Small Collection Owners / Ban Poll

Just say there was a new law banning a type of reptile that you own was implemented within your state.

You only have 1, 2, or 3 of that kind which gives you a small collection.

Do you risk a fine and keep them?

Or do you adopt them to others outside the state?

Or do you move?

To be honest it depends on their value to me. If I had 3 angolan or woma pythons I would just have to risk it because those 2 have been on my wish list for a few years. If I just had my normal male BP I would also risk the fine. I would only consider moving if i had a larger collection. Selling/adopting them out would be a last resort but I don't think I would have to consider that with 3 snakes.

I would risk it..

I would never risk getting the fine. We, as responsible herp owners, should set a good example, and NOT promote illegal activity.

I would probably get on here and see if some of the experienced herpers had some room for a couple more. Or, move. Depends on how close to the state border I am.

By telling the community "it doesn't matter if you ban them, I'm going to keep them anyway" we are not looking very responsible. We need to work with them and try to come to an agreement before they get banned. If they do, then those are the rules, and we can either live with them or leave. Would you rather give your pet to someone who will take care of it, or have it removed by animal police to be put down?

I already break enough laws, why not one more? lol.. (am I kidding? That's for me to know and you to guess I suppose.)

I'm keeping them if there illegal I'll just lobby hard as heck to reverse the govt intrusion. Take on the important problems in the world leave us alone!!!

Hey guys...

I just want to make some things clear. The situation being discussed here is purely hypothetical, and therefore we will allow it to continue. It IS a question we will all have to face and consider IF the anti-pet lobbyists ever get their way.

But...(there's always a "but!")...BP.net does not now, and will never, condone breaking the law. And it is against our Terms of Service for members to encourage the breaking of laws or to imply that they are engaged in such things. If the discussion here gets out of control...a few things may happen. Individual posts may be infracted and/or removed....the thread may be locked....or the thread may be deleted altogether....depending on how far down the rabbit trail it gets before staff can get it under control again.

Anyhow...I just wanted to give a little heads-up about that. Please be careful. Thank you.

how would anyone know about your collection? If you were just low key about it, no one is going to knock door to door or anything...I'd keep what I have and just keep under the radar.

That depends--if I have only a pair of the animals, how much value do I have invested in them? I might move if I have sunk a lot of money into them. I think I would sell or adopt them to someone out of state, if they weren't of high monetary value.

I would certainly not keep them and risk problems to the rest of my collection and business.

I bet a high perecentage of people on this site already keep their animals illegally, i guess im not allowed to say "I do", but i will say check your city's laws, you might be surprised. i know i was surprised.

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Originally Posted by pilot511

how would anyone know about your collection? If you were just low key about it, no one is going to knock door to door or anything...I'd keep what I have and just keep under the radar.

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Thats one of the problems. Alot of people dont want to keep there collection low key. People have the need to show off. Everytime I drive threw clinton south carolina there is always a kid and his parents walking down the street with a burm wrapped around his neck. Its something Ill never understand clinton is a bible town filled with elderly people that are terrified of snakes and they just dont want to see them. If alot of people wouldnt draw attention to themselves then some of the hype with these laws wouldnt come up.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I bet a high perecentage of people on this site already keep their animals illegally, i guess im not allowed to say "I do", but i will say check your city's laws, you might be surprised. i know i was surprised.

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You do have a good point. You can just go with state laws you have to check your city and county laws as well.

I would definitely keep them. The way I see it "it's not illegal until you get caught". LOL> I would love to see someone try to take my animals from me. :taz::taz:

As much as I hate it, I would stop all breeding plans and keep them all as pets. I have no availability to move and I don't know who I'd be able to give them to or how I'd transfer them if they became illegal.

So I'd be pretty much stuck with them anyway because I won't put them down. :(

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Originally Posted by JLC

Hey guys...

I just want to make some things clear. The situation being discussed here is purely hypothetical, and therefore we will allow it to continue. It IS a question we will all have to face and consider IF the anti-pet lobbyists ever get their way.

But...(there's always a "but!")...BP.net does not now, and will never, condone breaking the law. And it is against our Terms of Service for members to encourage the breaking of laws or to imply that they are engaged in such things. If the discussion here gets out of control...a few things may happen. Individual posts may be infracted and/or removed....the thread may be locked....or the thread may be deleted altogether....depending on how far down the rabbit trail it gets before staff can get it under control again.

