Tail wagging good or bad ? I would say good so far

I have read that tail wagging is good and is bad. I also heard that they do it when they are not ready.

I observed it yesterday or should I say "heard" it.

I didn't know what to think until this morning. I opened up my bin and saw my little virgin (2yrs old) male mojave het ghost locked with my female lesser.

Well look like it's good. I have paired these, 2 weeks ago but saw nothing, and few days after the female was in shed, after it was the male. Now that they both have shed and that there is a low pressure around, I tried to put them up and see what happens.

I wish I get a few white head from this hehe.

And look like my other females are being receptive to my other male too. Looks like they are locked but can't be sure due to the position.

No pictures too, since I didn't want to disturb them and I didn't have my camera with me :(

Tail wagging occurs when female is in the presence of a male. She does this to spread her scent around and to let the male shes interested in mating. Its always a good sign

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

Tail wagging occurs when female is in the presence of a male. She does this to spread her scent around and to let the male shes interested in mating. Its always a good sign

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IMHO, tail wagging can be done by both sexes and its just saying "im stressed" sure they may lock up after, but some do and some dont.

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Originally Posted by irishanaconda

IMHO, tail wagging can be done by both sexes and its just saying "im stressed" sure they may lock up after, but some do and some dont.

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Unless you mean the stress of knowing a male is near and she can't get to him, I doubt stress has anything to do with tail wagging.

I have yet to catch a non-breeding snake tail wag :confused:
Yes both sex's will tail wag, but mainly females from my experience.

A baby axanthic tail-wagged at me the other day before trying to take a chunk out of my finger. Therefore, I am a proponent of the tail-wag = stress hypothesis.

Can't aregue with babies moving their tails before a strike, but I don't think the OP had that in mind.

Ralph don't lie....

YouTube - Ball Python Breeding footage - 01/26/08 part 3

i have a 1700g mojo female that wags her tail and will not lock up.

Maybe she needs a stronger male influence :P

So you think she's stressed out?

I've watched my girls wag tail, and not hook up after they wag, but that doesn't change why they do it :)

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Maybe she needs a stronger male influence :P

So you think she's stressed out?

I've watched my girls wag tail, and not hook up after they wag, but that doesn't change why they do it :)

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the lesser male that i have paired her up with has bred 4 other females within a hour of putting him in the tub with them, i have also tried to put her in the tub with him.... it isnt working. she doesnt wag her tail the whole time only for about 30 min of putting him in, then she stops wagging and sits on the oppisite side.she used to wag her tail when i would take her out when she was about 250g too, but now she only does it when i pair her up. i dont know why they wont breed but i am still trying, its just i dont think the tail wagging has much to do with breeding, just more of a "what are u doing in my space" kind of thing.

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Originally Posted by irishanaconda

i dont know why they wont breed but i am still trying, its just i dont think the tail wagging has much to do with breeding, just more of a "what are u doing in my space" kind of thing.

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Did you watch the video?
You can't say that tail wagging has nothing to do with breeding just because she wags and doesn't breed.
I've had that same thing happen, sometimes even when they wag they don't hook up, it's just a part of the whole process.
You can introduce and introduce and have nothing happen, and just when you least expect it, they do the deed.

I agree some snakes tail wag a bit when striking, but tail wagging during a pairing up is all about breeding and nothing about stress.

i have watched the vid, i watched it when it first came out, been on youtube for a LONG time. YES in that vid she is wagging her tail when they are about to hook up, ill SAY AGAIN, i think its more of a what are u doing in my space thing, than a i want to breed thing. its my opinion, have urs...prove me wrong, but unless u have a tail and scales... good luck. ralph isnt the only breeder in the world who has vids of tail wagging on the computer, i keep in contact with a few breeders who have over 200 ball pythons in their collection that they breed, this isnt the first time this question on the tail wagging has been brought up. call around and ask bigger breeders, dont just watch one vid and say this is how it is.

Actually just watching my snakes tells me what is up.

They also do it when the male isn't in the tub, running around scenting up the place, causing general havoc(water bowls are in danger) and "hunting" for a male.

So scenting, tail wagging and organ dragging is now a sign of stress? During breeding season?

I'm not looking for an argument or to change your mind, I just don't believe tail wagging has anything to do with stress when it is breeding season and a male is introduced.

