Stargazing

This morning my Bp had his head and about 6 inches of his neck is an S shape vertically looking straight up against the glass of his tank. He did this for maybe 20 mins before I got him out to see if anything was wrong. This was the first time he did that, and he has been eating and shedding normally. He also has been possibly wheezing. I am honestly not sure if it is a wheeze or a hiss. He hasn't been breething with an open mouth or excreting any mucus. What does a wheeze sound like in BP's?

I doubt it has anything to do with IBD unless he was intermingling with other snakes recently.

You probably just startled him as he was exploring and he stopped moving because he saw you.

Wheezing alone isn't really enough to say if he is sick or not. They can "wheeze" for a few different reasons. If you startle them they sometimes exhale quickly and make a whistling or wheezing noise. Hissing is pretty distinctive though. "TSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS" with an angry looking snake. I have a snake that does this every time you open the tub but it is all show!

Keep an eye on him, if you notice symptoms of an RI or something else off then go see a vet.

This could be early signs of an RI. They will prop themselves up on the glass to help with mucus drainage. The weezeing could be an early sign also. Don't panic, watch him, and if these or any new symptoms are still around in a day or so I would consider a vet trip. In the meantime I would probally bump up the heat a little, this will help his immune system if it is an RI but will not hurt him if it's not.

The slight possible wheezing has been going on for like 2 weeks. He has definetely not had contact with any other snake for at least 11 months.
Talking in hypotheticals here, but if I do take him to the vet and they say he has an RI and put him on Baytril, how much will it all cost?

He definetely doesnt make noise every breath

I guess that can vary...here a standard visit is around $55. No idea how much the baytril shots would run, we give our own injections when needed and I don't remember what the injections run but it's cheaper than taking them back for each shot if you can give them yourself.

If you can use the side of a pen (as if it was a speculum) to gently open the snakes mouth, look inside at the back of the throat. If it's full of flem, it's early stages of RI and should be treated immediately. If it's not full of flem, it could be some retained shed inside it's nostril and will come off/out in time.

If the temps in the enclosure are not warm enough, too damp, too dry, etc. the snake could get an RI without exposure to other snakes. You could also carry RI (like spreading the flu on your hand) from someone elses snake to yours.

Based on your description and the time of year, I would check for flem buildup and nip this in the bud before it gets worse if you find flem.

Rick

Well, I did what you suggested. I don't know what flem would look like, but I don't think he has any. Would it be at the beginning of the "throat hole?" because that looked completely clear.
Before I did this, I noticed his belly was pink and he is due for a shed. Now, the more I think about it, I don't think this was going on before he last shed.


They have really weird mouths! I dont understand where they keep their tongues. Like a third of the bottom part of his mouth is a like orange-red flesh thing. There is no pus, but it other pics online its more red-pink. Is this a cause for concern?

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

He definetely doesnt make noise every breath

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That is a good sign. But when you say breath do you open mouth breath or just 'lying and minding his own buisiness' breath?

He doesn't open mouth breath at all

if the belly is pink you may wanna make sure the temps on the floor where he's laying arent too high, that can cause that pinkish hue to the belly, if his hide is right on the heat and its too hot he'll get that, i think there are other reasons for it tho, just suggesting that tho. good luck with him! :/

The temps are fine and he is due for a shed

Turn the snake with his head and upper body hanging straight down and hold him that way for at least a minute or two. Then check for signs of bubbles, spit, or mucous coming from around his lips and nostrils. If his mouth isn't full of spit at that point, it's probably not RI.

Another sign--place your hand under his body, where his lung's located (check an anatomy chart if you're not sure). If he has an RI, you will probably feel a clicking, rattle, or vibration inside him as he breathes.

If he continues to sit with his head angled upward, this is another sign of an RI. Stargazing is more extreme in appearance--a stargazing snake will generally be looking straight up, with its head flexed back at an unnatural-looking angle, and will show other signs of ataxia and weakness. Once you've seen photos or vid of a snake stargazing, you won't mistake an RI for it again.

Caution--the following are hard to watch if you love snakes.

Here's a vid of a Redtail boa with IBD.
YouTube - Inclusion Body Disease (in a red tail boa)

This boa is stargazing:
YouTube - snake with ibd

This is a ball python with IBD: YouTube - sick snake

Another BP with IBD: YouTube - Snake problem

Yet another: YouTube - My python before it died of IBD :/

For contrast with all of this, here is a very good video of a Spinner ball with a bad wobble:
YouTube - Spinner Ball Python Wobbling
You can see the difference as the snake eventually rights itself and tongue-flicks normally, and the shaking of the head which is the actual 'wobble' referred to with this condition.

Thanks WingedWolf that was very helpful
After watching the vid of the snake star gazing, I realized my bp's action was different than that. Seth(my bp)'s head was definetely not upside down.
I conducted the first test. Let me tell you: Seth does NOT like being vertical lol.He definetely did not secrete any spit or anything. When I looked in his mouth, between the sides of teeth, like (1-1) If you imagine that to be his mouth with the parentheses the outside of his mouth, the 1's his teeth and the - between the two sets of teeth, there was some saliiva and small bubbles there, but I am assuming that is normal. A few minutes later after I did the test, the bubbles were still there.

I also tested if he was able to right himself, and he was.

His nose was pointed straight up when he "Stargazed" this morning.

Your snake just probably has some stuck shed in its nostril or some loose skin from the upcoming shed.

I think trying to diagnose your snake with IBD is a big extreme. Unless the snake has been in contact with other snakes or boas then there is no reason that he would just randomly get IBD.

The bubbles may NOT be normal, but of course we can't tell just from a description. Snakes don't usually have a lot of saliva in their mouths. I would keep an eye on him, and re-do the upside-down test every day for a few days, particularly if you see any further suspicious behavior. If you see more bubbles or any sign at all of spit coming out around the edges of his mouth or nose, even briefly, get him to a vet right away.

(Unless they've just been drinking water, snakes shouldn't drool).

The bubbles are very small. They are near where the mouth ends and the neck begins,if you know whAt I mean.

Wow those are really hard vids to watch!

I can't believe how bad that wobble on the spider is...holy smokes :O

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

The bubbles are very small. They are near where the mouth ends and the neck begins,if you know whAt I mean.

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Just a few bubbles is normal. No worries. If your snake has a RI, you would know without a doubt. Just watch your temps and humidity, it will probably clear up after the shed.

Rick