Help! IDK whats going on!

Ok so i got Thor from the herp world expo on the 8th, found out he hadnt eaten in 10 days and fed him on the 9th. I was going to get another fuzzy for him yesterday but had an exam run late and couldnt make it and i know a day wont hurt him so i was going to wait till today, and then ehre is what i woke up to

http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/x...r/DSC_0087.jpg

what i dont udnerstand is he has poo'd, like a large goodsize one, since i fed him this... does this mean his fuzzy was too big and he needs a mouse hopper?

blah

What are you temps? and how do you check them?

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Originally Posted by jason79

What are you temps? and how do you check them?

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88-89(hot) 76-80(cold)during the day and 86-87 at night, humidity always between 55-65%. Air temps in the tank are 85-90

I have a thermometer in the tank which i check once or twice a day with a infrared to make sure its ok.

Hi,

First things first - after 8 days in a boas stomach there really shouldn't be anything like that left. :weirdface

Are you REALLY REALLY sure he ate it in the first place or didn't bring it back up the same night?


dr del

Sounds like temps are good. did you Handel him right after feeding? how long after he ate the rat did he regurge it?

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

First things first - after 8 days in a boas stomach there really shouldn't be anything like that left. :weirdface

Are you REALLY REALLY sure he ate it in the first place or didn't bring it back up the same night?


dr del

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i am 200% sure he ate it, its hard to miss the squeals or a rat pup when a boa hits it, and then i watched to make sure he ate it cuz he tried to eat it tail first before re adjusting and taking it head first. I have a bunk bed and i watched and took pictures of the whole thing from the top bunk out of view. His tank is in my room, like 3 ft from my bed and i check it every day to make sure and i know for a fact this is fresh because i changed his water yesterday

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Originally Posted by jason79

Sounds like temps are good. did you Handel him right after feeding? how long after he ate the rat did he regurge it?

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He was only handled for the first time three days ago (Saturday) which would have been 4 or 5 days after the feeding

Ok,

That's kind of worrying then.

It looks as though virtually no digestion has taken place - I'd normally have expected it to start rotting inside and cause major problems after 8 days.

I would triple check your temp equipment and get the temp where the snake has been spending its time.

And to be honest I'd be putting on a vet appointment and PM or emailing al the big boa breeders I could think of for advice in the meantime.

No body else might have tried to feed it or anything I take it?


dr del

I agree with dr del that rat doesn't look like it was eaten 8 days before the regurge. It should have been digested more I would think after 8 days.

no my parents are both deathly afraid of snakes and stay out of my room because they are in there. He kicks it the whole time over his heating pad which is the first thing i check every morning when i wake up and its always a solid 87.X-88X degrees.

I have an appointment in a few hours so hopefully he hangs on until then :please:

the onyl thing i noticed was weird with him was that he didnt move around much if at all. but i chalked that up to stress since he was smashed into a corner kinda like a BP would. He was responsive though so i didnt think anything of it

Hi,

Contact the person you got him from and let him know what trouble you are having.

Take the ir temp gun and shoot the boa's temp in the place he has been sitting. I just had the idea that reflective surfaces can mess with the readings but the snakes body should be the same temp almost which makes it a good double-check.


dr del

It is normal for them to stay in their hide all day and not move much. Mine do most of their cruising around at night and spend all day in their hides most of the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Contact the person you got him from and let him know what trouble you are having.

Take the ir temp gun and shoot the boa's temp in the place he has been sitting. I just had the idea that reflective surfaces can mess with the readings but the snakes body should be the same temp almost which makes it a good double-check.


dr del

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ok right now the ground says 88.4 and his body at its thickest was 87.9 and his neck and tail were both 88.2 so hes def warm. ugh

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Originally Posted by jason79

It is normal for them to stay in their hide all day and not move much. Mine do most of their cruising around at night and spend all day in their hides most of the time.

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he wasnt in his hide though, he was just pushed up to the glass. and i only sleep 3 or 4 hours a day and im up watching my snakes at night and he wouldnt move at night either

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Originally Posted by jason79

What are you temps? and how do you check them?

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TEMPS....TEMPS.....TEMPS. You have checked them and they seem fine...BUT..Is this the bottom temps, or the ambient air temps. Just because the bottom of the cage is one temp, the cage isn't the same.

