gettin worried. help

my snake has an RI. she got her shot of baytril and now we r giving her baytril orally with a lil plunger thing. i know shes not happy with us grabbing her head to do it but what worried me is that it stays in her mouth and nose and blows bubbles and i think its just making it harder for her to breath. anyone ever use this stuff before? is this normal? any advice or personal experience would be very much appreciated

Don't be shy about really putting the syringe in her esophagus before pushing down the plunger. After squirting the meds into the esophagus, hold her so her head is up for 5 to 10 minutes so gravity will help pull the meds down to her stomach and not the other way.

thanks for the quick reply! i will definitely make sure the syringe is in a little better next time and i will hold her head up. but does this cherry baytril syrup cause as many problems as the other threads ive been reading? its only .03cc's every 12 hours.

i gave her her medicine early this morning and it worked a lot better. still need some practice tho. today she needs to eat so should i giver her the medicine first and feed her a lil while after or what? shes not picky at all so she should eat.

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

i gave her her medicine early this morning and it worked a lot better. still need some practice tho. today she needs to eat so should i giver her the medicine first and feed her a lil while after or what? shes not picky at all so she should eat.

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While giving meds it is recommended to not feed them. When my Kingsnake had an RI my vet told me to not feed him while he's on the medications. After the course of antibiotics are finished, you can feed your snake.

the antibiotics is a bottle of baytril syrup, kind of like cough syrup, and its going to take a while to finish. i am going to have to feed her. its already been 7 days and i usually feed every 5

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

Don't be shy about really putting the syringe in her esophagus before pushing down the plunger. After squirting the meds into the esophagus, hold her so her head is up for 5 to 10 minutes so gravity will help pull the meds down to her stomach and not the other way.

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Excellent response to your question. Yea, you need to be totally sure you are not shooting it into her glottis which is where she actually sucks in air. To avoid that you do need to be sure you are farther back. I usually gently hold the snakes head up, pry gently till I get the syringe in and then the smaller tip part of a small 1 ml-3ml syringe should disappear before you put in the medicine. This way you will also have a good eye view of the glottis and will know your not anywhere near it.

would u normally enter the syringe from the front of her mouth or from the side? im not exactly sure but is the glottis more towards the front? meds for animals are totally new to me so i appreciate everyones help

i went in from the front and all went well. the only bubbles were on the side of her mouth. im gonna call the vet tomoro cuz this bottle is big and will take months to finish as prescribed.

Here is a link to a pic for you to look at.
http://www.bugsinthenews.com/snake_anatomy.htm

The pic is about 3/4 of the way down the page and shows you the basics of what is fangs, glottis and gullet. I think the glottis looks like a little tiny toilet paper roll. Once you know what it is, it's really pretty unmissable.

It's totally fine to feed the snake if he will eat, the only caveat being that with daily dosing you will risk regurgitation of the meal. I would give the meds several hours before feeding, so he has time to get over the stress and will be more likely to take his meal. Be as gentle as possible when handling for medication the next day, but it's possible he will regurg. My feeling is it's better to give him the option of eating than not, as regurg is annoying but not really a huge deal. Illness raises metabolic rate, and calories and nutrition are good things for sick animals. Often sick reptiles won't eat, but as long as he is in good body condition I wouldn't stress too much about that.

If in doubt about anything, ask the vet that is treating him.

Glad to hear the dosing is going better. You'll be a pro by the time the treatment is done. :gj:

ok i gave the medicine and held her head and things went good. she went inside her cage and laid around. after about an hour i fed her and everything went fine. she never regurgitated and never has. even when i handle her the day after feeding. (not by choice, she crawls up my arm during changes.) now i am only worried about the amount of fluid in her mouth. is the baytril causing this or is the RI? i really hope she isnt getting worse. i bumped up the temps so i hope shes ok

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

ok i gave the medicine and held her head and things went good. she went inside her cage and laid around. after about an hour i fed her and everything went fine. she never regurgitated and never has. even when i handle her the day after feeding. (not by choice, she crawls up my arm during changes.) now i am only worried about the amount of fluid in her mouth. is the baytril causing this or is the RI? i really hope she isnt getting worse. i bumped up the temps so i hope shes ok

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Fluid in the mouth is not a good thing. You may need some stronger meds. If she's eating that's a good sign though, but the fluid is not good.

shes eating fine. tongue still flicking no mucus on tongue. still active and crawls around on me. it looks like it getting worse. im gonna call the vet tomoro and go down there

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

shes eating fine. tongue still flicking no mucus on tongue. still active and crawls around on me. it looks like it getting worse. im gonna call the vet tomoro and go down there

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It's always better to be safe than sorry. Call the Vet before you go and ask about Fortaz. If they don't know anything about it, tell them an experienced herper told you it's widely used with great success and see if they can get some.

i was reading about that stuff. but should i stick with baytril but just toss the syrup and go to shots or change meds completely?

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

i was reading about that stuff. but should i stick with baytril but just toss the syrup and go to shots or change meds completely?

