Behavior/Weight Issues.

I have 2 ball pythons, 1 normal, 1 het yellow ghost, not sure of the genders. I was told the normal, Savage 60, is a female and the het yellow ghost, Phantom, was a male, and because it doesn't really matter to me either way, I went with that.

Phantom has always been a very docile, sweet boy, the kind of BP anyone can give face snuggles to without fear of him even pulling away, much less striking. I've had him for about a year, no incidents until about a month ago when I reached in his cage to pick him up, no rat smell on me of any kind on me, and he latched onto my hand. I've gotten much better at reading snake body language since my first bite when I was about 15, and while he was giving me 'the look' I didn't think he'd actually do it. Well, he did, and ever since then, he's been like that. To get him off, I ran his head under water and he let go on his own, and now it isn't just in his cage when he's aggressive. I'm used to this behavior from Savage, who used to behave that way all the time.

The thing is, Savage has turned into the puppy dog that Phantom used to be! She's now the sweet one that doesn't mind handling and snuggles. She's also the heavier of the 2, even though Phantom eats twice what she does, he never seems to put on weight, and she never seems to lose/gain any. What happened? They don't get fed in the tank, they get fed in the bath tub, seperate times, seperate tanks, everything. Their cages are designed the same, but that's about it.


Sorry to bombard you all with questions, this one's just been bothering me a while. Why have they switched personalities on me? It's sort of saddening, because Phantom has always been my favorite between the two.

Pictures, if they help?

Savage 60 -
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...g?t=1258588091

Phantom -

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...g?t=1258588296

I am curious how much do you feed them and how often?

They get fed usually a F/T medium rat, in theory, once a week, but sometimes one of them won't want anything, or will only take a small rat or large mouse, or nothing at all.

I guess I should say I try to get them to eat a F/T medium rats every week. If they're still hungry, they get more, but usually Phantom will eat 2 every week, and Savage will eat 1 about every other week.

Sorry if that's confusing. When I got Phantom, he was being fed F/T baby quail, but that was way too expensive for me to keep up and too far to drive to get them, so it took a while to finally get him on rats.

EDIT- Not sure if it matters, but Phantom has gained about 300 grams from when I got him about 10 months ago, but he still looks scrawny. :/

I am wondering since it tis the season....if Phantom is looking to breed and that is why he or she is cranky??

I'm hoping that's all it is. The thought had crossed my mind, but I thought only females got snippy. Maybe he's really a girl? One of these days I'll take the 45 minute drive to have them both probed. I feel silly when people ask what gender they are, and my sentence ends in 'I think'.

You said they are sporadic eaters, which makes me think that feeding them in their home enclosures might make them more consistent.

He struck you and held on, which means it wasn't a "go away" bite and could be an "im hungry" bite. Try feeding in the home enclosure and see if they eat more often and if the aggression stops. Many snakes are easily stressed when moving around for feeding.

-headdesk-


I've always been told that feeding them in the cage makes them aggressive to things entering the cage, which is why I don't feed them in the cage. But, if they don't eat at all, I guess it defeats the point. I can try feeding them in the cage if that will help.

Phantom has been snappy with me tonight, even though he last ate a small rat 2 days ago, and 2 small rats 2 days before that. Should I give in and feed him again?

I have one big girl who got meaner as she got older. At first there were no problems. After about a year she started to strike every once in a while. Then came serious hissing and striking all the time, even once I got her out and into my hands. This year she was big enough to try breeding. For some reason, in the past month since I have been cycling a male through her cage :hump: she has completely calmed down. Could have been just hormonal changes??? None of my others are that way. I hope they never get that way. Nearly All the others I have are a year or older and are great.

FWIW, I have always fed all of them in their cages and only had issues with the one female.

Food in the cage it is, I guess!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LadyBall

-headdesk-


I've always been told that feeding them in the cage makes them aggressive to things entering the cage, which is why I don't feed them in the cage. But, if they don't eat at all, I guess it defeats the point. I can try feeding them in the cage if that will help.
again?

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It is a lie! All of my snakes are puppy dog tame and are all fed in their home enclosures :)

What ever you do don't stop holding them. If the snake bites or strikes and you react by leaving it alone they will figure out that biting makes you go away. If it gets bad enough, like it was with my girl just wear long sleeves and a pair of welding gloves or leather gloves. Welding gloves are sold at Home Depot or Lowes for about $10 and cover most of your forearm too.

