Possible New Mutation - Ashen Project

I don't post here very often, but I felt like sharing with you guys one of the highlights of my 2009 breeding season. This project started with a strange female ball python a friend of mine had that was imported around 2002. He knew she was something different when he got her, and he was calling her a weird ghost type (though she is clearly not a hypo). That friend got out of the hobby, and I ended up with this girl around 2005. She was sub-adult size at the time and hard to get on a steady feeding schedule between fasts until last year when she blew up from around 1000g to 1800+g. Anyway, this season was the first time I chose to breed her, and I paired her with my lemon pastel male. Out of 8 good eggs, I got 4 normals, 2 pastels, and 2 pastels that look like a cross (the second being more extreme than the first).

Since she appeared to reproduce herself, I decided to come up with a name. She resembles some which I've seen called "blurry", but as far as I know, none have been proven genetic yet, and I didn't particularly care for that name as it didn't describe her appearance well. I was thinking something more along the lines of "dusty" for a while. Anyway, after a bonfire at a friend's house, I decided I was fond of the name Ashen for the project, after the color of the mother's blushing.

Unfortunately for breeding purposes, both of the ashen pastel babies are females. Considering this, I decided to pair my orange ghost male with her in hopes of seeing if I can reproduce the mother's appearance a second year in a row, and work toward some Ashen ghosts a couple years down the road.

Anyway, enjoy the pictures, and let me know what you guys think! It's pretty hard to capture their colors in the picture, but the ashen pastels have a lighter, more tan look to them, and the reduced eye-stripes and head blushing of their mother. I'm very excited about seeing what I'll get from this project in the future. :D

Ashen Mother:
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...fashen01_3.jpg

Newly hatched Ashen Pastel Females:
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...ast01-08_1.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...ast08-08_1.jpg

Comparison - Ashen Pastel vs. Pastel:
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...20091110_4.jpg

Ashen Pastels Post-Shed:
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...ast01-08_4.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...ast08-08_3.jpg

Thanks for looking!

~Russell Lawson

I must be missing something...I don't see anything different..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

I must be missing something...I don't see anything different..

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The biggest difference was clearly visible when they hatched, as the heads are much lighter than any regular pastel I've seen. It looks like it tweaks the pattern a bit, with reduced spotting on the sides, and more blushing than normal) - hard to say that though, with the pastel mutation also tweaking the pattern. Additionally, there's the color. It's different from a regular pastel, but that comparison picture isn't the best for that. I can try to get a better one, but I don't have the best camera in the world. Basically these 2 looked different enough from the other pastels in the clutch for me to believe that there is a possibility of this being a new mutation, and it appears to be working as a type of dominance.

I have a girl that looks somewhat similar. She has virtually no alien heads. Here is a pic.

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/v...d/Dscn0380.jpg

Here is a better comparison picture. Hope this helps show better what I am saying about the difference.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...20091110_7.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

I have a girl that looks somewhat similar. She has virtually no alien heads. Here is a pic.

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/v...d/Dscn0380.jpg

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One of the regular pastel males I got in this clutch actually looks somewhat bit similar to your girl there, but he doesn't share the other characteristics in common with the mother that these two girls do. Here's a picture of him.

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/d...0091101_18.jpg

beautiful looking pastel, good job:gj: I hatched out a male that looked very similar. The amount of blushing on his head made me think he was a super but turns out he wasn't. good luck with the project, I hope to see some cool looking snakes!

I definitely see something. Can you take a picture with your Ashen Pastel next to a Pastel so I can really compare?

High flames, nice blushing, and a slightly reduced pattern.

Its sutble, but its there. Its like a semi-super.

The problem is there is a huge variance of difference between the pattern, color & blushing in normals and pastels. I do not see anything different from what I would expect to see.

Before you start naming new lines, I would send pictures to some larger breeders and seek their opinions.

Keep in mind, I am not trying to piss on your parade, but many people will agree that you need to do multiple breeding tests to prove out a morph if there isn't a pretty obvious change from what is expected from existing lines of that morph.

If you look for a horse in ink blob, you will find a horse.

Rick

You know whats odd about that? I have pretty much the same thing going on. I posted some threads awhile ago about my CH 03' female (normal dinker) & my CB 07' Pastel's clutch last may. I kept the most unusual female from that clutch. She is bright orange with solid black pattern. Picked up most of the pattern from the mother (normal dinker) Including the bat shaped bands the mother has. They hatched bright neon yellow but this girl turned orange and black almost like a halloween ball. The others from the clutch are bright blonde pastels with decent blushing now.

I wonder if we have some of the same genes going on?? I'll send ya pics if you would like to see what im talking about. Cool looking pastel BTW :)

I agree that I'd be cautious and do a lot more breeding trials. I too have hatched pastels from pastel X normal clutches that resemble your Ashen pastels-there is just a very wide range of pastel appearances, and some can almost look like supers (one I hatched could have easily been sold as a super by a less scrupulous person).

Your picture of your ashen female looks normal to me-but you stated the trait isn't captured well in a photo.

It looks like a good project, I've got several of them like that myself. I haven't named any of them yet though.

Hmmmm...

...Those are nice pastels...but to be honest, they are nothing out of the ordinary...


Perhaps they are one of those "have to see in person" snakes...?

the "blurry" ball A.K.A "velvet" ball is genetic as far as I know I have a breeder female I bought as a velvet and she proves to be genetic (recessive) I havent mixed her with other morphs yet but there might be something there.

Good job on the Pastels I see a slight difference but nothing too crazy, goo dluck witht he project