That was the last time! I hope...

Let me start off by saying that I love all animals equally. Actually I take that back, I love all animals minus one species equally. Homo-sapiens I don't like very much on average. Anyway, I have a dog (Micha), a cat (Ping), a bunny (Tater), and two birds (Ice and Scatter) currently (Meaning 5 days ago).

Late Monday night I became the proud owner of a ball python (Zeek). Really the primary reason this happened is because everything was free. Turns out it wasn't because I had to spend 60 (overpriced) dollars to bring his habitat up to a minimum on the first day, but I was happy to do it. I feel kind of racist saying this but this is the first time I am responsibly taking on ownership of a reptile (like it's something different and not equal to a mammal). I caught a lot of wild lizards and snakes as a kid and brought them home, though I don't think I kept any of them through an entire lifespan. In general reptiles require different living conditions than mammals and what I've had around the house was always geared towards mammals making a reptile a nearly new financial endeavor putting it aside till later (indefinately).

Zeek came to me on an empty stomach, having been about two weeks since he last ate (he was being given a -large-small rat every two weeks by the previous owner). Judging by how people on this forum feed their snakes, I think he's been hungry for two years. While I was buying things for his tank I was looking for a rat to feed him also, no luck. That night I found a mom+pop store nearby that had good reviews to get one. I went there the next day and bought a small rat for $3.99 which seems high compared to what some of you say you pay but at this point I feel like I just need to get him something and I can figure out a good source before the next feeding. They taped it up in a brown cardboard box. I bring it home and Zeek's in his hide so I don't want to disturb him and I go to work.

When I get home (keep in mind this is about 4am yesterday morning) he was half way out of his hide, or half way to bed as I saw it. The previous owners put him in the bath tub to feed him and I am planning on doing the same, so I didn't want to force the issue. I did think about feeding him in the tank and I opened the rats box to try...I don't know, I couldn't fathom feeding this innocent looking rat to this snake. I tried to grab the rat and it squeeled and ran around the tiny box for it's life. =( I put some food and a chew toy in the box for my new pet rat, Lunchbox, and went to bed. I thought that was a fitting name because I bought him with the purpose of him being a meal.

So now it's Thanksgiving and I wake up because it's hot and I am sweating my butt off, not because I am rested and ready to get out of bed. My room is really hot and I get out of bed and immediately look at the temp gauge in Zeek's tank. 97 degrees!!! Holy crap!! He's against the wall of the cool side and I panic thinking I need to cool this situation off. I pull him out of the tank (for the first time by the way) and I put him into the bath tub, where I was planning on feeding him.....

I go and grab the box that Lunchbox is in and bring him into the bathroom. I set Lunchbox down on the toilet seat and sit on the tub between them looking back and forth. I still can't imagine giving Lunchbox over to Zeek and I say, "You're going to have to come out of that tub and get him out of the box." I go to clean Zeek's cage, cleaning out the feces and scrubbing his water bowl. When I come back I think he heard me! He was coming up over the side of the tub right near the box that Lunchbox was in.

I sat down again now trying to rationalize feeding Lunchbox to Zeek. "This would happen in the wild." "My brothers cat brings home birds and rodents all the time." "The rat was born to be food." (That though makes me think about all the animals I've eaten...) So I think about Lunchbox's future life, I'd have to buy something for him to live in and other things to make him comfortable. I think about the life he's been living, treated as though he would be food. Would he have the tempermant of an animal breed to be a pet? Finally I think about the fact that one day I would have to deal with Lunchbox's death. I've had quite a few hamsters who live for a year or two. Would it be any easier then?

Logic tells me to feed Lunchbox to Zeek... It takes me a little while to grab Lunchbox by the tail and bring him into the tub. I hold his tail till Zeek is on the hunt which takes about 5 seconds. Zeek coils his head back and comes in pursuit. When he gets close, I let go of poor Lunchbox and he goes exploring. Lunchbox runs toward the shower curtains and Zeek strikes. Zeek gets Lunchbox and a mouthful of shower curtain (OOPS!). I tried getting the curtain out of his mouth but it's impossible so I know I have to wait until Zeek moves to start swallowing Lunchbox, poor Lunchbox. When Zeek felt that Lunchbox was completely dead he did try to separate from the curtain and I assisted him which turned out to be uneventful.

