how much money does it cost

to start a breeding company?


how much did u guys/girls spend on your breeding rooms.

A BUNCH! And the spending ya it never ends:)

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Originally Posted by andrewrks123

to start a breeding company?


how much did u guys/girls spend on your breeding rooms.

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This question is way too vague.

Well I only have 2 snakes and haven't even started breeding yet (nor will I for about 3 years) and have well over couple of thousand invested once I make the new rack purchase. Not to mention we are planning on dropping another grand in a week at the convention. UGH........imagine what the breeders are dropping. Thank goodness I have a hubby that I keep telling....Oh sweetie...eventually it will pay for itself...lol. For now he is buying it!

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

Well I only have 2 snakes and haven't even started breeding yet (nor will I for about 3 years) and have well over couple of thousand invested once I make the new rack purchase. Not to mention we are planning on dropping another grand in a week at the convention. UGH........imagine what the breeders are dropping. Thank goodness I have a hubby that I keep telling....Oh sweetie...eventually it will pay for itself...lol. For now he is buying it!

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Man thats a rough lie to tell your hubby. I used to tell that one to my wife until I learned what I learned. Now I just tell her, "Hey, we might always be in the red. But were gonna produce some cool loooking animals, I promise."

How many snakes do you want? Are you looking at normals? Doms/co-doms/hets/recessives? How old do you want these snakes to be? Immediately breedable or are you willing to wait?

How are you going to be housing them? Do you plan to go the rack route? Buy one or diy one? Use some other method?

Where are you going to house the snakes? Will the room have supplemental heating? Do you pay for all your utilities?

How are you going to house the babies? Another rack? Again, buy or diy?

Where are you going to incubate the eggs? Buy one? Make one?

Where are you going to purchase your feeder rodents from? Are you going to breed them yourself? If so how and where do you plan to house them? If no, are you going to get a separate freezer for your feeders or is your current one big enough to handle a large amount of frozen feeders?

There are so many variables. If you started small and slow - which is the smart way for anyone just starting so they don't become overwhelmed - then it will be a lot less than if you transform your spare bedroom into a mini-facility and pack it full of double doms/co-doms and double or triple recessives. You could spend $1000 or you could spend $100,000 or you could spend even more...

The money is only part of the cost of doing business. The part that people tend to forget is the time and effort. Cost is relative the part that you can't budget for is time.

Example we have around 100+/- animals not including the hundreds of rats. It takes me (going full tilt with no interruptions) a good 2-3 hours to clean and water every one. That's once a week. Then it takes two guys the same amount of time for rats not counting the daily flood checks and what not. Then it takes about 2-3 hours a week to feed and update records. Add in the amount of time needed to answer emails, phone calls, update the web site ect, dealing with shipping and ordering supply's, even with our few animals we're looking at between 10-15 hours a week.

Add in the tens of thousands of dollars in animals and equipment, the cost of power, heat, give away's..

the cost is directly proportional to how active in the market you are.

I didn't even cover travel cost, shows, show supply's, vet visits, ware and tear on personal vehicles. All of that is a cost of doing business.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

The money is only part of the cost of doing business. The part that people tend to forget is the time and effort. Cost is relative the part that you can't budget for is time.

Example we have around 100+/- animals not including the hundreds of rats. It takes me (going full tilt with no interruptions) a good 2-3 hours to clean and water every one. That's once a week. Then it takes two guys the same amount of time for rats not counting the daily flood checks and what not. Then it takes about 2-3 hours a week to feed and update records. Add in the amount of time needed to answer emails, phone calls, update the web site ect, dealing with shipping and ordering supply's, even with our few animals we're looking at between 10-15 hours a week.

Add in the tens of thousands of dollars in animals and equipment, the cost of power, heat, give away's..

the cost is directly proportional to how active in the market you are.

I didn't even cover travel cost, shows, show supply's, vet visits, ware and tear on personal vehicles. All of that is a cost of doing business.

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Great post! Lots of good information there!

