New Yellowbelly

Okay heres the deal. My brother wanted a snake so I mentioned the fact that I am wanting to breed my Ivory so we both go to our local reptile shop. I take in my Ivory instantly the guy is blown away and as soon as I told him I got the snake for free he really was blown away, cursing up a storm, lol. Okay anyways he said he can get us a Yellowbelly for $150, not a proven breeder but none the less has the genes to produce more ivories. By the way this all happened last week. So I ask to him to order the snake. Today he calls me up and tells me to head over to the store. He's telling me that the guy forgot to bring up the snake. I was pissed but more disappointed. Then, the best thing happens to me. Instead of blowing me off and sending me on my way he pulls a bag from under the table. He pulls out this gorgeous Yellowbelly. He's telling me that the Yellowbelly is from a proven line and that it has produced some nice looking patterns and some very nice looking Ivories. Get this, the snake actually belongs to Amir Soleymani from Miami and that it was a snake from one of his private collections. I was in awe.

Now the part that you all are waiting for.

He's got some nice looking alien heads and flares.

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/4516/img0041g.jpg
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/8493/img0042ov.jpg
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/4397/img0043j.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7311/img0044u.jpg
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/3597/img0045v.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1792/img0046by.jpg
http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/4302/img0047f.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6236/img0048fc.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/668/img0049ug.jpg
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5259/img0050kn.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6931/img0051yw.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/568/img0052ex.jpg
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/9349/img0053i.jpg
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/9083/img0054sd.jpg
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3810/img0056hr.jpg
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/305/img0068jh.jpg
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4198/img0077yh.jpg
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/9828/img0078o.jpg
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/8290/img0079c.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2695/img0080na.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8012/img0086g.jpg

Hi,

How much do you trust the guy?

Because I admit I am far from the best at telling but I don't see the normal belly border pattern on a yellowbelly or the flames. :worry:

I would be asking Amir about that snake to be honest.

What sexes are both snakes and did you double check?

I'd also be kicking myself for completely blowing off quarantine. We recommend it for a reason - and ivories are not exactly a cheap snake to replace if they catch something and die. :(

Sorry to be such a buzzkill. :(


dr del

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dr del

I'd also be kicking myself for completely blowing off quarantine.

---

As would I.....doubly


Especially with a pricey snake like the Ivory..........

Unfortunately I am with the other posters it does not look to be a YB, but with better pictures one might be able to be more sure.

Uumm sorry i dont think thats a YB :colbert:.You are asking for trouble placing a new pet store snake around your other snake also :weirdface

Have to say the same... a yellowbelly from a pet store that came straight from Amir? Not sure I am buying it.

And the one you wanted did not come in, but somehow one was secured from a top breeder?

I have a rack full of het orange hypos that look more like YBs than that snake does.

Sorry not to be a carmudgeon... but I would look at that snake, and without photo documentation and a genetics guarantee I would not have purchased it as a YB.

And no QT, especially on a snake coming in from a pet store that has been flipped... YIKES.

Bruce

EDIT: Even with documentation... I would have got one that looks like a YB. Regardless of their combo potential they are a really sharp snake on their own.

Here is what a real YB looks like. http://www.ballpython777.com/yellowb...llowbelly.html

Hi,

Just to clarify something.

I asked how much you trusted the seller for more than one reason - it's worth bearing in mind that he may have been mislead about the snake as well rather than be trying to knowingly cheat anyone.


dr del

Sorry, but I have to say, I see nothing on that snake that resembles a YB either. From the pattern, all the way to the belly - even the head marking doesn't look right.

Here's my YB - see the flames?

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...e/IMG_6020.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...le/robinyb.jpg

And the belly pattern looks nothing like yours.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...e/IMG_6022.jpg

I also agree it was a grave mistake not to quarantine that animal and expose your ivory to it. :(

Okay thank you all for your inputs. I hope to God that you guys are wrong, the guy that I got the snake from swares on Amir's snakes. He was talking about some Leusistics and other morphs with me. I was talking to him for quite a bit and he seems to know his stuff.

I took more pics of the snake.
I do see what you guys are talking about. I can see some of that two tone fade on mine as well but its washed out by the flash. My camera isnt the best by the way.

http://img29.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=img0001kx.jpg

I'm not a pro at picking out yellowbellies, but, that could be a very subtle one. The second pics look more like one than the first pics. I don't know about the belly shots though. I hope it proves out.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/4581/img0010zc.jpg
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/4228/img0009gd.jpg
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4674/img0016zsh.jpg
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/2193/img0025.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9456/img0033v.jpg

He told me that this snake produced 3 Ivories in his last clutch.

Looks totally normal

im taking him back to the shop. im going to see what the deal is. he assured me its a yellow belly. i dont see why they cant be honest with me. these guys dont seem like the type that would. they have been in business over 10 years.