Heh, I'm not easily scared off. I was taking close ups of Phantom in between strikes, little stinker that he is. I used to have horses so I'm familiar with having to get back in the saddle, as it were.


Anyway, Phantom has eaten every 2 days these past 4 days, and he's out looking for more as I type. Should I give him another small rat?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LadyBall

Heh, I'm not easily scared off. I was taking close ups of Phantom in between strikes, little stinker that he is. I used to have horses so I'm familiar with having to get back in the saddle, as it were.


Anyway, Phantom has eaten every 2 days these past 4 days, and he's out looking for more as I type. Should I give him another small rat?

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BPs should be fed every 5-7 days.. every 2 is way to often. So id say no. wait another week. but thats my opinion.

Have you ever taken in a fecal sample to your vet for either of them? The reason that I ask is that Phantom appears to be rather thin in the tail area from the pictures that you posted, not filled out. If Phantom is eating twice as much as Savage and looks thin like that, there's a possibility that he could have parasites. He may not - but it's something that you might want to rule out.

He normally only gets fed once a week, but the other day, I warmed up a little rat for my young blood, only to open up the cage and find the blood shedding, so I gave it to Phantom, not really thinking he'd take it, and he did.


He'd eat me out of rats in no time at this rate!



EDIT-

Didn't see your post! And no, I've never taken them in aside from when I first purchased them about a year ago, and they came back with a clean bill of health. I've gotten 2 bloods and just recently a spider since then, but none of these snakes or their bowls/cages/etc have ever come into contact with each other, so I don't think he could have picked up anything from them.

My bigger blood I did get for free because he was about 90% of the way dead and had a mouth literally full of mouth rot and a respiratory infection. He was treated with I believe Baytril and has since cleared up just fine and is even putting weight back on and eating on his own most of the time. If not, I just have to slip a F/T rat head in his mouth and he takes care of the rest. But, that's the only sick snake that I've had. I could have him looked at most likely in a week, maybe 2 if you think he should be examined again.

just to re-iterate...you can totally feed in the cage. I listen to all that when I got my first snake. Wow...what a pain in the butt and a stresser for Elizabeth. And to be honest.....that was the only time she was refusing to eat.

Once I changed to feeding in the tank it was nothing but awesome feeding response. And .....much easier on me as well!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LadyBall

Didn't see your post! And no, I've never taken them in aside from when I first purchased them about a year ago, and they came back with a clean bill of health. I've gotten 2 bloods and just recently a spider since then, but none of these snakes or their bowls/cages/etc have ever come into contact with each other, so I don't think he could have picked up anything from them.

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Were fecals done when you first got them and took them to the vet? It's possible he came to you WITH parasites. Dropping off a fecal at the vet and getting a test done is about $20. By the looks of him, I'd say he's hungry - and if he's eating like you say he is - I'd definitely want to rule out parasites.

Tapeworm is the usual culprit when it comes to clean fecals and an animal that eats you out of the house and doesn't gain weight--that's true for mammals as well. Tapeworms hook their head on the inner wall of the intestinal tract, and absorb food that the snake eats, so that it is able to use less of the nutrition from the food item. They shed body segments to reproduce, but they do not shed them continually. Because shedding of tapeworm segments (which are full of eggs) is not continuous, they can be missed in a single fecal exam. What's more, it's easy to miss other parasites as well if the vet only does a smear, and not a full flotation.

So I second the suggestion to take a fresh fecal sample in to your vet and ask for a float to be done. Since the snake has already seen the vet, the vet shouldn't need to see him again to run the fecal screening, so it shouldn't be very expensive.

As for the biting, it does sound like he's trying to eat you, so I wonder if the feeding outside of the cage might have had the opposite of the intended effect. Now he expects that he'll be going into a tub to eat when he's taken out, so being taken out = food on the way.
Cage aggression does happen, but it's usually easily defused with a tap stick (just nudge the snake until it realizes you're not feeding it). Since it's used to being handed food in the cage, it doesn't associated removal from the cage with eating.
There are potential issues with both methods, but I personally prefer to feed in the cage, as the snakes seem to prefer this.

Alright, I'll call the vet and see if Phantom will give me a little poo to work with after a nice soak. If he does have parasites of some kind, what is usually done to treat them, and how much is it going to cost? I ask because I'd intended to go to a reptile show on Saturday, but if the treatment will be costly, I'll have to forgo the trip to make sure I can afford it.