Just my .02

Off to watch more videos of tail wagging, peace....

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Actually just watching my snakes tells me what is up.

They also do it when the male isn't in the tub, running around scenting up the place, causing general havoc(water bowls are in danger) and "hunting" for a male.

So scenting, tail wagging and organ dragging is now a sign of stress? During breeding season?

I'm not looking for an argument or to change your mind, I just don't believe tail wagging has anything to do with stress when it is breeding season and a male is introduced.

Just my .02

Off to watch more videos of tail wagging, peace....

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ok, so what do u think it is, im just wondering... u think its like a waving hand saying.. come over here i want to have sex?

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Actually just watching my snakes tells me what is up.

They also do it when the male isn't in the tub, running around scenting up the place, causing general havoc(water bowls are in danger) and "hunting" for a male.

So scenting, tail wagging and organ dragging is now a sign of stress? During breeding season?

I'm not looking for an argument or to change your mind, I just don't believe tail wagging has anything to do with stress when it is breeding season and a male is introduced.

Just my .02

Off to watch more videos of tail wagging, peace....

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and another thing.. at the very start of that vid u tried to use as a example, ralph specificly says "shes not happy hes there" ... u miss that part?

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Originally Posted by irishanaconda

ok, so what do u think it is, im just wondering... u think its like a waving hand saying.. come over here i want to have sex?

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Yes, it is scenting the tub up, you don't think they would drag their sex organs about if they were stressed do you?

its marking territory

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Originally Posted by irishanaconda

its marking territory

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My 1500 gram black pastel girl wagged tail as soon as temps dropped, and had never been in another tub with a male before.
She drug her stuff all over spotting up the paper, just as Ralph shows.
Why would she do this if she had never been introduced to a male? You think they would mark territory without ever being introduced to another snake?
I'm asking questions, don't take this wrong, I learn all the time, if I'm wrong I'll gladly admit it.

Everything I've read and from all the tail wagging I've watched,
leads me to believe it's a breeding thing only.
If you can point me to any info on the web that changes my mind, please do, I love to read.

i think she might have smelt other snakes either breeding or scenting as well. i have said this a bunch when in debate, call some of the top breeders, they love to talk ball pythons and they def have enough exsperience. go to king snake.com and look at some adds of people that breed them, call them up and just say u wanted to ask them some real fast questions.

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Originally Posted by irishanaconda

i think she might have smelt other snakes either breeding or scenting as well. i have said this a bunch when in debate, call some of the top breeders, they love to talk ball pythons and they def have enough exsperience. go to king snake.com and look at some adds of people that breed them, call them up and just say u wanted to ask them some real fast questions.

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I have asked one of the largest breeders, awaiting an answer :)
I will reveal their answer when I get a response.

I was hoping someone with might chime in :confused:

dont just call one, get more answers from other people.... if ur trying to call brian at bhb, try later in the afternoon.

This scent-marking behavior is done to spread pheromones around that a male snake can detect and follow. Likewise, when males tail-wag, they are advertising to other males that there is competition in the area, and to females that there's a guy around looking for them.

A female snake ready to breed tail-wags to spread her scent so a male can find her more easily. These pheromones also trigger his instincts so he will succeed in mating with them.

here is a quote from mr big guns himself ....
"It usually means somebody is not in the mood to breed, but not always. Just keep an eye on them if you are breeding. If you see nothing in a few days, wait a little longer to try and breed them"
it seems every one has a different opinion. ne one else care to chime in? snakesrkewl, did u get ne one to call u back?

From experience with my own snakes so far is all the females that have tail wagged so far have bred. My male bino tail wags sometimes and he has not gotten any action yet but he tries! LOL

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Originally Posted by irishanaconda

snakesrkewl, did u get ne one to call u back?

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I left a message on their reptilegeeks, usually I get a response fairly quickly, I will call them tomorrow if I don't get a reply tonight.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Actually just watching my snakes tells me what is up.

They also do it when the male isn't in the tub, running around scenting up the place, causing general havoc(water bowls are in danger) and "hunting" for a male.

So scenting, tail wagging and organ dragging is now a sign of stress? During breeding season?

