Early Birthday...I need some love and some answers

So today is the 9th my birthday is tomorrow and this morning I woke up to a terrible odor in my bedroom. After taking out the trash and some other things I realized the odor was coming from moy closet where I keep my four bp's. Daisy and Sparticus are 07's I've had since babies (Sparticus is a spider), Nefertiti I bought last year as a sub adult and my purchase a few months ago Cleopatra a 2200g proven breeder. Anyways I notice that Cleopatra's tub is slightly agar so I open it up and she's not in it. This was the first time one of my bp's has escaped so I was freaking out. I looked around and could not find her until I open up Nefertiti's tub to see a very fat and very dead Cleopatra...

I have never heard of bp's eating each other and the husbandry was all good (I really don't need people telling me what I did wrong right now). Has anyone else ever heard of this? I just took Sparticus out two nights before and nothing happend to him. Also if anyone knows how to get dead snake smell to go away please let me know. I almost threw up when I open Nefertiti's tub. Also Cleopatra had been eating large rats once a week and would eat more if I would have let her. She was extremely cage aggresive but after I would get her out she would be fine. She had not slowed down at all on the eating even though she had been breeding with Sparticus for about a month.

Anyways, I am pretty upset about all of this I went from four pythons and expecting up to a dozen (Nefertiti and Cleopatra had both locked with Sparticus) to just two pythons and Daisy is only 1000g so I'm not going to bed breeding her yet. I also had plans to get a female pastel either '08 or '09 when I got my birthday money and probably a hypo and a het sometime at the begining of the year. Now I'm wondering if I should just give away my last two and move on.

On top of all of this I was diagnosed with depression two weeks ago, so I guess happy early birthday to me. I could really use some love right now from the bp.net community and some help getting rid of dead snake smell.
Thanks guys.

****Correction: I just found Cleopatra under my armoir, I think I mistook the identity because Nefertiti must have swollen up after passing and they were both in shed. I apparently was just a coincidence that Cleo escaped on the same night. I still don't know what to do because now I know there must have been something else going on and I might have two other sick pythons. Nefertiti had gone completely off of food but I thought that was because of breeding. I think a vet visit is going to be in order for my survivors.

That's terrible, but, at least you only lost 1! Here's hoping that the others are either not sick or that a vet visit catches whatever it is early enough to save them.

How are you heating these snakes in your closet?

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

How are you heating these snakes in your closet?

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UTH's under all of the tubs and a ceramic heat emitter to raise the ambient temperature in my closet to about 82 degrees. Hot spots stay about 90. I had lowered the ambient temp. for breeding season though. I don't think that could of had anything to do with it. I have had some issues with keeping humidity up in the past but it has been pretty steady in the 50-60% range the past few months after I added an automatic mister. Then again you know alot more about python's then I do BGs so if you see something wrong with that I am open to some help because I don't want to loose any more snakes.

thats a huge bummer! sorry.. but thats life i guess.. you gotta roll with the punches.. dont give up though, its too easy..

i'm a little confused though, was it the male or female that died?

and what makes you think your other snakes are sick?

oh and happy bday.. dont take any depression pills, you dont wanna walk around like a zombie for the rest of your life.. just tell yourself that with 50% of the good things in life comes 50% of the bad with it..

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Originally Posted by adam_degel

thats a huge bummer! sorry.. but thats life i guess.. you gotta roll with the punches.. dont give up though, its too easy..

i'm a little confused though, was it the male or female that died?

and what makes you think your other snakes are sick?

oh and happy bday.. dont take any depression pills, you dont wanna walk around like a zombie for the rest of your life.. just tell yourself that with 50% of the good things in life comes 50% of the bad with it..

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Thanks man. I was a female that died (Nefertiti) sorry if that was confusing with one python escaping and the other one dying on the same night. I am worried the other ones might be sick because I had been pairing Sparticus my male spider with Cleo and Nefertiti (both females). Since Nefertiti died with out me really noticing anything to odd I am worried my two others could have whatever she had with out me noticing with them either. I don't want to get rid of them but if this is something that I should of noticed and prevented then maybe my other guys would be better off in the care of someone else.

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Originally Posted by adam_degel

thats a huge bummer! sorry.. but thats life i guess.. you gotta roll with the punches.. dont give up though, its too easy..

i'm a little confused though, was it the male or female that died?

and what makes you think your other snakes are sick?

oh and happy bday.. dont take any depression pills, you dont wanna walk around like a zombie for the rest of your life.. just tell yourself that with 50% of the good things in life comes 50% of the bad with it..