Also, it doesn't look like 8 days since it ate it like someone said.


Ask whoever you got it from how they were keeping it. It makes a big difference with snakes. Most people don't realize this. A snake that's kept a certain way(like in a rack) may not do as well when kept in a tank.


What you need to do now is this. BG will get rid of the third person again.:D
Some people have already given some of the same advice as this.

I can't see the snake so I can't tell how bad it looks. It won't hurt anything to take it to a "qualified Vet", but it may not be needed. You need to decide.


If you don't take it to the Vet, you need to wait two weeks and feed it again a very small meal. Wait until it takes a #2 and then feed it again. Right now if you're not going to the Vet, you just really want to leave it alone and make sure it's habitat is perfect.

I know some people disagree with this(without expensive tests), but I give Flagyl to snakes if the regurgitate a meal. Experience tells me that there is a good chance they may do it again(boas are the worst), and Flagyl will usually stop this from happening. Flagyl is kinda a wonder drug.:gj:

Forgot. Like someone said. Make sure you don't touch the snake for a few days after feeding it.

Another thing I forgot. If the cage is too big, sometimes a snake will stay on the cool side and not digest it's food correctly.

haha thanks BG

I have been measuring both belly temps and ambient temps. This sitn my first snake, just the first oens ive had problems with. I just got back from the vet, they say everything seems good it might just not have been the right sized meal. He has been sitting on the hot side, which is a little why i dont understand the digestion thing, but oh well. Im waiting 3 weeks, giving a small rat pinky and going from there. I know my husbandry is spot on, hes on newpaper has a big water bowl which he goes in from time to time. I put another 20 watt light from my chameleon ontop of his cage for a basking spot where he usually hangs out just to warm him up a tad but were going to see from here. I jsut put him back in his cage and he is cruising a little bit so well so how he does tonight.

ill keep everyone posted, and put a picture of him up when i get back from school

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Originally Posted by SS4Luck

haha thanks BG

I have been measuring both belly temps and ambient temps. This sitn my first snake, just the first oens ive had problems with. I just got back from the vet, they say everything seems good it might just not have been the right sized meal. He has been sitting on the hot side, which is a little why i dont understand the digestion thing, but oh well. Im waiting 3 weeks, giving a small rat pinky and going from there. I know my husbandry is spot on, hes on newpaper has a big water bowl which he goes in from time to time. I put another 20 watt light from my chameleon ontop of his cage for a basking spot where he usually hangs out just to warm him up a tad but were going to see from here. I jsut put him back in his cage and he is cruising a little bit so well so how he does tonight.

ill keep everyone posted, and put a picture of him up when i get back from school

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Big Gunns wants to know EXACTLY what the Vet did. "EXACTLY" means, from the second you walked into the room with the Vet, until you left. BG is just curious how this Vet determined that "everything seems good". This story might be "good". When a meal is too big, it usually spits it up a lot sooner than this case. It may have been one of the contributing factors in this case though.

i totally agree with BG! Tell us EXACTLY what the vet did because i am a little concerned to hear a vet say "everything seems good" after i see a rat looking like that after 8 days digestion- it looks like it was mabey thawed and left out a couple of days- think these guys have digestive juices soooo strong that they DIGEST BONE and it looks like that rat barley touched that digestive juice. Now there is no way there could be a other explanation other then it was regurged 8 DAYS LATER? Like dr del said if there isnt that is kind of concerning

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Originally Posted by reptidude1

i totally agree with BG! Tell us EXACTLY what the vet did because i am a little concerned to hear a vet say "everything seems good" after i see a rat looking like that after 8 days digestion- it looks like it was mabey thawed and left out a couple of days- think these guys have digestive juices soooo strong that they DIGEST BONE and it looks like that rat barley touched that digestive juice. Now there is no way there could be a other explanation other then it was regurged 8 DAYS LATER? Like dr del said if there isnt that is kind of concerning

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It should have digested it more for sure. Temps are usually the problem, but not always.

true, even if the temp is cool- it should be more digested then that after 8 days in the stomach.....ss4luck wen u hold the snake, does he/she feel warm to the touch?

