Rat mothers fighting over babies?

I had like 4 females which two were actual mothers, and i came home and 2 of them were ripped up pretty bad, I fed them off to a couple of my smaller snakes. I removed all the mothers that didn't actually have a littler, and left the two. Now the two are huddled over one litter!! I seperated the other litter of smaller pinks but they seem to be neglecting them now. Anyone have any ideas on what I should do??

I'd say just separate any females that you notice fighting together. Generally, female rats will help one another rather than fight, though an occasional fight will pop up from time to time. It's typical of them to "squabble" somewhat though--they have to establish a pecking order in their colony; serious fights like the one you mentioned: definitely separate them. Minor squabbles: let them be.

Did the moms put the smaller pinks back with the other babies? Or have you moved them to an entirely different enclosure? Most of the moms I have will gather all of the babies together in one pile, though if there's a large amount, they'll separate them into two piles themselves. If I have pups and pinks in the same tub, though, I remove the pinks and use surrogate moms from another tub that also has pinks. I've noticed that the larger pups will shove the pinks down to the bottom of the baby pile, and the pinks can't get any milk.

I'd say if the rats really are completely ignoring your smaller pinks, try a surrogate mom if you have one available in another enclosure (just make sure she's had babies fairly recently, and that she still has milk). If that rat refuses to care for them as well, then most likely there is something wrong with them that us humans can't see, but the rats will know and will take matters into their own hands so that the healthy babies have a better chance. No sense in feeding babies who probably aren't going to make it anyway; that's the law of the jungle, and the rats typically stick to it well.

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Originally Posted by SnakeGirl3

I'd say just separate any females that you notice fighting together. Generally, female rats will help one another rather than fight, though an occasional fight will pop up from time to time. It's typical of them to "squabble" somewhat though--they have to establish a pecking order in their colony; serious fights like the one you mentioned: definitely separate them. Minor squabbles: let them be.

Did the moms put the smaller pinks back with the other babies? Or have you moved them to an entirely different enclosure? Most of the moms I have will gather all of the babies together in one pile, though if there's a large amount, they'll separate them into two piles themselves. If I have pups and pinks in the same tub, though, I remove the pinks and use surrogate moms from another tub that also has pinks. I've noticed that the larger pups will shove the pinks down to the bottom of the baby pile, and the pinks can't get any milk.

I'd say if the rats really are completely ignoring your smaller pinks, try a surrogate mom if you have one available in another enclosure (just make sure she's had babies fairly recently, and that she still has milk). If that rat refuses to care for them as well, then most likely there is something wrong with them that us humans can't see, but the rats will know and will take matters into their own hands so that the healthy babies have a better chance. No sense in feeding babies who probably aren't going to make it anyway; that's the law of the jungle, and the rats typically stick to it well.

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Thanks so much for the detailed reply really appreciate it!

I just got done making a new bin so I can seperate them, and I don't know if there taking care of the smaller ones yet I'm going to home to where they are now. When I left they were in there own pile which I made for them because when I was seperating all them they all kinda threw bedding everywhere so I just put the smaller pinks with one another, and the others as well. But it was weird because there both sitting on one pile? The other mom wasn't getting too mad, but would occasionally get frustrated and bite the other one. Hopefully I will go home and they will be doing there thing again. Also, one of them had a nice size chunk of skin missing on the side, it wasn't bleeding reallly bad, but looks kinda gross. Is that something that will heal? Or should I feed him off too?

If it's not a major cut/wound, it will most likely heal on it's own. Definitely keep an eye on it and if it gets worse, you might want to clean the wound, take it to a vet, or kill it off. But if it isn't bleeding, I wouldn't stress over it too much. It may just be a wound from one of the minor squabbles, and again, all rats will do that to some extent in order to establish their pecking order. There's no guarantee that using a new male won't give you the same issue. He may also get the same "battle scar," so to speak, while he is figuring out his spot in the pecking order of the colony. ;)

The moms that seem to fight over babies: it might be best to separate them. Perhaps those two particular rats have issues with one another. Try putting other females with them. If they don't have any problems with the other females, let them be as long as they are producing babies for you. However, if they still have issues with other females in the colony, it might be best to kill/feed them off to keep the peace with your rats.

Best of luck!

Also, if you are new to rat keeping/breeding, search megacolon in rats online. Definitiely something you'll want to know about. ;)

I added another female making it a trio now. I haven't heard them fighting so I think were good in terms of fighting now. Now it seems like the one mother has taken on both litters. There are some that are seperated in other corners that they tend to, but the one mom seems to be taking on most of both. The cut on the little one seems to be getting a little better but I still got my eye on it. It doesn't bleed but its sad to see him cut up like that, if it doesn't improve once he starts growing fur then I think I'm gonna feed him to my baby ball.