I'm not looking for an argument or to change your mind, I just don't believe tail wagging has anything to do with stress when it is breeding season and a male is introduced.

Just my .02

Off to watch more videos of tail wagging, peace....

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Breeding is a stressful time for animals! In most the animal kingdom, it's not about fun & games. ;)

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

Breeding is a stressful time for animals! In most the animal kingdom, it's not about fun & games. ;)

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It's funny that smaller balls don't display the tail wagging at all, yet it's stress that makes the breeding ones wag?

The tail waggin little ones do is similar to a rattle snake shaking it's tail, it is not a sweeping motion with organs out.

Wingedwolfpsion said it exactly as I have read it many places, and have has it described to me by numerous breeders, I just won't quote anyone without their permission.

The tail wagging, tail swishing the OP mentioned during breeding has zero to do with stress(IMO)

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

It's funny that smaller balls don't display the tail wagging at all, yet it's stress that makes the breeding ones wag?

The tail waggin little ones do is similar to a rattle snake shaking it's tail, it is not a sweeping motion with organs out.

Wingedwolfpsion said it exactly as I have read it many places, and have has it described to me by numerous breeders, I just won't quote anyone without their permission.

The tail wagging, tail swishing the OP mentioned during breeding has zero to do with stress(IMO)

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i have also talked to many breeders, i am friends with quite a few of them and talk over the phone on a regular basis and i get the oppisite answers. did u get a answer back by chance?

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Originally Posted by irishanaconda

i have also talked to many breeders, i am friends with quite a few of them and talk over the phone on a regular basis and i get the oppisite answers. did u get a answer back by chance?

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With all of the large scale breeders that frequent this forum, I really wish more would be adding info to the topic?
I did not get a chance to speak to them*migraine day : (*
I seem to find way more post all over the net leaning my direction, but seriously, more input is needed here on the post, not on my phone.
I'm trying as much as anything, to educate myself and anyone else on this topic, since we've got it rolling.
The info on the web and in forums seems to lean towards scenting, which I do not believe is being done to ward of males, but to attract them.
Hatchlings don't do it, sub adults don't do it, at least I've not seen one do it.
Only adults.
I'd think if tail swishing and scenting was a stress thing, they'd do it much younger than they do, but I've never seen it in a ball python too young to breed.

This is a bit off topic, but my big female BP always wagged her tail a little bit when I fed her. It always reminded me of a cat. I never knew they did that until her.

She would coil herself up to strike, and her tail would begin to wag slowly back and forth, just like a cat about to pounce. When she hit the mouse, it would stop. The next mouse would start it all over again. The only time she did it was during feeding, we always fed her live.

So, could it have been stress? Was she seeing food and thinking something else? I always thought she just liked to do it.

Gale

i have also had a young female that wagged, the same mojo... she first started about 600g.

Some reptiles will wag their tail when they're preparing to strike--I suspect that, just as in cats, this is a sign that they are excited, lol.

However, I've never seen scent-marking done by a snake not interested in breeding. If the bin is a wreck, that's my sign that courting and breeding have been going on.

If the female isn't interested, she doesn't tail-wag. She shrugs and shoves the male, instead. Females will often shrug and push males around until the male gets into swing in his courting, and gets them interested, but if they aren't receptive, they will push him off until he gets the message, and then you find him curled up in the opposite corner sulking.

My girls usually just sit on their tails, or better yet they often just sit on top of the male when not interested.

This was how my breeding day went...

Cleaned females tub and laid out fresh paper towels in her 40qt tub and gave her fresh water.

An hour or so passes and I notice her scenting the tub, lots of yellowing and numerous blood spots.
I introduce the male and she threw her tail up immediately and started dragging her tail over him and wrapping him up.
She sat on him for a few, he escaped somehow(she's 2200 grams he's 900) and with in 2 hours they were solidly hooked up.
These two produced last year, same rituals, always tail wagging and then hook ups within several hours.

Not your everyday urate...
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...g/PICT1680.jpg

One hour after cleaning the tub, spotting and blood...
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...g/PICT1678.jpg

Dragging her stuff on him...
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...g/PICT1682.jpg

They spent awhile side by side cuddling...
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...g/PICT1703.jpg

And they are still locked after a few hours...
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...g/PICT1708.jpg