I had picture on my laptop that i showd him that ill post tonight when im out of class. It looks like the rat was never pushed far enough down to get down into digestive juices. By he looks good he ment minues being a little thing from not getting nutrients for the last 2 1/2 weeks its would be now, he looks healthy. Everything checked out in his mouth, thankfully i had his last #2 which looked clean and is being checked for anyy parasites or anything worrying. He is hydrated and a fairly friendsly snake.

He thinks the regurge was a combo of too big/never made it into the stomach/stress.

I called the breeder and they keep all their snakes in racks, minus their family pets which are kept in show cages, so im going down to target and going to get a sweater tub for him and see is that helps too.

The vet works with a dog rescue that i am involved in, er well the reptile vet knows the canine vet and the canine vet got me in for nothing cuz she said thor was a rescue.

i think that was all the questions.

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Originally Posted by reptidude1

true, even if the temp is cool- it should be more digested then that after 8 days in the stomach.....ss4luck wen u hold the snake, does he/she feel warm to the touch?

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warm isnt the right word, but he isnt cold. Hes jsut as warm as my BP's. I have an irregular temperature (its alot higher than most) so my sense of touch temperature is off a bit

I may be just re-stating what others have already said, but I'll throw my 2cents in anyways.

Whatever the reasons to the "why" your boa regurged are irrelevant as of right now. You're getting a tub to replace the tank and I'm going to just take for granted that you will double and triple check that all your husbandry is correct before you attempt feeding again.

What I would do is wait 2 weeks before attempting to feed again and feed a very small meal. The key is to get something in his/her stomach to stablize all those upset stomach acids. If the boa is usually eating a small rat, feed it a small mouse instead. It's the size of the meal that counts now, it's just getting those acids settled down and anything is better than another regurg at this point. After that, wait another 2 weeks and do the same thing...maybe a tad larger prey than the previous meal, but it's not of importance. From this point on, slowly bump the meals up to a very small bulge every 10-14 days.

If, by chance, your boa does regurg a second time...I would use a dietary supplement called NutriBACdf...it can be found at pet stores and at www.beanfarm.com

The use of this stuff for snakes is easy. You dip half the prey into the powder and then feed it to the snake. Using the same prey size I said before, half the normal sized prey as a normal meal. This usually does the trick if you then follow the steps above after this treatment. This stuff is very safe to use and is a miracle for curing regurges.

I wish you the best of luck.

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Originally Posted by SS4Luck

I had picture on my laptop that i showd him that ill post tonight when im out of class. It looks like the rat was never pushed far enough down to get down into digestive juices. By he looks good he ment minues being a little thing from not getting nutrients for the last 2 1/2 weeks its would be now, he looks healthy. Everything checked out in his mouth, thankfully i had his last #2 which looked clean and is being checked for anyy parasites or anything worrying. He is hydrated and a fairly friendsly snake.

He thinks the regurge was a combo of too big/never made it into the stomach/stress.

I called the breeder and they keep all their snakes in racks, minus their family pets which are kept in show cages, so im going down to target and going to get a sweater tub for him and see is that helps too.

The vet works with a dog rescue that i am involved in, er well the reptile vet knows the canine vet and the canine vet got me in for nothing cuz she said thor was a rescue.

i think that was all the questions.

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So let Big Gunns get this straight. The Vet said the meal was too big and it never made it to the stomach in 8 days????? BG knew it would be"good". :taz:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimiSnakes

I may be just re-stating what others have already said, but I'll throw my 2cents in anyways.

Whatever the reasons to the "why" your boa regurged are irrelevant as of right now. You're getting a tub to replace the tank and I'm going to just take for granted that you will double and triple check that all your husbandry is correct before you attempt feeding again.

What I would do is wait 2 weeks before attempting to feed again and feed a very small meal. The key is to get something in his/her stomach to stablize all those upset stomach acids. If the boa is usually eating a small rat, feed it a small mouse instead. It's the size of the meal that counts now, it's just getting those acids settled down and anything is better than another regurg at this point. After that, wait another 2 weeks and do the same thing...maybe a tad larger prey than the previous meal, but it's not of importance. From this point on, slowly bump the meals up to a very small bulge every 10-14 days.