Hey, I sorry to be saying this like everyone else is, but it really does look like a normal. The belly pattern looks exactly like my '08 normal female's does, and the back pattern looks extremely similar to my female's back pattern. So, you may have just gotten a normal. YBs are supposed so have a lot of flames, more reduced patterns than a normal, and of course their belly pattern isn't a clear white color.

Could it be possible that it is mixed morph type. I would be stunned if he sold me a normal knowingly for $150, like I said this appears to be a reputable dealer. If this were the case then I would constitute this as theft in my opinion. I don't know, you guys are really making me feel like i got shafted, when I so badly want to give this guy the benefit of the doubt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ralphdp21

Could it be possible that it is mixed morph type. I would be stunned if he sold me a normal knowingly for $150, like I said this appears to be a reputable dealer. If this were the case then I would constitute this as theft in my opinion. I don't know, you guys are really making me feel like i got shafted, when I so badly want to give this guy the benefit of the doubt.

---

Well ask for a receipt from Amir when they supposably bought it.If they can not produce a document of the sale then i would say you have your proof they shafted you with a lie.They have to have something showing what they paid for it for there records ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ralphdp21

Could it be possible that it is mixed morph type.

---

No :colbert:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joepythons

Well ask for a receipt from Amir when they supposably bought it.If they can not produce a document of the sale then i would say you have your proof they shafted you with a lie.They have to have something showing what they paid for it for there records ;)

---

Good point. Im going to see what I can do. Im convinced this guy is legit but im going to keep an open mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ralphdp21

Good point. Im going to see what I can do. Im convinced this guy is legit but im going to keep an open mind.

---

Well pet stores are open to make money for the owner.I have known of some that if you dont know what you are doing they will sell you anything to make a buck.

id say you were ripped off.and how did you get a free ivory?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by traitor

id say you were ripped off.and how did you get a free ivory?

---

That's what I'm wondering too LOL

i wouldn't take a yellowbelly even if was free.. their so boring.. for the great prices you guys in America get i would defiantly shoot for something with a little more color to it..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adam_degel

i wouldn't take a yellowbelly even if was free.. their so boring.. for the great prices you guys in America get i would defiantly shoot for something with a little more color to it..

---

I don't really know where you're coming from with this...look at the one that Robin posted. The combos are also out of control...SPYBs and SuperSripes can't be made without YB's

as for the OP's question...I've got to follow everyone else, it looks like a normal.

I have to agree with everyone on the normal thing..but most importantly (for your animals sake) PLEASE, quarantine every new addition! It really can come back and bite you in the butt - and eventually, if you continue not doing it, it will..

why not look up amir's number and ask him personally ... thats what i would do cause that looks a little to much like a normal ... and also a yellow belly from amir most likely wouldnt be selling for $150 ... i think you got the holiday shaft my friend

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adam_degel

i wouldn't take a yellowbelly even if was free.. their so boring.. for the great prices you guys in America get i would defiantly shoot for something with a little more color to it..

---

When I pop out a yellow belly clown you may not be so sure of that statement :P
Sadly it looks totally like a normal, especially the belly shot.

in my opinion you should take the animal back and ask for a refund without making any waves. Just say you are not happy and don't feel comfortable breeding your female to this animal.
:salute::salute:

Looks like a normal to me, though I wouldn't be considered an expert by any stretch of the imagination...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

When I pop out a yellow belly clown you may not be so sure of that statement :P
Sadly it looks totally like a normal, especially the belly shot.

---

i'm talking just a yellowbelly.. by itself.. doesnt get me going.. its just my opinion.. its like those people who drool over a banana.. $25,000.. but does anyone want it as an adult with all those black spots all over it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adam_degel

i'm talking just a yellowbelly.. by itself.. doesnt get me going.. its just my opinion.. its like those people who drool over a banana.. $25,000.. but does anyone want it as an adult with all those black spots all over it?

---

Yes, by itself the yb isn't a "stunner" but it isn't blah either, at least a good one isn't.
The great thing about the yellow belly is it's affordability, and it makes some hot combo's(IMO).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adam_degel

i'm talking just a yellowbelly.. by itself.. doesnt get me going.. its just my opinion.. its like those people who drool over a banana.. $25,000.. but does anyone want it as an adult with all those black spots all over it?

---

Sorry to thread jack a bit, but am I the only one who thinks those black spots are really cool? That was always my favorite part about Bananas.

Cheers,
-Matt

I just thought it was me being new to this because I wasn't seeing the YB thing.

That being said...I might be new but you should follow the quarrentine thing. Even if I buy from the same breeder that my others are from....I still do the Q everytime. Just becareful!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adam_degel

i wouldn't take a yellowbelly even if was free.. their so boring.. for the great prices you guys in America get i would defiantly shoot for something with a little more color to it..

---

YB's happen to be my favorite morph - yes by themselves. I love subtle morphs!! I now have 2 yellowbellies and I plan on breeding them once they're old enough. I like Fires a lot too.