How many females would I need to keep a collection of 10 snakes fed every week. I read that sticky, I think i should have 12 but I still don't know if I get it completely. If someone could clear this up it would be great.

I'd say somewhere between 10-12 females would be good. I have 10 females and 2 males myself (and 11 snakes of various sizes). My colony is just getting going good, and I'm still feeding a few baby snakes that I have for sale as well, but I'm able to kill off and freeze some rats to feed my larger snakes, as well as having rat pups to feed to the younger ones. But if I need to, I can always save a couple more females from the litters to use as breeders if I get to needing some more girls.

So how long would you say it took for you to have a constant supply?

Right now I have 7 females, 3 of them that were from a litter I just had, but being that they were female I just kept them to use as breeders. I also have 2 males. I'm just starting to get into this so I didn't want to start out with 12 from the get go. What I would like to do is just get a bunch of other females(until I have about a dozen) that are ready to breed, and start following that schedule that was on the sticky. I'm not sure if I get it. I'm just trying to figure out how to get it going the best. Any advice or just a decent walkthrough would be awesooooooooooome! I'm gonna go read that sticky again and see if I could get some more out of it.

sorry I just read it again.

In a nutshell, I want to pair the male every two weeks to a different female. Now could I just start a new bin with one female, throw a male in for two weeks, add another female, wait two weeks, add another, and then start a new tub? So pretty much just having trio's in each bin, but starting with one female, and just adding females until I hit three in each bin(4 trios after all is said and done)?

So it should take like 6 months until I start having the right amount correct?

If someone could chime in and lemme know if thats correct would be greaaaat!! :gj:

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Originally Posted by dsmalex97

So how long would you say it took for you to have a constant supply?

Right now I have 7 females, 3 of them that were from a litter I just had, but being that they were female I just kept them to use as breeders. I also have 2 males. I'm just starting to get into this so I didn't want to start out with 12 from the get go. What I would like to do is just get a bunch of other females(until I have about a dozen) that are ready to breed, and start following that schedule that was on the sticky. I'm not sure if I get it. I'm just trying to figure out how to get it going the best. Any advice or just a decent walkthrough would be awesooooooooooome! I'm gonna go read that sticky again and see if I could get some more out of it.

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Originally Posted by dsmalex97

sorry I just read it again.

In a nutshell, I want to pair the male every two weeks to a different female. Now could I just start a new bin with one female, throw a male in for two weeks, add another female, wait two weeks, add another, and then start a new tub? So pretty much just having trio's in each bin, but starting with one female, and just adding females until I hit three in each bin(4 trios after all is said and done)?

So it should take like 6 months until I start having the right amount correct?

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Yeah, I'm actually still trying to get a constant supply. I got into rats about 4 or 5 months ago myself (and thankfully have a local friend mentoring me that bred them for years), and I've had a lot of baby snakes to feed as well this year that have taken a lot of my smaller rats (so obviously those rats didn't have the opportunity to grow up). I'm finally getting to the point of having a few extra larger rats to freeze and save for my larger snakes, especially now that many of my larger snakes have voluntarily gone off feed. When I started, I had adult rats (breeding size) but nothing else. No babies, and no extra small rats. So I started from scratch basically. And I'll be happy when they are producing enough to keep my snakes fed. LOL Hopefully it won't be much longer.

You can house multiple females with one male (many recommend a 3-4 females:1 male ratio, and there's a few that do 5 females per male). It's been a bit since I looked over that schedule, but I was thinking you want to breed one female every week? Rat gestation period is approximately 3 weeks, so if you add an additional female every week, you should have weekly litters, and when the first mom is ready to have babies, you're pulling her and adding a new female to the tub to breed.

I'm still housing 5 females with one male 24/7 while I'm trying to stock up. That way the moms are almost ready to have more babies once they get their first litter weaned. Not that that's necessarily good for the females, though. Once I can get some stocked up in the freezer, I plan to pull some females out for a good long break before deciding to retire them or use them as breeders again. Then maybe I can start actually cycling them and giving the moms time off between litters. But a good lab block rodent feed will really help the moms put weight back on after back-to-back births. Even they way I'm doing things now, I have many 12-baby litters back to back. And the biggest majority survive (though you will typically lose a few along the way). I've had some litters where all 12 survive, and plenty of litters where 10-11 survive. I'm hoping that once I can start cycling the moms to give them breaks, I'll have a few larger litters, though. ;)

Hope this helps you out some!

its been a lot of help thanks sooo much! I don't really have anyone around me, or have any friends that are into herps, or taking care of any critters for that matter. So you guys are my only source of "person-to-person" advice I can get haha!

