Quarantine Question - from a RN

So when I have a patient in the hospital with "isolation precautions" it's a big deal. We wear isolation gowns... there are strict processes to follow and we have access to big time chemicals which can't even kill organisms with 100% success. My point is this from a microbiology perspective... for the normal hobbyist, there is no way you can truly "quarantine" an animal in a home. Hell, you can't even do it in a hospital.

So I had some follow-up questions...

1. People separating animals in different parts of the house. Some people on here elude to the fact that some BP's have "airborne" diseases? Hello like human TB? Do we need the reptile equivalent of N-95 respirators? I think not. What is an airborne BP disease? I googled and cannot find anything.

2. Mites. Problematic yes, but immediately recognized and treated. Does this really require a 3-month quarantine?

3. Internal parasites. Tricky. But again, why do you need a 3 month quarantine if your vet does a fecal check.

4. What is the "worst" anyone has seen happen to their collection from a new acquisition. Has anyone taken chances by a short quarantine process and have things work out?

Is there anything I'm missing here? Granted I work on a code team and work with dead people all the time, so maybe I don't get freaked out that easily anymore. It just seems like a crap shoot and if your snakes get something it all seems treatable in the end.

Thoughts?

I think IBD can kill them and is contagious.

IBD. Not treatable. Dead snakes evrywhere. I know of a few people who are great friends of mine that have lost a lot of snakes from poor QT.

Here is the reson you QT for mites. Say snake comes in, gets delivered and all of that. You open package set it up in new tub. Now you just took the snake in it's bag that it has been sitting in for quite a few hours to your other snakes right. You open the bags set them on a counter and put snakes in tubs and notice a few mites. Well how many of those mites are still on the bag and have now run off to not be seen? You just got mites in your entire collections and what if they are carriers of IBD? you just lost your entire collection from poor QT.

That is the reason for strict QT and a really good one IMO.

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Originally Posted by TaylorS

So when I have a patient in the hospital with "isolation precautions" it's a big deal. We wear isolation gowns... there are strict processes to follow and we have access to big time chemicals which can't even kill organisms with 100% success. My point is this from a microbiology perspective... for the normal hobbyist, there is no way you can truly "quarantine" an animal in a home. Hell, you can't even do it in a hospital.

So I had some follow-up questions...

1. People separating animals in different parts of the house. Some people on here elude to the fact that some BP's have "airborne" diseases? Hello like human TB? Do we need the reptile equivalent of N-95 respirators? I think not. What is an airborne BP disease? I googled and cannot find anything.

Airborne....haven't heard of one yet, but who knows with some of the new bacteria and resistant crap popping up in collections now a days. I think most problems come from direct contact with an animal. Mites and ticks are also vectors of parasitic pathogens, as well as dirty water/dirty cages.

2. Mites. Problematic yes, but immediately recognized and treated. Does this really require a 3-month quarantine?

Not really, but it's best to treat for at least a month as the eggs will hatch. Also, mites can and will travel, so any nearby animals can also be infected without proper quarantine.

3. Internal parasites. Tricky. But again, why do you need a 3 month quarantine if your vet does a fecal check.

Some animals take longer to defecate, this is just ONE part of an animal you need to check when you quarantine

4. What is the "worst" anyone has seen happen to their collection from a new acquisition. Has anyone taken chances by a short quarantine process and have things work out?

People have lost WHOLE collections due to improper quarantining.

Is there anything I'm missing here? Granted I work on a code team and work with dead people all the time, so maybe I don't get freaked out that easily anymore. It just seems like a crap shoot and if your snakes get something it all seems treatable in the end.

Not everything is treatable, I recently had to put down a snake I had that came in with an RI. IBD is also not treatable. You also never know what an animal might have in it's system, sometimes it takes time to show itself. A 3 month quarantine is ALWAYS a VERY smart thing to do.

Thoughts?

Quarantine the animals, buy from trusted people. A lot of people have invested lots and lots of money into their collections. So, WHY SKIMP on something as simple as a quarantine to risk losing everything?

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Totally agree, I just wanted to know the thought processes behind quarantine and assessments one could make off the bat. From what I've read, IBD is transmitted through mites... yikes. Diesel *knock on wood* has never had any mites.

Your snake that came in with an RI... did you see secretions coming from the snout? What were the first signs and symptoms? And do you know what a normal respiratory rate is for a ball python?

IBS is always fatal in Ball Pythons, but can remain dormant in Boas for it's whole life with no ill effects. Yes, IBD can be transferred through mites, hence the importance to quarantine, just in case.

Bubbly mouth, bubbles out the sides of the mouth, snot blowing out the nostrils, open mouth breathing, wheezing, hacking, elevated head to assist breathing, nose rubbing, the animal I got it did all of this. She also had mites.

This could have EASILY gotten to the rest of my collection had I not quarantined. The RI she had was resistant to every antibiotic we threw at it despite Culture and Sensitivity results. It being resistant, I'd have lost ALL my animals.

Normal respiratory rate....pretty low.

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Originally Posted by TaylorS

Totally agree, I just wanted to know the thought processes behind quarantine and assessments one could make off the bat. From what I've read, IBD is transmitted through mites... yikes. Diesel *knock on wood* has never had any mites.