I would also like to add in a few things. First, you must also consider how difficult it will be to sell your babies at first, before you have established a well known reputation. This is especially troublesome for someone like myself, who only has a few clutches a year. I would classify mine more as a self sustaining hobby than a business, and I still have a few thousand dollars and countless hours invested in animals and supplies and care. There is a certainly a lot to think about!

Hi,

I have put in about 15K over 2 years but my wife and I make very good money. Anyone that knows me knows I spent this money so I could breed out snakes I wanted to have in my own collection. I remember spending 130.00 dollars on my first thermostat and I spent two weeks trying to find the right one, than I spent 100 bucks on hides. That expense killed me just because it was about 3 pounds of molded black plastic. Now when I have to spend money, if it is 200 dollars or less it is a piece of cake. I have not cut many corners and I have put a lot of time and money into about a 25 snake collection and it will pay off soon. I have some really nice ball pythons and 10 of my females are breedable this season. I have decided to try and build my own racks now. Some friends have shown me theirs and they are very nice, and will not cost me 100 dollars per bin. I can do it now for about 25.00 per bin. Hope this info helps. But before you get into balls and you want to breed out the double recessives you have to think long term. We went into this with a 5 year plan, and we are in year 3 and it is tough. These animals require weekly feedings and daily care. It can take a lot out of you when you get over 20 snakes. I also breed my own rats and that is more time consuming than the snakes. So be prepared for a long period of hard work before you see any reward of babies.

Good Luck,
Bill

Everyone here has great points and i am pretty sure everything is covered. I honestly hate a thread where someone asks how much this and that. If all you are looking at is price tags then you are in the very wrong business. Example last year I purchases an 07 pastle male beautiful animal and would not trade him for the world right but now this year I have seen to many adds to count in various places with a 07 pastel male for about 3/4 of what I paid for mine. But the cost of rats has gone up as well lucky for me I breed my own but then again the cost of rat food has gone up. We could all break it down to the penny including every tiny little detail to attempt to scare you away and next week it could be half that or double that. If you are going to do this do it for the love of animals not love of money.

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Originally Posted by andrewrks123

to start a breeding company?


how much did u guys/girls spend on your breeding rooms.

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As little as two breeders, to infinity. I think its a question of scale.

Start out as a hobby. Buy a couple rack systems about 400 each. And buy several 10 gallon tanks to breed mice/rats. Get at least 1 trio of rats per snake.
Buy several base morphs ranging in price from 100 to 500 bucks. Get the hatchlings its way cheaper. After a couple years when they grow up try your hand at breeding. If you are one of the few people that can actually get a snake to breed then grats. Now build an incubator. An old fridge works great.
Eventually you will build a name for yourself and people will trust you enough to buy from you. (Most Important Part)
When you have a good name and are making a little money use that money to buy higher end morphs. Once again buy the hatchlings.
It takes several years to get the ball rolling but when it does it rolls bigger and faster till you get run over.
Keep excellent records on cleaning time, snake weights, snake and rat food intake, cost of supplies. Eventually you will see some returns.

You should be able to get started for around 5k. Good luck

lol not countingthe animals I got I bet I spent i ( just building and getting tubs and such ) close to 2-3 grand. that lumber ( proper tools to build my racks ( second at least and will replace ht other once I get the tubs for the to move snakes from the last of the cages. and other odds. Now if i add the supplies ( such as bedding food and snakes) I got close to about 5+grand. and over half my animals are rescues that are of breeding size that I got for free ( before getting back into a healthy state) thatI can breed. :gj: but I am agoing to limit myself until they get done with the reptile bann crap so If it becomes an issue to sell snakes out of state I am not sitting on top of 40+ eggs and no real way to move them. ( which would be my luck if I started breeding today)


I can say to start a small scale reptile (ball python group it cost about 6-8 grand plus maintance for 2+ years and that with a couple hets, and a pair of dominate morphs. and some normal females.

over the next 2-3 years i hopnigot prove out and possible combine pied, albino, axanthics, as well as pinstripe and butter ball pythons. ANd if the bans take effect and really limit people reptile aquireing options I may be one of very few that breed n my area. ( whichwill make me getting a couple extra morphs a big deal (before the bans could take effect )

That all will depend on how the proposed ban will go. I will also need ot get my fedex reptile cert to ship done too. which will be another can of worms to get straight asi need to research into it ( in seeing if it got to be recert every so often ) and such.