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Shots are probably better. You need to finish using the Batril, but adding Fortaz to the mix isn't going to hurt anything in BG's opinion.

Like BG said before...a culture is the best thing to do, but it's usually not needed if you use Fortaz and Baytril. BG knows many breeders that use this mix.

i was thinking that the extra fluid in her mouth was caused by the baytril because she never had that until i started the treatment orally. first thing tomoro the vet is getting a phone call!!!

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

the antibiotics is a bottle of baytril syrup, kind of like cough syrup, and its going to take a while to finish. i am going to have to feed her. its already been 7 days and i usually feed every 5

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Snakes can go months without eating, so don't worry about it. I would not recommend feeding while giving antibiotics. Call your vet and see what he/she says, don't feed your snake just yet.

Im probably late on this and youve had all the responses you need, but I had a snake that had to take pills orally and to do it I crushed them up and mixed them with water. I filled up the syringe with the mixture and had to pry her mouth open, stick the syringe down her throat pretty far down, and inject slowly. Then you gotta let it drain down into their stomach. It's so stressful for the snake and the keeper but you gotta do what you gotta do.

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

Snakes can go months without eating, so don't worry about it. I would not recommend feeding while giving antibiotics. Call your vet and see what he/she says, don't feed your snake just yet.

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It's OK kid. It helps give them strength. Do you eat when you're taking antibiotics? Why should a snake be different.;)

she was hungry so i fed her. took two baby rats down like it was nothing. oh ya n now she just finished bein in blue so it will be added stress. but during blue and the meds she ate just fine and still wanted to coil around my hand and be held. a visit to the vet is definitely called for. i will keep yall updated. thanks for the help. maybe ill get some sleep now

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Shots are probably better. You need to finish using the Batril, but adding Fortaz to the mix isn't going to hurt anything in BG's opinion.

Like BG said before...a culture is the best thing to do, but it's usually not needed if you use Fortaz and Baytril. BG knows many breeders that use this mix.

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I've cultured bacteria from snakes that was resistant to both Fortaz (ceftazidime) and Baytril, probably from breeders shot-gun treating their snakes without doing culture & sensitivity testing. :(

mpkeelee, a couple things to talk to the vet about:
1. Is the mucus coming from the respiratory tract or the esophagus?
2. Was a culture & sensitivity done to determine the best antibiotics to use?

i dont know if he did a culture or sensitivity test cuz the vet took her out for about 10-15min and when he came she gad already gotten a shot of baytril. im goin back so ill ask him about the test and see what he says about the mucus.

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

I've cultured bacteria from snakes that was resistant to both Fortaz (ceftazidime) and Baytril, probably from breeders shot-gun treating their snakes without doing culture & sensitivity testing. :(

mpkeelee, a couple things to talk to the vet about:
1. Is the mucus coming from the respiratory tract or the esophagus?
2. Was a culture & sensitivity done to determine the best antibiotics to use?

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BG said a "culture" was the best thing to do, but it's usually not needed. Experience tells BG what works best. A lot of times a good Vet will give you meds to start with and send out a culture to be sure. This way you can get it started on something that will most likely work. Waiting around with an RI can be lethal.

So, I'm interested. I've always been told that with the slower metabolism of snakes that oral delivery of the antibiotic is less effective than Sub-Q delivery of the anti-biotics.

I think that Dr. Scott Stahl even covers this when he was a guest on Reptile Radio (he's considered THE leading herp vet in the country, if not the world).

CritterVet, since you are a veterinarian, you may also find this episode interesting. My vet was very interested in listening to it and learning about the more cutting edge medicine and treatment of RI's.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/reptile...ile-Veterinary

Probably one of the most informative episodes of Reptile Radio, IMHO.

Here is Dr. Stahl's website: http://www.seavs.com/

Yes, I hope to investigate the literature regarding oral delivery of antibiotics to snakes someday when I have the time. It's definitely safer to give Baytril by mouth, but whether or not it's as effective I don't know. I doubt anyone knows, even the venerable Dr. Stahl, as the research simply hasn't been done.

Hi Robin,

I did some searching and could not find any data about oral availability of Baytril in snakes. However, I did find that another antibiotic, azithromycin, has been shown to be absorbed through the GI tract in ball pythons and reach effective plasma levels. Also metronidazole, an antibiotic used in anaerobic infections, has been shown to be absorbed through the GI tract in yellow rat snakes. So it's certainly feasible that Baytril would also be absorbed through the GI tract, but no one has done the studies yet.

CritterVet

first off thanks to all of u who have been replying. i have been off for a while cuz my wife got my computer a virus from facebook. my snake is doing much better. found a new vet and she is great. her exam was awesome. i insisted on shots this time. my snake got a shot of amikacin and meloxicam. she had her 2nd shot the other day. from now on she will only be getting the antibiotic (not sure which is which). monday is the third shot and she has been doing much better. not many shots left and i hope this is it for RI's

Amikacin is the antibiotic, meloxicam is an anti-inflammatory drug. Glad to hear that she is improving. :gj: