize that we make a good basking area. ^_^

They are slow to learn, but once a routine is set, it can be hard to break. They are driven by extraordinarily strong instinctive impulses, which are often immuteable, so must be respected.

The hedgehog was a good animal to use to introduce folks to what it's like to keep a reptile. Hedgehogs, being so primitive and antisocial, also lack many of the characteristics that most other mammals have. But they're still comparatively complicated.

What goes on in the mind of a snake is, well...just enough to fascinate us. I don't think that placing your scent in the snake's cage is likely to make much difference to it at all. The scent is only one tiny aspect of what it will need to get used to in order to be comfortable with handling.

Also, rereading the previous posts- my gut likes the BPs, lol.

And, I totally understand. The smaller of the sisters, we lost to a disease called Wobbly Hedgehog Syndrome, but she was a very friendly, curious girl who enjoyed biting at anything shiny- whether or not it was attached to the hand holding her, lol. Mine, on the other hand, has always been timid, and most certainly anti-social; the one we lost would be running around as if begging for attention the second she saw someone come in the room. Very active creature, where mine comes out usually around three or four am, hisses and huffs at the smallest sound or shadow (or even vast changes in the radio sounds) and almost seems skeptical, lol. She does register me, and is almost friendly with my dad sometimes, if I'm holding her. Usually, she's happy just to sit there as long as your hand/lap/arm doesn't feel like solid ground... I love little Honey to death, lol.

I also see what you're saying about putting something in with my scent in the idea of the snake getting used to me; well, it was an idea, anyways, lol. Honestly, it'll be nice to have something that doesn't have to be there every second in dependence- I'm used to moderating temperature with the 'hogs. If it gets too chilly- usually below 75F -they will try to hibernate, which slows down their system too fast and will kill them.. Our WHS-loss did that often when she started getting ill, so I moved her into my (usually 80F) room with her sister.. Checked on her every few hours when I was home, and picked her up to discover she had passed. Quite a nasty shock which made me go bawling to daddy, lol.. Sad. :tears:

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Originally Posted by Kritters4Keeps

Also, rereading the previous posts- my gut likes the BPs, lol.

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After reading your post about your work hours and this post, I think that a ball python should be in your future. :)

Just be keen to ask the owner/breeder you buy from if the animal readily takes f/t if you don't have access to live rodents. I feel that in general corn snakes will much more easily take f/t. But I also have 3 hatchling ball pythons that were feed live prey and very easily have accepted f/t for me. :banana:

After you get your first snake, you can always go to the next show that comes near you and see if there's a tarantula breeder and you could pick up a spider. They are low maintenance, don't need much space, but are a whole 'nother enchilada. Plus, with many of them the males only live a couple of years (can be good), and females can live upwards of 10+ years.

And yes, well, the snakes will associate scent... if your fingers smell like mice, snakey might think they are mice. :D But the rest is like wolf already shared - the shirt might be a nice place to hide but that's about it! ;)

Oh, and I should forewarn you... snakes (reptiles in general) are like horses. They are addicting, and if you can afford multiples, you'll easily get more. Except that the financial upkeep on snakes is much cheaper than horses. So don't be surprised if in a couple years you have more snakes than you can count on one hand!

I keep forgetting to say condolences about your hedgie that you lost. I can get one-track minded sometimes. All I can say is that I'm glad you are one of the stronger people that can keep on with owning pets after the loss of an animal. Those that can't continue to own pets after a loss of one, baffle me. I could never live without pets.

Cowgirl- Lol! I hear that! And, thank you.. Its still weird not to see her cage or her trying to climb up the bars to see who's there.. She went crazy over these hedgie food pellets we finally bought, made of meal worms and things like that.. Little miss Honey, however, won't touch them. Hedgehogs. :rolleyes: Crazy as snakes! Lol.


I've also been looking around more, and have found snakes such as egg eating (speaking of which, I need to see what kind of eggs our grocery stores carry..), and blue tongued skinks- those run wild around here, and I never realized it, lol.

Do you guys know of anyone who has an egg eater? I can't find much information on them besides the basic diet, care, and feeding and what not.