Ivory x Fire

Okay I have an Ivory that I would love to breed. I understand that the Fire morph can produce a BEL if bred with another Fire. But what would happen if I breed a Fire with an Ivory? Is there a chance that I can produce a BEL or will it just be some mix between the two along with norms?

The Ivory is a male and the Fire is a female.

You will get a Fire Y.B. combo. Kevin Stoltz (KMS) made a couple this year.

Yep. Each egg will have a 50% chance of being Fire Yellowbelly and a 50% chance of being a Yellowbelly.

Okay, I'm still a novice when it comes to breeding. So I want to make sure that I understand.

The Yellow Belly x Fire morph can NOT produce BELs.
An Ivory may be produced just like the parent.
No other morphs can be produced unless they are Het. for that morph.

Correct me if I'm wrong?


I found his site with pics but I dont think he's got any pics of the mix.
http://www.kmsreptiles.com/id17.html

If anyone has a photo of one would you please post it.

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Originally Posted by ralphdp21

The Yellow Belly x Fire morph can NOT produce BELs.

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Both Yellowbelly and Fire are the heterozygous form of separate codominant genes (they carry one allel for the gene). The homozygous form of Yellowbelly is Ivory while the homozygous form of Fire is a Black Eyed Luecisitic. Neither are allelic, and neither are in the Blue Eyed Luecistic gene complex which is a bunch of morphs that are all allelic and produce Blue Eyed Lucys. So no, a Black Eyed Lucy (or even a Blue Eyed Lucy) will not be produced by crossing an Ivory and a Fire.

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Originally Posted by ralphdp21

An Ivory may be produced just like the parent.

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Only if each parents carries at least one allel for the gene (so at least Yellowbelly x Yellowbelly). No Ivories will be produced from an Ivory x Fire pairing.

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Originally Posted by ralphdp21

No other morphs can be produced unless they are Het. for that morph.

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The Het form of codominant genes are expressed physically (Yellowbelly and Fire). An Ivory (Super Yellowbelly) will produce all Het Ivories (Yellowbellies) since it will pass on either one of its allels for that gene. A Fire (Het Black Eyed Lucy) will either pass on the Fire allel or Normal allel that it has for that gene. So an Ivory x Fire pairing will produce all Yellowbellies, half of which will also be Fires (50% Yellowbelly Fires, and 50% Yellowbellies).

Okay excellenet. By far the best explanation I have read, but I do have one final question.
What would be best to breed with my Ivory to produce cleaner Ivories?

Fire x fire = black eyed lucys

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Originally Posted by greghall

Fire x fire = black eyed lucys

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Yes, i am aware of that.

Any suggestions on what would be best to breed with my current ivory to get the cleanest looking ivory?

Okay I have found for sale a PASTEL YELLOW BELLY 50% HET ALBINO Female and I am curious as to what she can produce if bred with the Ivory.

Based on LGL's comments, I am to assume, Albinos, Ivories, Pastels, and Norms.

Yes, No, Maybe?

25% Ivory Pastel 25% Het Albino
25% Ivory 25% Het Albino
25% Yellowbelly Pastel 25% Het Albino
25% Yellowbelly 25% Het Albino

You won't magically form Albinos out of nothing, but the likelihood of the offspring being Het Albino would reduce. 50% Het Albino means you have a 50% chance of the snake being Het Albino and its created through breeding a 100% Het Albino to another snake.

Okay I see. Now I get it. Sweet guys, thanks for the clarification. I know you guys like eye candy so ima post a pic of the snake being sold. The asking price is $350 shipped, seems like a good deal.

http://market.kingsnake.com/image/998282.jpg

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Last edited by dr del; Today at 12:09 AM. Reason: hotlinking I'm afraid but a link to it is fine ;-)

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Sorry about the hotlinking. Was not aware that it is forbidden on this forum.

I would think a pastel YB female would be a great choice of mate for your ivory.

If it were me, I think I'd probably just forget about the 50% possible het albino part, though. All that means is that there is a 50% chance that she might be het albino. Unless you have any plans to try and prove her out using an albino male, you're never even going to know if she is or not. You could call the babies "25% possible het albino," but that always seemed like a stretch to me ... I think I'd maybe mention it in passing as an added bonus to buyers of her offspring, but unless you proved her out, I wouldn't put much stock in it beyond that.

That's just me, though -- I'm not a huge fan of possible het anything, just 'cause I always like to know what I'm breeding. To me, her being a nice looking pastel YB would be plenty of reason to pick her as a good mate for an ivory :)

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Originally Posted by ralphdp21

Yes, i am aware of that.

Any suggestions on what would be best to breed with my current ivory to get the cleanest looking ivory?

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as far as I know they are not compatable with lesser russo or mojave,Russos make the cleaness white snakes .

to clean it up i think you just stuck with pastels or fires. enchi might do something intresting to a ivory, clean it up and mayb do something with the pattern. but I've never herd of it being done.

Are you trying to get an all white snake, or what?

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

Are you trying to get an all white snake, or what?

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I think hes trying to reduce the yellowing that happen as they grow up

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I think hes trying to reduce the yellowing that happen as they grow up

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Exactly

Note: I also went to my local pet store and I found a Yellowbelly compatible with my Ivory for $250. Good price? No pics cause he has to get it shipped first but he said it can produce Ivory no problem.

The Ivory actually gets whiter with age, not more yellow

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Originally Posted by FIREball

The Ivory actually gets whiter with age, not more yellow

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got pics of a adult? i've never seen one not yellow out

They're supposed to have that yellow stripe, and be white, you should desire that in your snake if you're working with Ivories. If you want a white snake go for something in one of the two BEL complexes.

Here is one of my adult..

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...t/IMG_1396.jpg

:/ I always kind of wished the stripe was larger and a higher contrast, gorgeous though it is, it could be cooler...

gotta say its nice to be proven wrong sometimes, thats one of the nicest adults I've seen. looks like it got grey instead of yellow

Really, I thought that was bog standard for an Ivory.

Post a pic of yours.