You probably have never seen a *nice* yellowbelly. The lower-end examples resemble normals, but the nice ones blow me away! Robin has a really nice example actually, you should search for her picture thread on her yellowbelly ;)

Check out my male YB... now if you don't think this is a sweet looking snake, then we'll just have to agree to disagree - I love his coloring and flames.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...keupdated4.jpg


To the OP: I think it's normal too!

Doesn't look like a YB to me I'm afraid.

Here's a pic of mine, just as an example (since everyone else is doing it too! haha)
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...2/DSC00481.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...2/DSC00491.jpg

meh.. :weirdface

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adam_degel

meh.. :weirdface

---

This is why ball pythons are so kewl, there is a color or a pattern for every taste :P

I agree, I love my yellowbelly. I think he's absolutely gorgeous. I'm not thrilled with clowns--that's my thing. Everyone has morphs they like and dislike. But I'm not going to say there are no good clowns, just that I don't care for the morph. lol

I agree, that animal is suspicious, he doesn't look like a yellowbelly to me, either. The only way I would accept him as a yellowbelly is if he either has been PROVEN as a yellowbelly (by producing an ivory offspring), or he has an ivory parent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

This is why ball pythons are so kewl, there is a color or a pattern for every taste :P

---

true dat

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adam_degel

i wouldn't take a yellowbelly even if was free.. their so boring.. for the great prices you guys in America get i would defiantly shoot for something with a little more color to it..

---

If I could get ANY ball python for free, I'd go for it. I like YB's because they look cool and make awsome offspring, Ivory happens to be my favorite,though. You gotta give YB's credit though, I never grow tired of how cool my normal looks. And he looks, well, normal.

Wow Icygirl.....your YB is HOT HOT HOT! Just beautiful colors!! :bow:

So what happened?

Quote:

---

Its like those people who drool over a banana.. $25,000.. But does anyone want it as an adult with all those black spots all over it?

---

I actually like the black spots. Just not for a thousand bucks a spot. :P

Okay I attempted to take more pics of the snake. Hopefully these are better. I used a 10 megapixel camera.

http://img709.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=dscn0560.jpg

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8314/dscn0608.jpg
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9296/dscn0612j.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9087/dscn0631.jpg
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5438/dscn0640k.jpg

Still not a YB - the belly isn't a YB belly.

No matter what pics you show its never going to be a YB :colbert:.

Okay guys I find it to be rediculous that this guy KNOWINGLY sold me a snake that wasnt what he said it was. He's been selling bp morphs for years, I would assume he knows what he's doing. He sat with me for a good 2 hours with my brother explaining to us what makes him a yellowbelly. By the way, Amir is his boss, and Amir is the one that delievers the snakes from Miami. I never had contact with Amir but I looked up info on him and he seems to be the real deal. Aparanatly Amir transports hundreds of bp morphs accross FL. Granted the coloration I see online on some of these snake are just rediculous, but he told me that Yellowbelly's can be produced with very subtle color differences. He assured me this. (I'll propably get crap from you people for saying this) Don't tell me that he purposely sold me a normal one. If its happened to you guys then sorry, but this snake clearly shows indication of colors that I don't see in a normal. I just cant stand sit here an accept the fact that he tried to screw me. It makes not one ounce of sense.

By the way to those people that keep calling this snake a normal. It definatly isnt a normal. I had 2 normals before this supposed normal and I must say his colors are much lighter and honestly the belly shows more shades of yellow in comparison to my prior bps. My two cents.

So if in fact this snake is NOT a yellowbelly would you say that this was?
http://img14.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=22348803.jpg

How bout these?
http://market.kingsnake.com/image/990954.jpg
http://market.kingsnake.com/image/990956.jpg

So Amir now runs pet shops :confused:.This is ANOTHER one of those threads that the OP does not like the truth and refuses to admit they got jacked :weirdface.O well who cares have fun with your NORMAL ball python :gj:

Hi,

Actually I thought I read Amir used to run a pet shop but had recently sold it?

I know I usually get these thigns wrong but wasn't it called sunset pythons? Or was that someone else. :oops:

My recommendation to send the pictures to Amir stands - I know there are some subtle yellowbellies but that seems a bit too subtle for me, personally, not to want confirmation from a third party not the person I bought it from.

As I said he doesn't need to be intentionally lying to you to be wrong about whether it is a yellowbelly or not.

Either way when you breed it to your ivory you will find out. Be a bit late to complain but you will find out one way or another.


dr del

I agree that the snakes colors and pattern are something unusual, but the belly does not read as a Yellowbellies belly. I don't think anyone here meant for you to take any of their comments personally. People are just calling it as they see it, and trying to help you out in not getting swindled, potentially that is. I would definitely say yes to the last snake you linked being a Yellowbelly. It is also a good example of a subtle belly, only light speckling, but it's clearly there. If he has that snake for sale, why not ask for a trade? If he truly believes the snake he sold you to be a Yellowbelly, he should have no issues trading. Again, no one here is attacking you in any way, we're all just trying to be helpful! Good luck in whatever you decide to do!

Cheers,
-Matt