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Originally Posted by pavlovk1025

Man thats a rough lie to tell your hubby. I used to tell that one to my wife until I learned what I learned. Now I just tell her, "Hey, we might always be in the red. But were gonna produce some cool loooking animals, I promise."

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To be honest I think he just humors me!!

As has been said, it depends on the scale of the operation you want to start with.

What you'll need first, MINIMUM.

1 Adult ball python rack. I recommend going with a 10 slot so you have room to expand.
1 hatchling ball python rack. 30 slot minimum.
The above must be wired for heat.

1 rat rack level. Get 2 if you can afford it. Get an automatic watering system with it. Yes, you heard me--you will be producing hatchlings, and most of them will be disinterested in frozen-thawed, so you will have to become a rodent breeder as well as a snake breeder, at least if you want to make money.

1 incubator large enough to hold at least 2 clutches. Be sure you have room to incubate eggs if ALL the females you purchase choose to lay them at the same time.

QUALITY thermostats for all of the above. I recommend a quad helix or herpstat--this can run both your racks and your incubator. If you can afford it, purchase a backup thermostat.

1 very good value-holding male morph. At this time, a lavender albino or a pied would be ideal. If your investment capital is lower, go with a male albino. You can pick up yearlings for a pretty good price. If you can't afford het females to go with the albino, though, and your budget is even lower, then go with a nice morph--a spider, a pinstripe, or a mojave.

At least 2 BREEDING-SIZED females, preferably proven, and DEFINITELY currently over 1500 grams--don't let anyone hoodwink you into thinking a 1200 gram animal is a breeder, or that you can 'feed her up' in time. If you can afford it, get HET females for your recessive males. If you got a co-dom male, you can just get normals. If your budget is higher, get co-dom females.

DO NOT BUY ANY HATCHLINGS. Period. No matter what kind of deal you see. If you have a little extra AFTER you get the above, then you can pick up a good hatchling MALE morph to raise up for the next year, but that's a bonus, and not necessary at all at this point.

Set some cash aside for the following:
Bedding for the rodents.
Feed for the rodents.
Frozen-Thawed rodents, if your adults are eating them--this will save you space and labor, for the same cost.
Cleaning supplies--you'll need soap, sponges and scrubbies, chlorhexedine, provent-a-mite, etc.
A space heater, because you never know.
A shop vac.
Garbage bags, lots of them.
Spray bottles
Thermometers, at least 5 of them. The indoor-outdoor variety are the most versatile. A temp-gun is a good idea.
A humidifier
A quality air filter

Set aside at least $180 in case all 3 of your snakes get sick and require veterinary care--preferably double that amount in case something more serious happens.

Purchase breeding rodents--healthy, clear-eyed, no runny noses, and minimal sneezing. How you set them up is up to you--read up on it, and maximize your production for your space. Remember you will need to feed all your hatchlings when they arrive.

So what's all that cost?

Somewhere around $2350 PLUS the cost of the snakes, PLUS monthly expenses. Monthly expenses will run somewhere around $600 per year, PLUS your utility bill--the heating costs will vary, so you'll have to estimate those seperately.

Count on needing $2950 on top of the cost of your snakes. The minimum amount for the snakes themselves would be around $800 for decent animals.

$3750 minimum to START a hobby breeding business.
You MIGHT MAKE NOTHING your first year. Yes, it's possible--neither of your females may choose to lay eggs for you. Have another $600 on hand to cover their expenses for another year, if this happens!
If one female lays for you, expect to make about $400, assuming you bought a good female and a good male.
If two lay for you, expect to make about $800. $600 of that will go to cover your operating expenses for the coming year, and that leaves you with $200 to purchase another female!

But you'll need to quarantine her, so you'll need to buy another rack. And you'll need another incubator, because your first one only holds 2 clutches. This requires more money to invest, of course. You're still in the red, and it's year 2.

Year 3, you get $900, and you can buy another female...

I think you see the point. If you have under $4000 to invest, you probably aren't going to get anywhere fast with this.

Now, lets assume you have $10,000 to invest. You purchase decent morphs, not a cheap co-dom and a couple of normals. Your other expenses are pretty similar, but in your first year, your hatchlings are selling for around $3600, assuming the females both lay. That leaves you $3000 to reinvest, because high-end morphs don't cost any more to care for than normals. You buy more morphs, and in your 2nd year, you are producing around $5000 over top of operating expenses. Wisely reinvesting this, you are able to make back your initial investment within 4 to 5 years. After that, you are making a profit.

How much money does it cost? $4000 for a hobby, and $10,000 for a business. Reasonably speaking.

Some people have already said something along these lines but please consider what your motives are. Breed reptiles only as a hobby first and foremost. The price of so many morphs has fallen so much due to the influx of breeders recently. You really cant even break even unless you breed your own food or have all snakes that will take F/T so you can buy in bulk. (never gonna happen). Build your own racks. Buy the cheapest wholesale supplies you can find. (with the exception of the thermostats, never skimp on quality there)

Choose your collection wisely. If you plan to break even & possibly make a profit within a few years you need to start with quite an investment of high end balls that are holding their value better than others. Normals are being pushed out of many breeding collections and being replaced with double, triple, & quad co-doms. Visual recessives and other snakes that were a rarity until now. These snakes are the only thing that will ever help you break even.

If you start cheap and breed normals, pastels, spiders etc.. You will end up with tons of tiny mouths to feed that you cant sell for the price you paid to feed the parents for 6 months. Incubators, egg boxes, multiple thermostats, hygrometers, bowls, racks, tubs, hides, rodents, electricity, record keeping etc etc..

As for reputation. Like was also said already. You do need to find ways to build your rep. A great way to start is by only buying your founding stock from other reputable private breeders who are already known in the community. From there you keep in touch with them. Join and contribute to forums like this one. Organizations like USARK etc.. Scammers do not put their name out there like that. Take advantage of things like feedback and the BOI. Communicate with potential buyers/sellers. Get fed ex certified to ship reptiles as well as through shipyourreptiles.com Learn how to properly package, insulate, heat, label and ship live reptiles. Also remember that some of the most well used classified sites for reptiles require registration and payment of fees to use their services to advertise your animals.

Or you could try desperately to convince the chain pet stores to use you as a breeder/supplier for their BP stock.

Its not as easy as it seems. Not trying to disuade you, just make sure you know what you are getting into before you start something like this. And never forget. You wont get rich. You probably wont even make back your investment. The only ones that make real money off this are the ones who have been around for years, have a well known name and have invested in hundreds of snakes.

My collection is only 15 at the moment. Ive already invested 10 grand only this year. I dont even know how much ive spent over the last 7 years taking care of what i already had. 95% of that time i didnt breed my own food. And i was hit with a $250.00 vet bill for just one of the snakes this year.

Dont do it unless you actually want to lose money. Its like horses. Everyone loves them. Those who own them know how crazy expensive they are to keep but its worth every penny for the hobby and the love of horses.

Look at the adds on kingsnake. You will see lots of people selling off entire collections right now. Funny thing is, all the snakes are only a year old. People bought all these babies last year. Now they are not even ready to be bred yet and these people are realizing all the cost and hassle that went into buying them and trying to raise them only to see how many balls dropped in price by hundreds of dollars.

Please excuse the rant but there are just too many people that were sucked into this great plan to make money and now the market is flooded with unwanted snakes. Do it as a hobby and only if you can honestly say you can afford to lose everything you put into them and can afford to keep them as pets for the next 20 to 40 years.

I have to disagree. The more you dissuade people from investing in ball pythons--whether as a hobby, as a business, or as a hobby-business--THE LOWER PRICES WILL DROP.

I've said it before, and I will say it again--they are not competitors, they are customers. Morphs aren't ending up in pet stores just yet (other than very rarely). Who do you think is buying them? Other breeders. Encourage people to become breeders, if you want a return on your investment. If you don't care, then by all means, tell them it's impossible for them to get anywhere with it.