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Originally Posted by TaylorS

Your snake that came in with an RI... did you see secretions coming from the snout? What were the first signs and symptoms? And do you know what a normal respiratory rate is for a ball python?

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I personally go by the better safe then sorry QT practice :gj: It really makes no difference if they are in the same room with my established collection or not. It makes it eaiser but does not really matter either way. The only reason I could think of or see doing a 3 month QT as a pain or a problem is if you do not have a QT area.

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

IBS is always fatal in Ball Pythons, but can remain dormant in Boas for it's whole life with no ill effects. Yes, IBD can be transferred through mites, hence the importance to quarantine, just in case.

Bubbly mouth, bubbles out the sides of the mouth, snot blowing out the nostrils, open mouth breathing, wheezing, hacking, elevated head to assist breathing, nose rubbing, the animal I got it did all of this. She also had mites.

This could have EASILY gotten to the rest of my collection had I not quarantined. The RI she had was resistant to every antibiotic we threw at it despite Culture and Sensitivity results. It being resistant, I'd have lost ALL my animals.

Normal respiratory rate....pretty low.

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Hey thanks for the info :) I see that you are in Lee's Summit, I was born and raised in Kansas City, went to KU School of Nursing... I miss it!!!

No problem!

Yeah, residing in LS!

I work at KU quite often as a contractor, and am quite familiar with their School of Nursing program.

Congrats on that!

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Originally Posted by TaylorS

Hey thanks for the info :) I see that you are in Lee's Summit, I was born and raised in Kansas City, went to KU School of Nursing... I miss it!!!

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I'm sorry, but please clarify what is IBD? I'm not very good with acronyms, and just got back into herps after a small hiatus.

It stands for "inclusion body disease" Also known as star gazers. It causes loss of normal motor skills such as constricting and striking. Also I believe one of the side effects is mouth rot. It is always fatal in boas and pythons but I believe boas can live with it in their system and never have it come up.
Hope this hellps a little bit

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Originally Posted by TaylorS

And do you know what a normal respiratory rate is for a ball python?

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Interestingly, it's going to vary depending on oxygen availability. Snakes and many other reptiles have the ability to switch their metabolism to anaerobic operation, and slow their oxygen use dramatically, when oxygen is not available. This is why snakes can get a respiratory infection that nearly fills their lungs with fluid, and still survive it. They elevate their head when sick (which would seem contrary to common sense at first) in order to expose more oxygen-collecting surface, as fluids pool in the lower part of the lung and cover less area. Since they don't need much, this works.

The mechanisms behind all of this aren't well understood yet, but suffice to say--they don't need a whole lot of air in order to survive.

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Originally Posted by TaylorS

4. What is the "worst" anyone has seen happen to their collection from a new acquisition. Has anyone taken chances by a short quarantine process and have things work out?

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You can likely not quarantine an animal from a reputable source and be just fine. There are risks, which is why QT is recommended.

The "worst" I've read about is an entire collection of pricey animals going down the tubes. Thousands upon thousands of dollars of dead ball pythons due to IBD.

IBD is tricky, but one thing when reading stats on IBD is to be a bit critical with them.

MOST boas that contract IBD do indeed die from it, as most will contract it as hatchlings. They can carry it, but that is very much overblown. Does not mean that precautions should not be taken. The risk is there, so it should never be ignored.

Must keep in mind that any boa that is a carrier, can pass it to other boas, who will not all contract it and have it lie dormant for years (meaning snakes will start dying). So once it is in a collection, it should tend to present itself very quickly.

The stats on IBD are very skewed, as they are dealing with necropsies, which are very expensive, and would only be performed on snakes in which IBD was suspected. So the focus is VERY narrow. One study claims 40% of boas are carriers... when it was 40% of boas tested, assumed to have IBD, tested positive for it.

As far as ticks and mites, it has already been stated, but yes, they are very easy to deal with, but I would do a 3 month QT on any snake that I got that came with mites because they can transfer ANY bloodborne pathogen.

I am afraid I do not have the links but there was a form of IBD (or a very similar pathogen) that is was suspected had indeed become airbourne. And I believe (again, I am trying to recall this) it was because there were cysts in the animal's lungs (much like when ebola became airborne)... but that being said, snakes cannot cough (no diaphragm)... so again, this may be why this one sort of dropped off the radar.

Bruce

PS: I wish I had bookmarked it, but Jimi (and he is the man to ask about boas) had an amazing thread on this site regarding IBD and boas. Probably one of the best I have ever read.

Something to keep in mind when quarantining animals is that in order to do it effectively, you must work with the animals from "clean" to "dirty." That is, don't change the water or cage paper in the quarantine snake cages and then go and work with the resident snakes. Always work with the resident snakes first and then the quarantine snakes last. Also, one should have dedicated equipment for the quarantine snakes (a separate hook, spray bottle, etc). I deal with quarantine snakes at the end of the day, wear gloves when handling them, and don't touch the resident snakes or their equipment until the next day, after I've showered and changed clothes.

When we get a new snake, the first thing we do after taking it out of the bag is treat it for mites. The bag and shipping container are then tossed in the dumpster.

The three month quarantine is not for mites, it's for other diseases. Three months gives the new snake plenty of time to develop signs due to viral and bacterial disease that may appear due to stress of shipping & being in a new environment. In my opinion, three months is a minimum, but six months is better.