This whole time I am worried that I stressed him out too much to finish eating, with the high temperature in his enclosure to the shower curtain, which I moved him around a lot while he was constricted to try and get it out of his mouth. This is the first time I have watched an in person snake feeding and in my eyes he was struggling to get Lunchbox down. Originally he got him by the neck and that didn't work, so he went sniffing around and kept trying to swallow by a leg. In reality this probably didn't take as long as it did in my head but I was worried he would give up and I would now have to dispose of the rat I sent to death row...

To my relief (?) Zeek worked Lunchbox down and I took some pictures along the way.

So, I hope THAT WAS THE LAST TIME I have to feed a live animal to Zeek. I hope he will take frozen ones in the future as it will be easier on me. I always pictured feeding a snake to the movie Road Trip when Tom Green tried feeding a mouse to his friends snake. It seemed fun and comedic but in real life I value the rats life as much as the snakes life and I can't play favorites.

Here's some pictures:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...r/Zeek1002.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...r/Zeek1003.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...r/Zeek1004.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...r/Zeek1010.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...r/Zeek1014.jpg

I really hope you appreciated reading my story to this point. If you did make it this far and read everything, thank you.

Hi - first welcome to the forum! And Zeke is a gorgeous ball python, so congrats on him.

I would encourage you to check out our caresheet on setting him up properly. I'd also suggest you go to Lowes or Home Depot and get a dimmer temporarily to control your heat source until you can order a thermostat - you can get one from http://www.reptilebasics.com

I am also an animal lover and I hate feeding day. I do feed live to all of my animals (about 50 at last count). It does get a little easier, but it's still hard, but the snakes have to eat. I do give away a few rats a year to pet homes when people contact me, which makes me feel a little better about the breeding and raising of rats to be food.

As for feeding in the bathtub - it's really not necessary. You can feed Zeke in his enclosure. I feed all of mine in their enclosures, and I don't have any cage aggression, because I'm going into their enclosures multiple times during the week, not just on feeding day, so they don't assume that every time I open their enclosures that food is coming. And it reduces stress from having to move them after just eating.

You should be warned though - ball pythons are like potato chips - you can't have just one! :P

Wow, interesting story. Well I hope that your experiences with the bathtub has convinced you that its fine to feed your BP in its enclosure. As stressful as that whole experience was for you it was probably equally stressful on Zeek. Good luck with feeding frozen, some BP's will take frozen and some won't. Mine will not. In fact I am convinced mine has multiple personalities. She gobbles down 3 mice two weeks in a row and then acts like I am offering her a salad for the last two weeks. As for feeling bad about feeding rodents to snakes. Think about how often mice and rats reproduce. Think about how many pups they can have in a year. Now we know that the global population of mice and rats is more or less stable as there is no shortage of rodents and we are not literally being overrun. What do you think happens to all those baby rats and mice. They die, thats what. Feeding your snake is no more wrong than having turkey on thanksgiving.

Wow, great story. What a beautiful snake! I'm a new BP owner too, but mine's only 4 months old. I was doing a reptile show (I sell Bugs in Lucite, paperweights, jewelry etc) and one of the breeders wanted to trade a snake for one of my bats in lucite. I've had a large Pac Man Frog before, so I was kind of used to the live feeding thing. Other than a bad shed (I corrected the humidity), she's eating live rat pups now. Going to try frozen thawed next. I think I'm going to feed in her enclosure too. Enjoy!

Many moons ago I bought my first ball python. I would feed him in the bathtub. I was living with my parents at the time, and didn't think about the chemicals that were used to clean the tub. To make a long story short, my ignorance almost killed him. I caused my ball ot have chemical burns on his belly. I highly recommend you don't put him into the tub.

Nice snake by the way. I love the pattern. Thanks for sharing your story.

Marc

Kewl story :)

I breed rats, lots of rats :P
Everything from dwarf rats to asf's and rats with many different colors and coat types.

But a snakes gotta eat, so I feed the cutest ones last :P

I understand your dilemma.

This will be a growing process for you and for Zeke, who by the way is a STUNNER!