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Depression is a medical condition that requires treatment in order to keep the right balance of chemicals in your brain. Why would you tell someone to not seek treatment?

OP: I would take all of the snakes to the vet and get a necropacy(sp?) Done to determine the cause of death. Don't give up on them though! Karma will come around and give you something awesome for your birthday!

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Depression is a medical condition that requires treatment in order to keep the right balance of chemicals in your brain. Why would you tell someone to not seek treatment?

OP: I would take all of the snakes to the vet and get a necropacy(sp?) Done to determine the cause of death. Don't give up on them though! Karma will come around and give you something awesome for your birthday!

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cause there's lots of different forms.. usually some counseling and a different outlook on life could help someone with minor depression, now bi-polar syndrome is a bit more serious and thats where the chemical imbalance comes from.. but i guess thats the problem with our society.. we all just run for the pills that say they can fix us...

anyways.. do you think that that maybe there was a complication during the breeding process that may have been triggered? do your other snakes seem the same or are they acting different?

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Originally Posted by adam_degel

cause there's lots of different forms.. usually some counseling and a different outlook on life could help someone with minor depression, now bi-polar syndrome is a bit more serious and thats where the chemical imbalance comes from.. but i guess thats the problem with our society.. we all just run for the pills that say they can fix us...

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Bi-polar disorder and depression are two completely different disorders.

My friend was being treated for depression for years with no impact on her condition. She was then diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder. They got her on the correct medication and there was a 180* change in her day to day mood.

There is a difference between being sad and being diagnosed with depression. If you are diagnosed, you and your doctor are the only people that can determine how to make you better. This can include medication, counseling, therapy, or a combination of those things.

Telling someone to not take their pills because they will turn them into a zombie is not a smart thing to say to someone who was recently diagnosed.


Sorry this is so off topic OP. This is just a subject that irks me a bit..

ok well he said depression not bi-polar so chill out ok!?

Oh my goodness...I don't even know what to say other than I am sorry to hear that happened.

I would definetly follow thru with the vet...if anything piece of mind ya know!!!

Happy B day and I think for your B day your other female is going to have eggs. (not on your b day of course but soon after) There...that is my good ju ju for you!!

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

Oh my goodness...I don't even know what to say other than I am sorry to hear that happened.

I would definetly follow thru with the vet...if anything piece of mind ya know!!!

Happy B day and I think for your B day your other female is going to have eggs. (not on your b day of course but soon after) There...that is my good ju ju for you!!

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Thanks that's nice of you to say and I hope I do to.

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Originally Posted by adam_degel

cause there's lots of different forms.. usually some counseling and a different outlook on life could help someone with minor depression, now bi-polar syndrome is a bit more serious and thats where the chemical imbalance comes from.. but i guess thats the problem with our society.. we all just run for the pills that say they can fix us...

anyways.. do you think that that maybe there was a complication during the breeding process that may have been triggered? do your other snakes seem the same or are they acting different?

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My depression wasn't the main reason I posted, I was just throwing myself a pity party this morning. My brother has been on anti-depresents for about a year and he hasn't had any bad side effects but that's going to be up to my psychologist....Anyways back the main reason I posted....I don;t know about a complication during the breeding process, she did go off of feed pretty quickly but she was never that great of an eater to begin with. As for the other ones Cleo is still a pig as always and Sparticus is eating as big of meals but he's still eating pretty regularly. Other then that I haven't noticed anything weird with the other two and the vet check should tell me if there's anything wrong.

Pictures of the dearly departed...Please excuse my shirtlessness, these are the most recent pics.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...t_20090923.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...20090923_1.jpg

sorry bout that.. i was just trying to be positive.. i've had some family problems dealing with bi-polar that i dont wish to discuss.. but depression is extremely common and i was just trying to bring a different light to it.. sorry for going off topic.. hope you get things with your snakes figured out! keep me posted

That is terrible & I really hope you get a big clutch of adorable babies to cheer you up in a few months.

Nefertiti is the one that died right? You got her as a sub adult? Was she CB from CB parents? If not its possible she had parasites. I would definately take the others to a vet. Bring a fresh stool sample from each as soon as they go again. Have your exotics vet do blood work, a mouth culture, check the vent etc..

To make sure non of the others are sick. If it wasnt a virus chances are it wasnt passed to the others so dont get too worried yet. Parasites & RI are the most common problems & those 2 are the least likely to be passed along in a clean proper enclosures to healthy snakes. (notice I said least likely)

Keep us informed on the snakes and eggs.