Anyhow...I just wanted to give a little heads-up about that. Please be careful. Thank you.

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Personally, I disagree with this stance and think this thread needs to be removed now. You do not even have to be a member of this forum to read the threads and a thread contemplating breaking the law will only add fuel to the fire. Just my 2 cents.

Hi,

I would agree. You don't want to mess with US government. They do not have a sense of humor and you can not win. Really think about what you are saying when you would consider going to jail and paying monster fines for keeping your animals illegally.

Regards,
Bill

I would risk it for a while, and then when we are ready to move from the new house we bought, I'd look for another house outside the state if it was possible!

more government intrusion to protect us from ourselves.

what a bunch of crap.

I am sorry, they will have to pry them from my cold dead hands.:salute:

Hurray for government misunderstanding its "responsibilities".

If my state did an outright ban, I would move. This would be a cop-out, but I already am wanting to move, because of multiple laws here that I do not agree with in the slightest. CCW, MMJ, Freedom of Speech, ect.. :colbert:

If I was somewhere I liked, I would fight tooth-n-nail. It's not right of them to do things like this, and if they pass such restrictions and find no resistance, there is no stoping further and more extreme legislation. Foot in the door, people, it's what they've been doing for a long time now....I don't know how so few of us see that. Thankfully BPnet is full of the smart ones :D:gj::banana:

When there is a pinhole leak in the dam, you don't ignore it; you try like heck fix it before it explodes open and takes the entire structure down.

The governemtn already knows regardless of what they do people will still own these animals. They mentioned that yesterday at the hearing. I cant remember his name but he was sitting in the middle

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Originally Posted by Denial

Thats one of the problems. Alot of people dont want to keep there collection low key. People have the need to show off.

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Everytime someone comes here complaining about getting in trouble with apartment neighbors because of their snake, it was because they were walking around outside with a BP around their neck. Jeez people I know it SHOULD be ok to walk around with your pet, but at least recognize the dangers and protect yourself!

I have to say I am EXTREMELY surprised by most of the answers on this thread! This is a PERFECT example of why our hobby is under the microscope! To them this is nothing more than illegal drugs being made and traded or sold! Personally, I would UNDERSTAND the ban newly passed. Then see if your animals are grandfathered in and pay the proper permits to LEGALLY keep what you have. If you plan to breed and sell them, then get the proper permits needed to again LEGALLY do that. You think people like BHB and RDR have been successful by breaking the law? NO! Read your local laws and decide how much it is worth to you. Just know that you are also ruining it for the rest of us!

Just my two cents.

I love my Ball Pythons too much to give them up. I will do whatever is necessary to legally own them, but sometimes you just have to put your foot down for what you love.

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Originally Posted by Louie1

I have to say I am EXTREMELY surprised by most of the answers on this thread! This is a PERFECT example of why our hobby is under the microscope! To them this is nothing more than illegal drugs being made and traded or sold! Personally, I would UNDERSTAND the ban newly passed. Then see if your animals are grandfathered in and pay the proper permits to LEGALLY keep what you have. If you plan to breed and sell them, then get the proper permits needed to again LEGALLY do that. You think people like BHB and RDR have been successful by breaking the law? NO! Read your local laws and decide how much it is worth to you. Just know that you are also ruining it for the rest of us!

Just my two cents.

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I would consider me keeping my snakes as civil disobedience. IMO if all the snakes that have been mentioned are banned then the govt didnt do its job. While I do agree that restrictions should be put on some of the larger boids, I dont agree with the bans. Maybe requiring a permit (and not some outrageously priced permit that no one can afford) that certifies you to keep the snakes.
Our hobby is under the microscope because they don't understand it and felt it would be an easy win.

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Originally Posted by Louie1

I have to say I am EXTREMELY surprised by most of the answers on this thread! This is a PERFECT example of why our hobby is under the microscope! To them this is nothing more than illegal drugs being made and traded or sold! Personally, I would UNDERSTAND the ban newly passed. Then see if your animals are grandfathered in and pay the proper permits to LEGALLY keep what you have. If you plan to breed and sell them, then get the proper permits needed to again LEGALLY do that. You think people like BHB and RDR have been successful by breaking the law? NO! Read your local laws and decide how much it is worth to you. Just know that you are also ruining it for the rest of us!