Here's how I think about the death of one animal and the life of another. As humans (also a species that I frequently think less than highly off),
death is, at it's very base, a part of life. One can not have life without death. Nothing that lives will escape death. Weather your a Christian, Buddhist, atheist, it simply is what it is. Unless you are a strict vegetarian you take place in the death of animals as food for another animal. (Almost no vegetarians are strict vegetarians but there are some. This means you do not use any product that has animal used in it's creation or it's composition) It is far more noble to recognize that and learn to be unflinching in feeding your snake. It is more honest.

Ah no big deal, my girlfriend cried the first time I fed my ball a live mouse... since then I just feed frozen/thawed and she's happy and he doesn't really care.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Hi - first welcome to the forum! And Zeke is a gorgeous ball python, so congrats on him.

I would encourage you to check out our caresheet on setting him up properly. I'd also suggest you go to Lowes or Home Depot and get a dimmer temporarily to control your heat source until you can order a thermostat - you can get one from http://www.reptilebasics.com

I am also an animal lover and I hate feeding day. I do feed live to all of my animals (about 50 at last count). It does get a little easier, but it's still hard, but the snakes have to eat. I do give away a few rats a year to pet homes when people contact me, which makes me feel a little better about the breeding and raising of rats to be food.

As for feeding in the bathtub - it's really not necessary. You can feed Zeke in his enclosure. I feed all of mine in their enclosures, and I don't have any cage aggression, because I'm going into their enclosures multiple times during the week, not just on feeding day, so they don't assume that every time I open their enclosures that food is coming. And it reduces stress from having to move them after just eating.

You should be warned though - ball pythons are like potato chips - you can't have just one! :P

---

The lamp I have the CHE in does have a built in dimmer. The problem is that there are no classes this week, so no reason to get up early, and a new late night shift at work, so I'm sleeping into the afternoon and not getting up early enough to adjust the dimmer. However I do like the idea of a thermostat so I don't have to worry about that. I'll have to do some research on those.

As I sat there taking pictures of the whole ordeal I did get a sense that it wasn't so bad and would be easier if I have to do it again later.

With such a variety of colors and patterns I can see how easy it is to get hooked and want more. For now I still need my training wheels so I'll stick with one. :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Wow, interesting story. Well I hope that your experiences with the bathtub has convinced you that its fine to feed your BP in its enclosure. As stressful as that whole experience was for you it was probably equally stressful on Zeek. Good luck with feeding frozen, some BP's will take frozen and some won't. Mine will not. In fact I am convinced mine has multiple personalities. She gobbles down 3 mice two weeks in a row and then acts like I am offering her a salad for the last two weeks. As for feeling bad about feeding rodents to snakes. Think about how often mice and rats reproduce. Think about how many pups they can have in a year. Now we know that the global population of mice and rats is more or less stable as there is no shortage of rodents and we are not literally being overrun. What do you think happens to all those baby rats and mice. They die, thats what. Feeding your snake is no more wrong than having turkey on thanksgiving.

---

I don't like turkey. :P

Your suggestion about rat population reminds me of what my brother said yesterday to make it easier to feed Zeek the next time. Throw it on the floor and it becomes a pest. :rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marct

Many moons ago I bought my first ball python. I would feed him in the bathtub. I was living with my parents at the time, and didn't think about the chemicals that were used to clean the tub. To make a long story short, my ignorance almost killed him. I caused my ball ot have chemical burns on his belly. I highly recommend you don't put him into the tub.

Nice snake by the way. I love the pattern. Thanks for sharing your story.

Marc

---

That's a great point, thanks. Being the only user/cleaner of that tub right now I know exactly what's going on with it but that won't always be the case so this is definately something to keep in mind for the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by singingtothewheat

This will be a growing process for you and for Zeke, who by the way is a STUNNER!

Here's how I think about the death of one animal and the life of another. As humans (also a species that I frequently think less than highly off),
death is, at it's very base, a part of life. One can not have life without death. Nothing that lives will escape death. Weather your a Christian, Buddhist, atheist, it simply is what it is. Unless you are a strict vegetarian you take place in the death of animals as food for another animal. (Almost no vegetarians are strict vegetarians but there are some. This means you do not use any product that has animal used in it's creation or it's composition) It is far more noble to recognize that and learn to be unflinching in feeding your snake. It is more honest.