If, by chance, your boa does regurg a second time...I would use a dietary supplement called NutriBACdf...it can be found at pet stores and at www.beanfarm.com

The use of this stuff for snakes is easy. You dip half the prey into the powder and then feed it to the snake. Using the same prey size I said before, half the normal sized prey as a normal meal. This usually does the trick if you then follow the steps above after this treatment. This stuff is very safe to use and is a miracle for curing regurges.

I wish you the best of luck.

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Big Gunns has never used that stuff, but he knows a few people that have used it and like it.:gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

So let Big Gunns get this straight. The Vet said the meal was too big and it never made it to the stomach in 8 days????? BG knew it would be"good". :taz:

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im no expert, im going off of what they said, it didnt sound right to me either, but ive quadrouple checked my husbandry, found a slight error (down 2*s from where i thought it was and am waiting to see how it goes. In 2 1/2-3 weeks ill try the eating thing one more time before i really freak out.

here are some picture of him from earlier today
http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/x.../Thor/tree.png
http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/x...Thor/tree1.png
http://i760.photobucket.com/albums/x...r/DSC_0089.jpg

he doesnt look "sick" to me ? :confused:

:edit: he is now on news paper instead of the substrate, taking anything that might cause a miss in my readings out of the cage

Hard to tell from the pics but I'd say that the meal was probably too big... boas are alittle more sensitive than ball pythons when it comes to big meals.

As for waiting 8 days to upchuck... that sounds very strange indeed! I've seen 8 day old rodents, and whether they were in a stomach or not they look a lot worse than that!

Well call up your vet and ask him some of these questions.. anyone could say they are a herp vet, and im assuming this was your first visit to him b/c u said you never had probs with your other snakes...
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ight=loyal+vet
Oh and thank Big Gunns for the great thred :gj:

yeah i saw BGs thread yesterday when i got home from school. I have since found a qualified vet, where all the chameleon people take their sick chams, and have absolutely 0 complaint with this guy. If your in So Cal/Orange County they recomended me to a Dr. Gross in Yorba Linda

so i think you should call are take your boa to him then if the problem persists, but if it goes away the great :)

took Thor to Dr. Gross today and ran down some questions for both snakes and chams lke BG had said and he was right on. He new that a male BCI will get between 5-7 ft on average, new that he had been dropped around 4 months ago, new a bunch of cham quetions. Told me all the meds he uses for reptilesm which included fortaz, baytril flagyl and all the other normal ones you see float around rep forums. He also had a picture of his retic and spider that he showed me and made me feel completely ok with everythign he was doing.

Def found a new vet

oh and he said besides being a little malnourished, thor was well hydrated and doing ok for not have eaten in 2 1/2 weeks. He double checked i was keeping him 88-91* belly and 77-85 ambient hot side range and 55%+ humidity without me saying anything about his husbandry. I mad sure i didnt say one word about how i kept him and he double checked EVERYTHING down to what heat pad/tape i was using, how i was controlling it and what i was using to measure temps. Great guy

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Originally Posted by SS4Luck

took Thor to Dr. Gross today and ran down some questions for both snakes and chams lke BG had said and he was right on. He new that a male BCI will get between 5-7 ft on average, new that he had been dropped around 4 months ago, new a bunch of cham quetions. Told me all the meds he uses for reptilesm which included fortaz, baytril flagyl and all the other normal ones you see float around rep forums. He also had a picture of his retic and spider that he showed me and made me feel completely ok with everythign he was doing.

Def found a new vet

oh and he said besides being a little malnourished, thor was well hydrated and doing ok for not have eaten in 2 1/2 weeks. He double checked i was keeping him 88-91* belly and 77-85 ambient hot side range and 55%+ humidity without me saying anything about his husbandry. I mad sure i didnt say one word about how i kept him and he double checked EVERYTHING down to what heat pad/tape i was using, how i was controlling it and what i was using to measure temps. Great guy

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So what did he say to do...and what did he do?

ill admit it, i didnt pay 100% attention to waht he was doing, i know that is my fault, and i should have been glued to everything, but he was just so smooth with what he was doing while he was talking to me that i hardly noticed Thor was in his hands. When i was paying attention he had Thors mouth open and was quite interested/concerned in making sure there were no cuts or tears in this beginning throat/mouth from claws or anything from the regurge. I took the picture of the rat wth me to show him and he was also quite concerend about the lack of digestion/decomposition and has completely baffled and said the only time he had seen that were when temps were WAY off, but i know mine are spot on, im religous about checking everything at least 3 times a day.