As for your diagnosis. Just be smart about it. If they put you on something and a few weeks later you are getting worse then tell your Dr. Some of those drugs can be dangerous if its not the right one for you. Please try to aviod benzo's though. Extremely habit forming, very hard to get off of & they begin to work in reverse if you are on them too long.

Good luck and a sincere happy birthday :bday: :headbang: Dont get rid of your snakes. They bring you more happiness than you think. I lost my largest females brother 7 years ago. I took her in for treatment. Saved her life & vowed to never buy from that particular store again. Shes now my best breeder :)

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Bi-polar disorder and depression are two completely different disorders.

My friend was being treated for depression for years with no impact on her condition. She was then diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder. They got her on the correct medication and there was a 180* change in her day to day mood.

There is a difference between being sad and being diagnosed with depression. If you are diagnosed, you and your doctor are the only people that can determine how to make you better. This can include medication, counseling, therapy, or a combination of those things.

Telling someone to not take their pills because they will turn them into a zombie is not a smart thing to say to someone who was recently diagnosed.


Sorry this is so off topic OP. This is just a subject that irks me a bit..

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I have also known people who we're 'terminal' with a disease and came back when doctors and western medicine could do nothing.
My father had depression, and it was diagnosed, and managed to beat it without any medication but with alternative methods.

Anyway, I'm so sorry about your loss. Snakes will swell up when they're dead and the heat pads are under them. If you can, take the snake to the vet for a necropsy to make sure it didn't have anything severely wrong with it. I would also recommend taking the other animals for a check-up and letting your vet know all the details.

Good luck, think positive and HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! :bday:

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Originally Posted by adam_degel

sorry bout that.. i was just trying to be positive.. i've had some family problems dealing with bi-polar that i dont wish to discuss.. but depression is extremely common and i was just trying to bring a different light to it.. sorry for going off topic.. hope you get things with your snakes figured out! keep me posted

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It's okay I was the one who brought it up to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Draigess

That is terrible & I really hope you get a big clutch of adorable babies to cheer you up in a few months.

Nefertiti is the one that died right? You got her as a sub adult? Was she CB from CB parents? If not its possible she had parasites. I would definately take the others to a vet. Bring a fresh stool sample from each as soon as they go again. Have your exotics vet do blood work, a mouth culture, check the vent etc..

To make sure non of the others are sick. If it wasnt a virus chances are it wasnt passed to the others so dont get too worried yet. Parasites & RI are the most common problems & those 2 are the least likely to be passed along in a clean proper enclosures to healthy snakes. (notice I said least likely)

Keep us informed on the snakes and eggs.

As for your diagnosis. Just be smart about it. If they put you on something and a few weeks later you are getting worse then tell your Dr. Some of those drugs can be dangerous if its not the right one for you. Please try to aviod benzo's though. Extremely habit forming, very hard to get off of & they begin to work in reverse if you are on them too long.

Good luck and a sincere happy birthday :bday: :headbang: Dont get rid of your snakes. They bring you more happiness than you think. I lost my largest females brother 7 years ago. I took her in for treatment. Saved her life & vowed to never buy from that particular store again. Shes now my best breeder :)

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Yah it was Nefertiti that died. I thought it was Cleo and Nefertiti at first, I think that's what's causing the confusion. I bought as a sub adult some time in January, but she was 1548g when I started pairing her a few weeks ago. She was CB I couldn't tell you for 100% certainty if her parents were but I don't it could be something like RI or she prob wouldn't have made it almost 10 months. I don't think I'm going to get rid of my balls anymore, I was just kind of freaking out this morning and I just want what's best for them. I'm definately going to hold off any getting any more, though, until I get this figured out. I guess it's kind of good it happend now instead of right after me spending a bunch of money on a new python. Thanks for the birthday wishes!

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

I have also known people who we're 'terminal' with a disease and came back when doctors and western medicine could do nothing.
My father had depression, and it was diagnosed, and managed to beat it without any medication but with alternative methods.

Anyway, I'm so sorry about your loss. Snakes will swell up when they're dead and the heat pads are under them. If you can, take the snake to the vet for a necropsy to make sure it didn't have anything severely wrong with it. I would also recommend taking the other animals for a check-up and letting your vet know all the details.