---

This is a growing process for me, he's a seasoned veteran. Haha

Point well taken. I do often joke that as I get older I become more of a vegetarian but the reality is we're omnivores so that's not really natural. Being a vegetarian is a psychological choice most of the time, not physical, so most of them to the best of there knowledge are not consuming animal products. But in the great processed society of America it's nearly impossible to avoid.

Congrats on your new snake! He's quite the looker.

I know it can be hard to feed live to snakes, emotionally. I have to distance myself from the whole thing, not allow myself to get attached to the rodent. I've had lots of pet rodents in the past, especially rats. I'll admit.. the first rat that my first snake, Harvey, refused... is now a pet even though I promised myself I wouldn't do that. :P I've gotten all but one of my snakes to eat frozen/thawed now, and most of them took to it right away - it's easier and also a lot cheaper for me.

Well, that kept me entertained. :8:

VERY nice reduced banded male you've got there. And I can understand why you felt bad - I had a pet rat that looked exactly like that one. I love rats (hate mice), but I also love my snake. She's still on mice, but when the time comes, I will have to do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EchoPet

Congrats on your new snake! He's quite the looker.

I know it can be hard to feed live to snakes, emotionally. I have to distance myself from the whole thing, not allow myself to get attached to the rodent. I've had lots of pet rodents in the past, especially rats. I'll admit.. the first rat that my first snake, Harvey, refused... is now a pet even though I promised myself I wouldn't do that. :P I've gotten all but one of my snakes to eat frozen/thawed now, and most of them took to it right away - it's easier and also a lot cheaper for me.

---

I get attached the first time I look at an animal that is in my possession. I really hope my snake will take to F/T rats. It will be cheaper for me also considering live rats are about $4 where I live so the $55 shipping charge that most online dealers have still comes out to be less as long as I get 30-40 rats. I got a quote from Big Cheese for 30 rats it would be $70.95 which would be perfect except that they had a terrible loss recently because of a power outage, losing 70% of their rats, so they won't have any available till the end of December. :(

If I had two or more snakes food would be a real bargain online... Maybe I should get another...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moofins07

Well, that kept me entertained. :8:

VERY nice reduced banded male you've got there. And I can understand why you felt bad - I had a pet rat that looked exactly like that one. I love rats (hate mice), but I also love my snake. She's still on mice, but when the time comes, I will have to do it.

---

Reduced banded... I do think he looks great but I am still trying to learn patterns and colors and their designations. There are very few that are obvious (To me at this point).

I'm with you on that. He depends on me and I will not let him down, no matter how comfortable I am with it.

Nearly every guide I read prior to getting a ball python said that feeding should be done outside of the enclosure to reduce the chance of getting bit. Everyone here says that feeding in the enclosure is fine and actually better for the snake. This must be the difference between having a snake as a pet and loving your animals. As long as I handle him more often than I feed him I should be okay. I will start feeding him in his tank to reduce the stress of the process.

I feed my baby in her tank, but I also hold her everyday. She doesnt even seem to want to bite. Ive had to reach in there to move her hide while my husband was scenting the room with her mousey, and she didnt even pay attention to me. I think your right about it being all about them being loved pets or not. :)

First of all, that is a BEAUTIFUL reduced pattern bp you have there :D

I know exactly how you feel. I'm an animal lover too (although I completely agree with you about Homo sapiens), and my ball python absolutely refuses to eat frozen thawed. My corn snakes are more or less eating machines and will eat anything you put in front of them, but my girl will have none of it. And although I don't really care for mice personally, I still feel a twinge of guilt every time I buy one and drop it in with her. I just try not to think about it and tell myself that I love my snake more and she has to eat. But still I do feel bad, and my family doesn't help when they're always asking me "how can you do it?" and "oh that poor little mouse" etc. I really never want to have to feed her rats...that's going to be tough.

So yeah, you can try to switch him to frozen thawed. It is probably better in many ways...but if he's been eating live mice his whole life, it might be difficult.

I agree that you shouldn't feed him in the bathtub, the shower curtain being the main reason :P I feed all of my snakes in a separate container (sterilite) just so they don't accidentally ingest any of their bedding, but you can definitely feed him in his enclosure too. If you do have to feed him live again though, make sure to remove any decorations from the tank so they don't get in the way.