If you're a purest who does it only out of love for the animals, that's great. That does not mean there is something wrong with those who want to make money. This business inherently weeds out people who don't have the animals' best interests in mind, because if you don't care for them properly, they won't produce. They are not horses, cats, or dogs. There are no mutt ball pythons looking for homes. Balls don't generally stay in reptile rescues for very long--they're small, easy to care for, and docile, and they're still in very high demand as pets.

I fail to see the market being flooded with unwanted snakes. I see people too impatient to wait for them to move at the current slower-than-usual rate, and I see some people bailing out because they didn't develop a business plan when they went IN, and the economic crash is forcing them to sell to pay their bills. The solution--prices come down. SO WHAT? The prices dropped. This is not a huge calamity. If you're operating on a margin so narrow that this drop is a disaster for you, then you did something wrong and should rethink your plans. It's not even 2 years' worth of price drop going on. Considering the severity of the economic depression, that's really NOT bad!

I produced 46 snakes this year. I have 23 left. 3 are holdbacks, and 6 are on hold, on payment plans pending purchase. So essentially, that's only 14 left. I sold 2/3 of my animals in the first two to three months. Unwanted snakes? Clearly not. My normals were among the first to go, by the way, and I have only one left now.

As I said, it looks like we've only lost one year off of the pricing to all of this.

IF you go into something like this--if it's something you TRULY WANT TO DO...then more power to you! Create a proper business plan, have realistic expectations, and go for it. The folks complaining will have to lower their prices a little to accomodate you, but they really should be nicer to you, because you're buying their snakes to expand.

You will not make back all your money in the first year. In no business on earth that I am aware of will you realistically expect to do THAT. Perhaps it was possible with ball pythons when the market peaked, but that's an artificial point, and things will never be that way again.

In 5 years, however, it's more than possible to start making a profit--check my post for the numbers. If you do even half that well, you'll be fine.
You think BHB was rich when he started? Of course not.
What surprises me is so many people saying that no one else can ever reach that level. There is no CAP on how far you can expand with ball pythons. He hasn't taken over some exclusive niche that's out of reach for everyone else unless they started at the same time he did. So long as they keep importing CH babies to feed the market demand, you KNOW that there is a market in the US. Will prices drop? Yes, they will, every single year, without fail, and they SHOULD. The rate of that drop depends to some degree on the level of interest from newcomers to the hobby. The more newcomers there are, the less it will drop.

Small collections are expensive--large collections are proportionally less expensive, but more time-consuming, to care for. And you will not have problems supporting your collection from the babies you sell, if you pay attention to the market prices, and the value of what you're breeding.

I absolutely do NOT understand the doom and gloom brigade that goes after anyone who talks about starting a breeding business. If the folks doing it are breeders, it's EXTREMELY counter-productive. If they have had these problems themselves, then they did not plan properly. If they're not breeders, they have no idea what they're talking about.

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Originally Posted by tattlife2001

Everyone here has great points and i am pretty sure everything is covered. I honestly hate a thread where someone asks how much this and that. If all you are looking at is price tags then you are in the very wrong business. Example last year I purchases an 07 pastle male beautiful animal and would not trade him for the world right but now this year I have seen to many adds to count in various places with a 07 pastel male for about 3/4 of what I paid for mine. But the cost of rats has gone up as well lucky for me I breed my own but then again the cost of rat food has gone up. We could all break it down to the penny including every tiny little detail to attempt to scare you away and next week it could be half that or double that. If you are going to do this do it for the love of animals not love of money.

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I don't think that is fair. knowing the average cost of doing business helps people figure out if they want to keep it a hobby or try and make a small business venture out of it. Both can be just as much fun one just means there is more planning and more tactical strategy involved than just willy nilly have fun with it. Nothing wrong with either one but there's also there is nothing wrong with being informed when it come to the business side of the reptile world.

I do it cause I love the animals..alway have.. but as a business I also can't be blind to marketing cost, advertising, housing, feeding, expo, supply's, disposable goods costs. My overhead can't exceed my income or capital investment ability. It doesn't mean your in it for the money it means your no longer approaching it like a hobby and treating it like a business.

