Some Guy Killed My Snake

I'm pretty much at a loss for words right now. I had a 100% het butterscotch ghost adult breeder male ball python that I bought a couple years ago. About a year ago I let a guy take him with an agreement that he would give me a hatchling out of another clutch when they hatched in a couple months. A month later he e-mails me and says he's not breeding BPs anymore and I can come pick up my snake, but I couldn't get ahold of him after that to coordinate a pickup. He didn't respond to my e-mail or anything.

He like, dropped off the face of the planet. After months of calling and e-mailing with no answer to my calls or e-mails I finally got ahold of his wife tonight. And... apparently they brought in a new BP (despite saying they were getting out of snakes) and didn't QT it, it had a disease and my snake got whatever it had and died.

...She didn't even offer to make it right, was just like "Sorry! *click*". I'm kind of dumbstruck.

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Originally Posted by Styx

I'm pretty much at a loss for words right now. I had a 100% het butterscotch ghost adult breeder male ball python that I bought a couple years ago. About a year ago I let a guy take him with an agreement that he would give me a hatchling out of another clutch when they hatched in a couple months. A month later he e-mails me and says he's not breeding BPs anymore and I can come pick up my snake, but I couldn't get ahold of him after that to coordinate a pickup. He didn't respond to my e-mail or anything.

He like, dropped off the face of the planet. After months of calling and e-mailing with no answer to my calls or e-mails I finally got ahold of his wife tonight. And... apparently they brought in a new BP (despite saying they were getting out of snakes) and didn't QT it, it had a disease and my snake got whatever it had and died.

...She didn't even offer to make it right, was just like "Sorry! *click*". I'm kind of dumbstruck.

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Sounds mighty fishy to me.

Take it to the BOI.

that totally sucks man. Theres most likely some legal action you could take if you guys have an agreement. He could at least give you another ball bro

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Sounds mighty fishy to me.

Take it to the BOI.

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This.

He doesn't sell or breed anything anymore, so there's no rep to put in question even if I did take it to the BOI. Would you guys take it to the BOI anyway? Even if you knew it wouldn't do anything?

romankea, the alleged disease apparently killed the rest of their snakes also, so they don't even have anything to offer. Though if they did it would likely be disease ridden if heir story is true.

BOI for sure

Is it a guy you did a deal with or a gal? You switch back and forth from he to she? Or was it a couple?

Edit - went back and re-read your original post - it was his wife that delivered the news to you. Sorry that happened.:(

Just one of the many reasons that breeder loans arent all that they are cracked up to be.

What is the BOI? Sorry about your snake. I would be livid.

The HOLY GRAIL!!

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...splay.php?f=13

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

What is the BOI? Sorry about your snake. I would be livid.

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Hope you got the agreement in writing and signed by the guy.

If so, you can take legal action. If you don't have a written agreement, well you're kind of out of luck.

I did, but it was more for the trade than cash value and as I'm sure you know het ghosts have dropped to dirt cheap. So while I know how much I initially paid for the snake, I don't have the receipt to prove it and could only get what he'd be worth now. Which, last time I checked, was even less than the court fees.

sounds like you got scammed .

how do you even know the snake is dead?

I say carry this over to fauna :mad:.It would not shock me this clown is still working with reptiles and is running a scam on you.One more thing, the value of your snake would not be what babies are selling for now.It would be what an adult value would be.Why you ask? Its simple your snake would be an adult now not a baby ;).Who is this clown? Maybe someone could go over and verify things for you.

I agree that this is a possible scam and I think that you should put this story and his name on the BOI more to warn others than to recoup your loss.

I would keep calling, and ask for the value of the snake to be paid. Mail them a bill. <lol>

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Originally Posted by Styx

I did, but it was more for the trade than cash value and as I'm sure you know het ghosts have dropped to dirt cheap. So while I know how much I initially paid for the snake, I don't have the receipt to prove it and could only get what he'd be worth now. Which, last time I checked, was even less than the court fees.

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He would have to pay your court costs if you win! I would take him to court just for the point of it! He will have to take a day off work and go through the hassle. This way at least he loses something for it! He will also have to prove that the snake died and even then he is responsible because it was in his care so he has to replace or pay for it!

did he send you any photos of the dead snake?
vet reports? just to say it died without some kind of remorse is messed up.
save all emails about the deal those can be used as proof :D
either way he wouldnt have to pay you what you paid or what a het is worth now he would have to pay actual replacement costs.
i would ask for a replacement or actual $ amount for a het the same size.
oh yes and i wouldnt be hiding this persons identity

What did the contract say about the event of the death of your snake?

Why go through the hassle of a breeding loan for a het hypo male? I'm guessing that the only animal(s) he would be breeding him with are het hypo females, so if he had het hypo females that were breeding size, why wouldn't he fork out the very low price for a male hypo by himself, or at the very least a het male? If he could afford female hets 2-3 years ago, or adult hets recently, he can surely afford to get a male for them so he wouldn't have to split the clutches with someone, especially someone who only has a male het to bring to the table?

Did he send you pictures of the dead snake?

I don't think you can get anything from him if he doesn't give you your snake back, if he is still alive that is. It depends on your contract, but it sounds like you either got scammed or the guy just didn't really know what's going on and killed you snake, and doesn't really plan to do anything about it. Your best bet is to just explain the whole situation with the guy's, and his girl friend's) name and contact info so other people know to avoid them in the future.

I didn't think to include "in the event of death" unfortunately. It's just something that never crossed my mind, that he would actually kill the snake.

He didn't send photos, it's allegedly been dead for months now. The wife claimed they called me months ago and left a message but I never got such a message.

Got a name for this guy?

That is terrible. If I were you, not only would I take legal action I would (if he lived close enough) drive to his house and demand to see his current collection.

Take this to the BOI, right away. The faunaclassified boys don't mess around. They will help in any way they can (atleast in my opinion, and I like looking through the "Bad Guy" threads). Inform him that he wiill be reported there, to the authorities, and you'll be taking legal action.

If you do this, you have to make sure to follow through, cause he will more then likely call your bluff and you've got to be right there to bite him in the kiester if he does.

You can charge him up to 3500 in damages in a small claims court. (I think that amount varies from state to state... you'll have to look into it). Of those fees can be the cost of finding him, and the cost of your adult snake, including an average per month cost of housing such a snake.

You really can bring the hurt down on this guy, if you're willing to take the risk.

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Originally Posted by Styx

I didn't think to include "in the event of death" unfortunately. It's just something that never crossed my mind, that he would actually kill the snake.

He didn't send photos, it's allegedly been dead for months now. The wife claimed they called me months ago and left a message but I never got such a message.

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well its obvious he and his wife had you nor your snake in their best interest... so why not put it out there who they are.. where they are located and all other info you have about them? no point in blabbing on if your not going to take any further action IMO

That is horrible, as some one relatively new to the reptile scene I cant understand anyone not qt any animal. Its just not an acceptable answer especially if you are housing another persons animals.

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Originally Posted by stealthk7gsxr

no point in blabbing on if your not going to take any further action IMO

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I didn't say what I'm doing so don't assume what my actions will or will not be.

I don't make it a habit of claiming, "Oh yeah, court for sure!" if I'm not 100% sure that's what I'll be doing (and obviously I need to be at least 95% sure I'll win the case and it won't be a further waste of my money because I too would have to take off work and spend more money before I can even think about getting any back). And for the reason that I have held off on posting on the BOI, until I can find and scan my written contract I'm not going to make the post yet.

Surely they are just lying so they can keep the snake.

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Originally Posted by Styx

I didn't say what I'm doing so don't assume what my actions will or will not be.

I don't make it a habit of claiming, "Oh yeah, court for sure!" if I'm not 100% sure that's what I'll be doing (and obviously I need to be at least 95% sure I'll win the case and it won't be a further waste of my money because I too would have to take off work and spend more money before I can even think about getting any back). And for the reason that I have held off on posting on the BOI, until I can find and scan my written contract I'm not going to make the post yet.

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Ummm, ok but that doesnt explain why you wont say who it was. Some more detail im interested in knowing, and everyone else im sure.. Was this someone you actually knew or was it some you found online. You say you had a written contract but was it notarized? Also, you say you want to find and scan your contract but what does that have to do with the BOI & posting on it? If this guy refused to answer you for months & then had his wife contact you, they did it to get you off their case. Im sure they were tired of your persistance. Even if what they say is true (which I doubt) Had they been responsible & honest people, they would have comtacted you or answered your attempts right away. Not months later. To me this is a clear scam. Even if your snake DID die & they just dont want to replace it. In that case its pure neglegence. Either way.. Why would you want to protect these people by not saying who they are? Either here or on the BOI?

I see you are a BP.net veteran

Then im sure you know that members here will not keep posting their condolences, concerns & advice if you dont give them something to go on. None of us wants to be the victim of such a thing.

If this has gone on for "months" as you say, he probably had a hypo female to breed your snake to. Yes the hets have fallen in price but actual hypo/ghost are still worth a decent amount depending on the combo. Aside from letting us know who these people are so no one else here gets scammed, you should watch & search the kingsnake.com & fauna classifieds for ghost/hypo listings. I wouldnt be surprised if you see babies before long from someone with the same name or fits the description of these people.

can we get a name? THen we might now who we are dealing with and mabey he has scammed before

I wasn't sure on the rules of the forum for posting names like that, is the reason for no name. I didn't want to break them.

His name is Jamie Wilson, I've spoken to his wife on the phone a couple times, but I don't know her name.