Good luck, and I hope you can convert him to f/t. You really do have a nice snake there regardless. Just know that you're not the only one who feels bad about feeding live. Sometimes it ends up being a necessary evil though unfortunately

Wow you are an awesome writer! Congrats on your new snake!

But warning: They becoming very addicting!!! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by withonor

I get attached the first time I look at an animal that is in my possession. I really hope my snake will take to F/T rats. It will be cheaper for me also considering live rats are about $4 where I live so the $55 shipping charge that most online dealers have still comes out to be less as long as I get 30-40 rats. I got a quote from Big Cheese for 30 rats it would be $70.95 which would be perfect except that they had a terrible loss recently because of a power outage, losing 70% of their rats, so they won't have any available till the end of December. :(

If I had two or more snakes food would be a real bargain online... Maybe I should get another...

---

Before you buy in bulk online, make sure your snake will eat F/T. If none of the stores near you sell F/T, you can do it yourself. When I was switching my snakes over, first I tried pre-killed. The easiest way I found was just putting the rats in a cooler and then putting some dry-ice in a container with holes and putting that in the cooler with the rats.. they just go to sleep. You can also get a CO2 tank from a paintball gun store and do it that way. Anyway, once your snake will eat P/K, then freeze one or two and next time thaw those out and see if your snake will take them. Make sure you thaw them out slowly (do NOT put in the microwave.. trust me.. LOL), and get them pretty warm, especially around the head. I use a hairdryer. Most of my snakes prefer when I make the rat "walk" past their hides. Then they just come out the opening of the hide and strike, then drag it back inside with them. I think it makes them feel more secure. But it'd be a waste to buy a bunch of frozen rats only to find out that your snake won't eat them.

If Big Cheese is still out, try RodentPro. I buy from them online and their shopping cart tells you how much space is left in the box so you can maximize your order for the shipping you pay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blushingball419

First of all, that is a BEAUTIFUL reduced pattern bp you have there :D

I know exactly how you feel. I'm an animal lover too (although I completely agree with you about Homo sapiens), and my ball python absolutely refuses to eat frozen thawed. My corn snakes are more or less eating machines and will eat anything you put in front of them, but my girl will have none of it. And although I don't really care for mice personally, I still feel a twinge of guilt every time I buy one and drop it in with her. I just try not to think about it and tell myself that I love my snake more and she has to eat. But still I do feel bad, and my family doesn't help when they're always asking me "how can you do it?" and "oh that poor little mouse" etc. I really never want to have to feed her rats...that's going to be tough.

So yeah, you can try to switch him to frozen thawed. It is probably better in many ways...but if he's been eating live mice his whole life, it might be difficult.

I agree that you shouldn't feed him in the bathtub, the shower curtain being the main reason :P I feed all of my snakes in a separate container (sterilite) just so they don't accidentally ingest any of their bedding, but you can definitely feed him in his enclosure too. If you do have to feed him live again though, make sure to remove any decorations from the tank so they don't get in the way.

Good luck, and I hope you can convert him to f/t. You really do have a nice snake there regardless. Just know that you're not the only one who feels bad about feeding live. Sometimes it ends up being a necessary evil though unfortunately

---

I like that idea, feeding in a sterilite container. Not because I'm against feeding him in the tank but because it's really crowded and is the reason I didn't try feeding him in there that first night. I really don't want to have to take everything out. After reading the post about people showing their enclosures and I wondered how they fit all that stuff in them. I was told the tank I was getting was about 30 gallons so I go and measure it. 30x12x12 which is only 20 gallons....

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...r/Zeek1016.jpg

I have no way to fit a second hide in there, though I though about raising his water bowl somehow so he could go under it. The more I see him use that half log I think I need to get a bigger hide. He oozes out all the openings while he's in there. Taking measurements reminds me I need to get a piece of plexiglass for the top tomorrow. I've been using a shirt to keep the heat in but that's lowering the humidity.

I hope I can convert him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PolkaDotPenguin

Wow you are an awesome writer! Congrats on your new snake!

But warning: They becoming very addicting!!! :)

---

Thanks.

Yes, I have seen a morph line that I really like, but I mustn't speak its name! The thought must remain a fleeting fantasy so that it doesn't come to fruition. The idea of getting a male and female to try and produce a clean.... Gah! Supress the urge!