Just my two cents.

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There may not be permits available. This is not like drugs that can be just thrown away and forgotten about, these are living animals that need our care in order to live.
Also, we're not talking about current laws, we're talking about a national ban on python and boa species. There may not be a way to legally get a permit and own or breed them at all after the ban unless your a wildlife expert or for educational purposes.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

There may not be permits available. This is not like drugs that can be just thrown away and forgotten about, these are living animals that need our care in order to live.

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I think that's the main difference here... I just couldn't give up a cherished pet, and love for them would trump my "obedience" for the law. If I were told a material item was illegal, it would be much easier to comply - but my pets are like family, and nobody can force me to give away a family member. :mad: Heck, I'll move to Canada if I have to!

Not going to vote or answer the poll question. All im going to say is snakes are like fish in the way that they are very relaxing. A snake is one of those pets that can actually calm a person down greatly just by watching it in its cage. Holding it can be even more relaxing.

Those people who own snakes and care about them know this. You can not be angry or stressed with your snakes. Not only because you know it can stress your snake, but also because you know the snake simply has the ability to put you in a completely different state of mind when you get home from a busy or stressfull day.

Snake owners will defend their pets just as strongly as anyone else. Those who really love their animals as pets that is..

Unfortunately there are people who only own a snake for the shock value of it. The "danger" or how cool it seems to their friends. I know someone who only owns a large snake because he thinks its cool & enjoies the thought of having something that everyone else is afraid of. He does not take care of his snake and is actually afraid of it to the point he has someone else feed it!

At a local show yesterday I overheard a young guy say rather loudly, and full of pompous attitude, while walking past a display of BPs.. "these people dont want a snake that gets 10 feet or more like WE do cuz they're afraid. They only want these stupid little ones".

I was fuming when I heard that. Its the people like that who make these bans a reality.

Its a pet. Not a "cool" display trinket for your house. Many of the snake owners probably do not have any idea what they would do if those snakes were banned. How can you ask us what we would do in a hypothetical situation like that? That decision would depend on the stipulations of the new laws. There will alot of fine print to study. This is not a question that can be answered unless it actually happens.

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Originally Posted by Louie1

I have to say I am EXTREMELY surprised by most of the answers on this thread! This is a PERFECT example of why our hobby is under the microscope! To them this is nothing more than illegal drugs being made and traded or sold! Personally, I would UNDERSTAND the ban newly passed. Then see if your animals are grandfathered in and pay the proper permits to LEGALLY keep what you have. If you plan to breed and sell them, then get the proper permits needed to again LEGALLY do that. You think people like BHB and RDR have been successful by breaking the law? NO! Read your local laws and decide how much it is worth to you. Just know that you are also ruining it for the rest of us!

Just my two cents.

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If you agree that your fellow reptile lovers pets should be banned you need to find another hobby! No I dont think people like bhb and rdr have been successful by breaking the law but what are you trying to imply by that statement?

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Originally Posted by Denial

If you agree that your fellow reptile lovers pets should be banned you need to find another hobby! No I dont think people like bhb and rdr have been successful by breaking the law but what are you trying to imply by that statement?

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I see this one going badly...

They didnt say they agreed. I believe what they meant is if the law was passed that would make sure that they understand the law, then the required permits etc etc. NOT that they understand the reasons behind passing such a law.

Maybe I misread it then

The way i see it is if the govt bans them then i want a bail out. The banks got a bail out. And i want top dollar.

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Originally Posted by Darkice

The way i see it is if the govt bans them then i want a bail out. The banks got a bail out. And i want top dollar.

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I wish it could work that way..

Wouldnt it be nice if we could use the banks & automotive companies bail-outs ar an example?

Tell them now we cant get our money back. We have invested thousands apon thousands in our snakes & now cant earn any of that back so we want a bail-out.

Problem is they would never take the time to check the facts & see that it really is a huge investment & much more than just a pet or hobby for some.

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Originally Posted by Denial

If you agree that your fellow reptile lovers pets should be banned you need to find another hobby! No I dont think people like bhb and rdr have been successful by breaking the law but what are you trying to imply by that statement?