Solid post Winged Wolf! :gj:

Hi,

I agree with wingedwolf....but I think the bottom line is this. I feel that most of us that get into the breeding of these snakes are compulsive people. We enjoy every aspect of it. From the purchasing to the buying to the expected outcome of a group of recessive eggs. When things settle down and you build a nice size collection you get to the point where you have no room to add and you now have to feed and clean plus rats on a daily basis. It truly becomes a very hard daily grind. I find to that it keeps me from leaving on family vacations because of the time needed to daily take care of my snakes and feel locked up in my home. I can see why people get out after time, but I don't think they looked beyond the first year or two. Also when I was buying snakes three years ago, some of the bigger breeders would tell me how they thought I had a good chance of surviving because of my mathodical planning and how much thought and effort I put into my planning. So I know people selling off and getting out has always been part of the business. The obvious price drops just helped more compulsive people to get into it and when the buying stopped they decided to bail out.

From what I can tell it will take me about 5 years to get a basic breeding group on a strong foundation. I could care less about the pricing because when i sell my snakes I will be happy to sell them for what the market will bare. I would love to make the big bucks, but we can all see now that the small time breeder will never get there. We are just too far behind the bigger breeders that have been in it for so many years. While we are trying to sell our babies the big established breeders are selling the same snakes as proven breeders for pennies while they are proving out all the double and tripple genetic morphs that are what people are looking to spend the big money.

Anyway, I am happy to be where I am today and I look forward to my and others future of being the small time breeder.

Regards,
Bill

Hey Mitch,

Are those your kids cut out of the pic. They look beautiful from what you can see. I have a 15 year old daughter that has been keeping my shot gun busy....Well anyway, you should cut yourself out and show off your beautiful children. You are a lucky man to be so blessed with such beautiful kids.

Bill

You know what....if you love it....do it! You really cannot put a price on what you love to do. Now with that being said....I wouldn't rely on this to pay my bills and I am not thinking down the line that when I do breed my snakes I am going to make a lot of money on them. I am pretty realistic in the fact that I am really a "nobody" in this industry and I am eventually going to breed for the fun and experience of it. If I sell a snake in the process...wooohooo. It will give me money to buy another....lol

(besides...my son is telling me that if I get rid of the the snakes "children" that would be sooooooooooo mean)....lol Ya gotta love little kids and how their brains work!!

I have actually kept track of my loss/profit for the last two years . . . both years I lost, yes, lost $2,000. That's not total amount I've spent, mind you, that's just what I've lost between buying new cages/equipment, new snakes, feeders (but now I'm breeding my own), etc. And like others have posted, that doesn't count gas and wear and tear on my vehicle. Nor does it count what little paid advertising I've done. Or the amount invested in my T-shirts I have for sale to help promote myself.

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Originally Posted by SnakeGirl3

I have actually kept track of my loss/profit for the last two years . . . both years I lost, yes, lost $2,000. That's not total amount I've spent, mind you, that's just what I've lost between buying new cages/equipment, new snakes, feeders (but now I'm breeding my own), etc. And like others have posted, that doesn't count gas and wear and tear on my vehicle. Nor does it count what little paid advertising I've done. Or the amount invested in my T-shirts I have for sale to help promote myself.

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Exactly.. I wasnt trying to disuade anyone. If my post was read completely that would be obvious.

If the poster is serious about breeding then they would welcome my comments on the reality and the very real possibility that it may not meet their expectations. Then if they are VERY serious & they are not one of these other people who jumped in with all the wrong info & ideas on breeding, they will also be stubborn & will make it work because they do love their animals & it is a hobby to them.

When it becomes a business as well, if they have done everything to ensure they will not be left homeless for the sake of trying to become rich as a snake breeder, then they will be well on their way wont they?

As for unwanted snakes.. There are rescues near me that are full of snakes. so much so that a snake I was trying to rehome for someone who refused to take care of it, was rejected at more than one rescue I called due to not having room for any more snakes at the moment. Most of the snakes in these rescues are BP's. It takes alot of will power to not rescue every one i see on petfinder near me.

You are very lucky if the rescues near you do not have this problem. Very lucky indeed.