That Ball Python is amazing, i love that reduced pattern. It will get easier over time and soon enough you will realize its just the cycle of life. I have had pet rats that i would never feed to my snakes. But then i also go buy mice and rats to feed to my snakes every week. You'll get used to it and realize that a full snake, is a happy snake!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EchoPet

Before you buy in bulk online, make sure your snake will eat F/T. If none of the stores near you sell F/T, you can do it yourself. When I was switching my snakes over, first I tried pre-killed. The easiest way I found was just putting the rats in a cooler and then putting some dry-ice in a container with holes and putting that in the cooler with the rats.. they just go to sleep. You can also get a CO2 tank from a paintball gun store and do it that way. Anyway, once your snake will eat P/K, then freeze one or two and next time thaw those out and see if your snake will take them. Make sure you thaw them out slowly (do NOT put in the microwave.. trust me.. LOL), and get them pretty warm, especially around the head. I use a hairdryer. Most of my snakes prefer when I make the rat "walk" past their hides. Then they just come out the opening of the hide and strike, then drag it back inside with them. I think it makes them feel more secure. But it'd be a waste to buy a bunch of frozen rats only to find out that your snake won't eat them.

If Big Cheese is still out, try RodentPro. I buy from them online and their shopping cart tells you how much space is left in the box so you can maximize your order for the shipping you pay.

---

I'm definately going to try and find one local before I buy bulk.

To me freshly killing is just as bad as live. I may feel worse putting it to sleep versus giving it a "fighting" chance.

I've read the horror stories of stomaches exploding and such with improper heating techniques and I certainly don't want that to happen. I also saw a video of a breeder here feeding F/T to his snakes. He'd hold them in the tongs and wiggle them around and after the snake coiled around it, he'd shake it a little bit more to simulate a struggle. I think I'll do it that way assuming he'll actually eat them.

I've checked RodentPro and for me maximizing the shipping box is not the best way to go with one snake. I could fit 160 small rats in one box which would be 3-1/2 to 7 years worth of food. I've read that you shouldn't keep them stored for more than six months so if he continues to eat one every two weeks that's less than 15 rats but I think I will start offering him one per week. If you thaw one out and offer it but he doesn't want it, can you refreeze it? Or is it better to toss it?

There's one obvious solution to this problem I may have with ordering food in bulk... Get more snakes. :rofl:

Ok I missed a lot of good posts I want to comment on a few.

"Put the mouse on the ground and it becomes a pest."

Thats one of the simplest explanations of the situation I have seen. I am definitely going to use that.

"As I get older I become more Vegetarian"

Me too. Keep in mind I am still pretty far off but I get more and more so every year. My personal philosophy is to try and eat locally grown animals. I feel much better about eating a cow that I know was cared for properly. My girlfriend and I buy 1/4 of a cow and 1/2 of a pig every year. Its expensive up front but much cheaper in the long run. The meat is leaner than most of what you will find in a store and the animals were treated well.

This brings me to my biggest reason for not feeding F/T. My problem is not actually with feeding F/T but with buying them online. Unless you have visited the facilities of the company you buy from you don't know that the animals are cared for properly. For me raising my own rodents is the most humane option. Many people feel that its cruel to raise them only to be fed off, but these people usually say so while eating a hamburger. I explain to them that I care for all of my animals the same. My fish, cats, BP, and even my rodents get the best quality food and enclosures that I can reasonably afford. My rodents have more than 5 times the floor space that lab animals have. On top of that because I only have the one BP at this time my rodents have more time between breeding and get to grow to 30 grams before I feed them off. When my BP was still eating F/T the adults I ordered were between 18 and 24 grams. I am not trying to maximize production or minimize costs at the expense of the animals and so I believe they have a better life. I am sure many have heard the phrase, "Think global, act local" when it comes to saving the planet. Well the same applies to caring for your snake. When you breed your own, or buy locally and responsibly you are doing the right thing, not just hiding yourself form the parts of life you would rather not think about. Its more honest.

I usually feed my ball in his tank because I don't want to pick him up afterward in fear of him regurgitating the mouse. That's why you shouldn't handle them for 48 hours after feeding.

...Welcome....interesting story...:)...you n your ball will have a great adventure ahead...good luck...Nice looking Ball!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Ok I missed a lot of good posts I want to comment on a few.

"Put the mouse on the ground and it becomes a pest."