I just looked at the schedule wrong, I'm a dummy, it is once a week haha. I don't have any babies so I won't have to shorten the small rat supply in my collection, so I'm hoping (4) 3:1 colonies will do the trick for me. I got them on 6F so they should be fine in terms of nutririon. I would like to be completely self sustaining at one point for my snakes, and not have to worry about finding feeders from someone else. I also visited the local pet store and was b/sing with the owner, and I mentioned to him that I breed, and might be interested in buying from me(told him 90 cents a rat)! So that would be cool to be able to sell as well. Maybe just start up another few colonies just for his store? I'm not trying to profit a lot, but if I'm already doing it ya know why not a few more, to make a few more $ lol.

I tell ya though it weird breeding rats. Cuz at first you set it all up and don't think much of it. But after tending to them so much, you really kinda start enjoying raising them up, and doing all the dirty work, regardless if there feeders lol. Really appreciate the help!! How many breeders did you have when you started snakegirl?

When I bought my rats, I bought an established colony from a guy who was getting out of it. There were 10 females and 4 males, though I've killed off and frozen 2 of the medium males (along with some other sizes that I've produced along the way). I'm holding back a few females to use as breeders, mainly after I read up on megacolon and learned that typically megacolon doesn't affect the hooded rats (something about megacolon being linked to pigment migration in coat color when the rat is first developing). For now I still have my older females, but once my new girls get big enough, I'll either retire or kill off some of the older females.

I do think it's a bit strange to be putting so much time and effort into the rats, and then I just feed them off. LOL And I'm really not heartbroken about it. ;) I guess it's because I viewed them as food when I got into it, so my mindset was already in place as them being feeders. It is pretty exciting though when I get a new litter of rats . . . "Hey, honey, one rat had 12 new pinks today! I can feed the younger snakes for 2 weeks on that! Oh, and two more females look like they're gonna pop any day now . . .YAY!" LOL My hubby typically just looks up from his book or video game and says "That's good." So I guess it's only exciting for me. :P :D

Yeah I love seeing a bunch of pinks rolling around, new life is always exciting even if it is a rat lol.

Thats nice you have am established colony like that. I have 3 2 months old or so females that I kept from a small litter I had. I figured being that I was starting to breed I would keep these, and buy another 4 to have 12 females all together, and just breed the youngest ones last last. How old should they be like 5 months? There starting to get big already there pigs lol so weight wise there doing great.

What is megacolon?

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Originally Posted by dsmalex97

Yeah I love seeing a bunch of pinks rolling around, new life is always exciting even if it is a rat lol.

Thats nice you have am established colony like that. I have 3 2 months old or so females that I kept from a small litter I had. I figured being that I was starting to breed I would keep these, and buy another 4 to have 12 females all together, and just breed the youngest ones last last. How old should they be like 5 months? There starting to get big already there pigs lol so weight wise there doing great.

What is megacolon?

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You want the females to be considered "medium" rats before you start breeding them.

Megacolon is, in short, a disease which affects the colon, causing it to enlarge. The long version is here: http://ratguide.com/health/digestive/megacolon.php

Hooded rats are the only ones (as I understand it anyway) that typically don't have genetic problems with megacolon (that's due to the genetic trait for megacolon being attached to the gene for pigment migration), and thus the reason why I am trying to hold back hooded rats to use as breeders. I only have one picky ball python as far as color goes, and even she will eat rats that are black and white (but she refuses solid black rats). That's not to say that any other color rat will absolutely have issues with megacolon, but hooded rats have the least chance. If I were breeding for certain colors/patterns I would try to determine which, if any, carried the megacolon gene and euthanize, but since I'm only breeding for feeders, color and pattern doesn't matter so much to me, so I go with the ones I hope will have lesser issues. ;)

i personaly keep females in one coloney and males in other colloneys have 30 breeding females and 10 studds but once i start breeding i thow 2 femels per male in a tub for a week move male out for 2 days of rest and once females are close to birth i seperat them into there own tubs and give females a feeder fish that almost instantly brings them back up to waight. once the pups reach 4 weeks and i can see they are all eating on there own i seperat them into tubs keep some females not usually no males. i crush the lab diet up for the younger pups they seem to have a hard time pulling it threw the top. by using the feeder fish my females have had littlers of 15+ all live and they seem to grow faster this way as well. so it is worth the 2 pennys i pay. i havent been able to breed the feeder fish so if any1 can help i would apricieat it.