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Yes, I think you misread my post. I don't agree with the ban AT ALL. I love this hobby and love the snakes I work with. My son, only 4, also loves this hobby and I would hate for him not to enjoy this hobby like I have. What I am trying to say is IF it did get banned, then understand the new law and abide by it. Most of the time when a ban gets past the animals are grandfathered in. They usually required that to buy a permit to keep them legally. So bottom line DON'T break the law and DON't suggest breaking the law.

Sometimes I wish I was brave enough to actually keep snakes and not just pretend.....

Sigh.

well i dont mind being opinionated.... i wouldnt care what the people say on this fourm really... if i wanted to keep somthing that was banned, i would.

My Ball pythons mean a lot to me, and if there did happen to be a ban like that in my state, I would not move, nor would I give them to someone else outside of the state. I would risk the fine and keep them. But if someone tries to take them away from me because they are illegal, I would move.

THEY WILL NEVER GET MY SNAKES OR MY GUNS EVER!:salute:

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Originally Posted by greghall

THEY WILL NEVER GET MY SNAKES OR MY GUNS EVER!:salute:

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Keep an eye on the IRS. They are closer to taking away guns from legitimate owners than they are to taking away snakes...

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

Keep an eye on the IRS. They are closer to taking away guns from legitimate owners than they are to taking away snakes...

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This.

..and I love your sig, btw. haha.

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Originally Posted by greghall

THEY WILL NEVER GET MY SNAKES OR MY GUNS EVER!:salute:

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If they want it they will TAKE it, including your car, your house, your land, anything you own, and they won't ask permission either:rolleye2:

It is sad that in a FREE country we have to worry about our pets being illegal to have :O . Kinda makes you wonder what happened to our freedom's :salute: that so many good soldiers risk there lives to keep and we can't own a snake. I love America more then anything well 3rd after god, family and stuff but am just so sad about these H.R. bills that been coming out :(

lance

agree with lance i know 3 snakes at a local reptile shop that are re-homed till the solider owner get home, and its complete bullhooey that ther risking human lives for (not to start a reson war) a war thats reason is grey anyway, "um hey i watch 3 of my frineds die today, but i fought my hardest for my country, back home, were's my snake, oh my country banned it..um ok. also hase anybody took a long hard look at expos, that alotta cash being pumped into the economy, so yea i get that this thread isn't the smartest but people are people and opnions are right

Let's not forget people that our great country is founded by patriotic people who have had the courage to question their government. All of the laws in this country are made exclusively by elderly, wealthy, white, males. Not a very good representation of we the people. They do not speak for me.

Just because something is law does not make it right.

After fighting the passage of the law with everything I have (and losing according to this hypothetical scenario), I'd move to another state.

People being disenfranchised with the government isn't new and it isn't going away any time soon. We are too diverse a society for anything close to 1/2 of us to ever be happy.

Breaking laws should be a private matter. Don Corleone said it best when he told his son, "never let someone outside the family know what you're thinking." Some things are best held close to the chest.

This theme that the individual is powerless against the government is flawed. When individuals organize they become powerful and government is compelled to listen. My simple message: Join the National Pet Association (http://www.natpet.org). Since I have to go to work tomorrow they are my voice in the House and the Senate.

My delegate in the House of Representatives was a lowly city council member a little over 10 years ago. He got involved and stood up and said, "I'll do it." Rather than referring to government as some distant and untouchable entity we should become more involved. What if you had a seat on the local city council? Or what if you were a delegate in your state's government? You could be a voice for the rights of pet owners, adding a measure of sanity to the discussions that tend to be fear-based. It's not for all of us, of course, but somewhere within this community...

Cheers,

honestly if this happens.. its going to become as much of a joke as the ferret law in california... last time i read.. it was like 75% of all ferret supplies sold in the us, are sold in california.. if you want some humor... google "ferret laws in california"

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Originally Posted by lance

It is sad that in a FREE country we have to worry about our pets being illegal to have :O . Kinda makes you wonder what happened to our freedom's :salute: that so many good soldiers risk there lives to keep and we can't own a snake. I love America more then anything well 3rd after god, family and stuff but am just so sad about these H.R. bills that been coming out :(

lance

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you dont think we have freedom?? in a lot of countries we would be killed for what we have said about the law and such