Thats one of the simplest explanations of the situation I have seen. I am definitely going to use that.

"As I get older I become more Vegetarian"

Me too. Keep in mind I am still pretty far off but I get more and more so every year. My personal philosophy is to try and eat locally grown animals. I feel much better about eating a cow that I know was cared for properly. My girlfriend and I buy 1/4 of a cow and 1/2 of a pig every year. Its expensive up front but much cheaper in the long run. The meat is leaner than most of what you will find in a store and the animals were treated well.

This brings me to my biggest reason for not feeding F/T. My problem is not actually with feeding F/T but with buying them online. Unless you have visited the facilities of the company you buy from you don't know that the animals are cared for properly. For me raising my own rodents is the most humane option. Many people feel that its cruel to raise them only to be fed off, but these people usually say so while eating a hamburger. I explain to them that I care for all of my animals the same. My fish, cats, BP, and even my rodents get the best quality food and enclosures that I can reasonably afford. My rodents have more than 5 times the floor space that lab animals have. On top of that because I only have the one BP at this time my rodents have more time between breeding and get to grow to 30 grams before I feed them off. When my BP was still eating F/T the adults I ordered were between 18 and 24 grams. I am not trying to maximize production or minimize costs at the expense of the animals and so I believe they have a better life. I am sure many have heard the phrase, "Think global, act local" when it comes to saving the planet. Well the same applies to caring for your snake. When you breed your own, or buy locally and responsibly you are doing the right thing, not just hiding yourself form the parts of life you would rather not think about. Its more honest.

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Hmm, why didn't I reply to your comment earlier?

That quote from my brother about making the rat a pest is priceless.

I think we're on the same page with the vegetarian thing. I have a long time friend, who was actually a scoutmaster in my boyscout troop, that has a weekend ranch a few hours north. He has a bunch of cattle there, breeds them minimally, and sends one to the butcher every 1-3 years. He always has too much meat for him and basically gives us as much as we ask for, though it's hard to ask when he is just giving it to you and not wanting anything in return.

When I visited this local guy who sells frozen rats we discussed the "not knowing how online dealers treat their animals". I am really thankful he existed. His setup was nice, basically what anyone in the rat breeders forum would suggest if you wanted to breed rats. He had a bin set up for euthanizing the rats and a tank of C02 instead of dry ice. I bought a live rat in case my python wouldn't take F/T, but he did and now I have a pet rat that is a complete chatterbox which leads me to believe he wasn't ever treated badly. I may want to breed my own, but I think I will need A LOT more snakes to want to do that.

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Originally Posted by CRAZY

I usually feed my ball in his tank because I don't want to pick him up afterward in fear of him regurgitating the mouse. That's why you shouldn't handle them for 48 hours after feeding.

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The first time I fed him I did what the previous owners did. After I made this post and basically everyone who had an opinion said feed him in his enclosure, I did that on the second feeding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flawless

...Welcome....interesting story...:)...you n your ball will have a great adventure ahead...good luck...Nice looking Ball!!!

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Thanks. I'm looking foward to the adventure, so far he is a great teammate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by withonor

Hmm, why didn't I reply to your comment earlier?

That quote from my brother about making the rat a pest is priceless.

I think we're on the same page with the vegetarian thing. I have a long time friend, who was actually a scoutmaster in my boyscout troop, that has a weekend ranch a few hours north. He has a bunch of cattle there, breeds them minimally, and sends one to the butcher every 1-3 years. He always has too much meat for him and basically gives us as much as we ask for, though it's hard to ask when he is just giving it to you and not wanting anything in return.

When I visited this local guy who sells frozen rats we discussed the "not knowing how online dealers treat their animals". I am really thankful he existed. His setup was nice, basically what anyone in the rat breeders forum would suggest if you wanted to breed rats. He had a bin set up for euthanizing the rats and a tank of C02 instead of dry ice. I bought a live rat in case my python wouldn't take F/T, but he did and now I have a pet rat that is a complete chatterbox which leads me to believe he wasn't ever treated badly. I may want to breed my own, but I think I will need A LOT more snakes to want to do that.

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If you have a local guy that treats his animals well and is reasonably priced then I say buy from him. Raising your own is a lot of work so unless you want to do it I would take advantage of having a good local breeder.