He recomended in 3 weeks or so i get a pinky and offer that to him and see if he eats that and keeps it down, and if he does then in another week and a half or so give him another pinky and make sure he keeps that down, then slowly raise the size of the meal given till it is an adequate size. He said i might lose a few inches off of the total length of my snake but ill have a healthy snake in the end, which is all i care about. He also pointed out how interesting his patterns and color breaks were and thought he was real pretty. He also made sure i was changing his water at least every other day, which i change every day anyway.

does that sound ok to you guys? i also noticed he double triple checked every inch of belly and scales from head to tip to make sure everything was ok. he also explained the difference between BCI and BCC to me without me saying anything but "oh hes just a common red tailed boa" just to see what he would say

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Originally Posted by SS4Luck

ill admit it, i didnt pay 100% attention to waht he was doing, i know that is my fault, and i should have been glued to everything, but he was just so smooth with what he was doing while he was talking to me that i hardly noticed Thor was in his hands. When i was paying attention he had Thors mouth open and was quite interested/concerned in making sure there were no cuts or tears in this beginning throat/mouth from claws or anything from the regurge. I took the picture of the rat wth me to show him and he was also quite concerend about the lack of digestion/decomposition and has completely baffled and said the only time he had seen that were when temps were WAY off, but i know mine are spot on, im religous about checking everything at least 3 times a day.

He recomended in 3 weeks or so i get a pinky and offer that to him and see if he eats that and keeps it down, and if he does then in another week and a half or so give him another pinky and make sure he keeps that down, then slowly raise the size of the meal given till it is an adequate size. He said i might lose a few inches off of the total length of my snake but ill have a healthy snake in the end, which is all i care about. He also pointed out how interesting his patterns and color breaks were and thought he was real pretty. He also made sure i was changing his water at least every other day, which i change every day anyway.

does that sound ok to you guys? i also noticed he double triple checked every inch of belly and scales from head to tip to make sure everything was ok. he also explained the difference between BCI and BCC to me without me saying anything but "oh hes just a common red tailed boa" just to see what he would say

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Sorry, BG is busy lately. Take the docs advice. You could probably get away with trying in two weeks, but three will be ok if your snake is not too skinny right now. Don't push it. Do what the doc said. If it regurgitates again, you're probably gonna need meds. Good luck.

i was going to wait 2 -2 1/2 because he is skinny. I got ahold of the breeder and he was dropped 3 months ago, so the extra week is a big time for him. Even though he hasnt eaten he has been drinking alot and has stayed hydrated and has actually gotten friendlier :)

ive had him out usually around 2 times a day for 10-20 minutes and he just loves to explore and cimb everywhere and even went through one my the plugs in my ear today. That scared me a little bit cuz i just was him getting stuck and me having to walk around with a pissed off snake in my ear till i could get my plug and snake ou lol

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Originally Posted by SS4Luck

i was going to wait 2 -2 1/2 because he is skinny. I got ahold of the breeder and he was dropped 3 months ago, so the extra week is a big time for him. Even though he hasnt eaten he has been drinking alot and has stayed hydrated and has actually gotten friendlier :)

ive had him out usually around 2 times a day for 10-20 minutes and he just loves to explore and cimb everywhere and even went through one my the plugs in my ear today. That scared me a little bit cuz i just was him getting stuck and me having to walk around with a pissed off snake in my ear till i could get my plug and snake ou lol

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Listen very carefully. Do not touch your snake AT ALL until it makes it through this problem. It may seem like it's nothing, but if it regurgitates another meal you have a real good chance of losing your snake. It is more serious than it appears....especially in baby boas.

Again....Don't mess with it!!!!!! Leave the snake alone and do what the Doc said. BG is starting to suspect your handling was the reason it regurgitated in the first place.

i hadnt handled it before it gurged. After it ate i gave him 3 days to himseld and then the one time i tried to he was WAY pissy so i left him be and jsut played with my BP.

i wont touch him till he eats again, no one had told me that. Thanks BG