Good luck, think positive and HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! :bday:

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Yah in retrospect it makes sense about Nefertiti swelling up. That and both my females being in shed caused the mistaken identity. I'm going to try to get into the vet asap. Thanks for the nirthday wishes!!

sorry to heere about the snake it does happen. I had 2 bpsI kept together ( before i knew beter ) as well as a ceder cage ( for 4 years) I never had a problem or anything. I founda home for the ones snake and the other one was fine then came home one day door the room door and (I did get sick ) it appeared the bp that I kept died for no reason. I could onlything of 2 possible reasons at the time. 1 lonelyness since it had a cage mate it entire life. 2 some unknown medical condition that causes it death.. I never knew about ceder posioning or anyting back then. The sad part was the snakes came with the cage. I kept my other 2 snakes for 3 more years in the cage ( black rat and the corn ) until I aquired a total of 5 snakes then I built a single large cage to house the 2 ( newer) bps , the black rat and corn snake as well as the boa slim. and never hada real issue outside they figuer out to push on the door and the top would give enough to allow exit of the cage.

IT took me 3 days to get the smell out totally , I slept with the windows open and a fan pushing air outside and another pulling it in from another section of the house. I would suggest taking hte tub/cage if possible outside and allowing it to air out a week or so if possible for the smell.

I say the snake death could been anythign from stress, age, illness, or even a birth defect that kicked in.

Yah, mechnut, I'm hoping it was something that I couldn't of prevented or isn't contagious to my other snakes. I've had the windows open all day and it's starting to smell alot better. I threw the tub in the dumpster that it was in, I think that helped alot but it still does smell a bit in my room.

Also, I just fed my pythons and they all ate, so if not eating was a symptom for Nefertiti then the other guys are okay in that respect.

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Originally Posted by AMPearce

Yah, mechnut, I'm hoping it was something that I couldn't of prevented or isn't contagious to my other snakes. I've had the windows open all day and it's starting to smell alot better. I threw the tub in the dumpster that it was in, I think that helped alot but it still does smell a bit in my room.

Also, I just fed my pythons and they all ate, so if not eating was a symptom for Nefertiti then the other guys are okay in that respect.

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Chances are it wasnt contagious. Its not worth getting all worked up over. Just get some poo and take those other guys in for a check up soon to be on the safe side.

You hear horror stories of people losing entire collections due to one sick snake but how many people has that actually happened to? Very very few. More often its mites that infest entire collections.

Alot of illness can go un noticed for a very long time. RI can go on for many months or more if the snake has a strong immune system and the husbandry is correct.

Just dont get get too worried about the others just yet. They are probably fine. They are eating and breeding. If they are nice & thick, breathing fine, clear nostrils, shedding fine, clean pink mouth, then I bet everyone else is ok. That girl must have had something for a long time. Snakes are like birds that way. It takes a trained eye to notice any illness. They hide it well.

So sorry for your loss, thats an awful thing to have happen. I hope your other snakes are okay and give you some beautiful babies soon.

To try to clear up all the nonsense about depression flying about: (actually thats not quite true, some of it is fine, but its awfully muddled at this point).

Like every other mental illness the actual mechanisms of depression are not actually very well understood. Drugs work very well in some cases, but drugs are essentially a blunt hammer. They work by altering neurotransmitter levels in your brain, however, each neurotransmitter does many different jobs in several locations, and only one or two of these are disordered in depression, the side effects from the drugs are the effects on the other transmitter sites.

The numerous therapies that are available for depression also achieve the same effect as the antidepressants, but in the opposite directions (drugs alter your neurotransmitters, thereby altering your mood and thoughts, therapy alters your mood and thoughts, which causes your brain to restructure itself, which ends the depression).

Different therapies work for different people, but we don't understand what sometimes makes one effective over the others. Therapy actually makes a better firstline treatment to depression since it has no side effects (and is usually concluded in 8 weeks or so), but for some, therapy doesn't work and drugs are either much better, or the option

That said, it can also work the other way, for some people drugs are ineffective but therapy will work wonderfully. You'll have to see what works for you, personally, try not to rule anything out of hand.

Snakes can just die for no visible reason at all(just like people). You should be able to tell if they are sick. Although, if they are on the "verge" of sickness, it can be hard to tell. You're going to need to keep a good eye on them, and double check everything(temps..etc..) to make sure it's ok.


It's not gonna hurt anything to take them to a Qualified Vet. Again...emphasis on QUALIFIED....if you're worried about losing another one.


Here's Big Gunns solution to feeling depressed. Look in the mirror(BG's buddy) at a healthy person. Then go to a local hospital and look at the sick people. Watch the news when they interview the relatives of the recent shooting. You'll soon realize that your life is not that bad.

If all else fails. Watch comedy sitcoms all day....and read Big Gunns posts. You'd be surprised what this can do for yah.:D