Draigess, no, it wasn't notorized. And I want to scan it to post on the BOI so I can post all the available information I have. I've read through many topics on the BOI over the years and I know they like to have a lot of info on there. Just something I wrote up kind of fast. This was my first ever breeder loan/trade deal.

Hey Styx, any new info on this? That name isnt listed anywhere on the BOI as far as i can find. Which seems strange if he is in fact a reputable breeder. You may have gotten an alias or they never did breed like they claimed they did. Let us know if you get anywhere with this.

thats a beat down in my hood...lol jk

I'm trying to dig up some photos of the snake to also post in the topic I put up on the BOI, just in case it is all a lie and if anyone happens to see my snake down the line.

I seriously doubt he's a reputable anything, let alone a breeder. He's either a theif or he's an ignorant snake killer - nothing good that's for sure. After I suspected he had swindled me, I looked up his name on the BOI also and came up with nothing.

However, the phone number I have for him is listed to a Jamie Wilson in the local directories.

Luna13, come down at make my hood your hood? lol

I know this isnt the best example but I also know there are some breeders and hobbiests out there that would stop at nothing. Its like how many people will protect & defend their pets just as harshly as they would their own family or house. I know I would..

At least the number seems to match the name. Not a very smart crook if thats what he is but then again, not many smart crooks are there..

You can try a reverse lookup on the number. I know id be paying them a visit. In a case like this id be prepared to hire a small time PI in his area just to tell me if he does in fact own any snakes. I dont care that its just a snake. It was MY snake and not yours to do with what you pleased..

Thats how id feel in your shoes. Keep us updated. Try to get more info. The more people put up a fight when people do this to them, the less scammers we will have out there. Too many people just count their losses and say "oh well".. Which only fuels the fire.

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Originally Posted by luna13

thats a beat down in my hood...lol jk

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No JK here. A Beat down with a few people to get the point across like Hiroshima.... No offense to the Japanese! I LOVE THEM!

The take some collateral...

sorry to hear that. thats why most people advise against breeding loans.

the fact that you refer to him as 'some guy' makes it sound like ya barely know him, a bad idea from the get go.. i would have a hard time trusting anyone but life long friends/fam with that sort of deal. shove a sock in his tailpipe ;)

Just my opinion, but I think I would have asked to see his house and where the snake would have been housed.. That way you could make a house call... Also, I wouldnt put it past the feller to have sold your snake.

Big Gunns has got to be honest here. Obviously there can be some extenuating circumstances that BG doesn't know about BUT..... How hard did you try to get your snake when the guy told you to come get it after one month?

BG is also finding it hard to understand why you gave your snake to someone you barely know.

One last question. Why weren't you complaining on line a year ago that this guy disappeared with your snake?

BG has no idea who this guy is, but it seems to BG that there's a leeetle more to this story than you're saying.


Like BG said...there may be some reasons for all the time that passed, but BG is still slightly confused.....well...not really....he just thinks that there's a leeetle blame on both sides here.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Big Gunns has got to be honest here. Obviously there can be some extenuating circumstances that BG doesn't know about BUT..... How hard did you try to get your snake when the guy told you to come get it after one month?

BG is also finding it hard to understand why you gave your snake to someone you barely know.

One last question. Why weren't you complaining on line a year ago that this guy disappeared with your snake?

BG has no idea who this guy is, but it seems to BG that there's a leeetle more to this story than you're saying.


Like BG said...there may be some reasons for all the time that passed, but BG is still slightly confused.....well...not really....he just thinks that there's a leeetle blame on both sides here.

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BG is late coming to the party.

He is welcome nonetheless, it wasn't too exciting up until now.

Wilomn looks forward to BG doing a song and dance routine. He has heard that BG, big though he is, is quite light on his oversized bootstuffers and not unlike a Drunken Wildebeast with his fanicfied footwork.

BG, as always (he's fast becoming my hero as I have misplaced my favorite hairball, the one that talked with a Japanese accent) is correct that there is something not quite right, perhaps even a tad more than the leeetle he suspects, rightly so, of course, is wrong.

I personally don't care what you or Big Gunns thinks of me. Blame me, that's your choice. I know what happened, you weren't there, and that's that.

I don't feel the need to defend myself from pointing fingers either. I've been through enough already, thanks. The facts are what they are, and just because you two want to blame the victim for the crimial's actions isn't my problem.

TheCourtneys, yeah, I should have definately done that. At the time I didn't even thinks of it.

Draigess, that's a good idea with the PI.

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Originally Posted by cornball252

No JK here. A Beat down with a few people to get the point across like Hiroshima.... No offense to the Japanese! I LOVE THEM!

The take some collateral...

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i wanted to be politically correct lol but seriously..thats a major no no, and ill even bring a female along to handle the wife lol

OK - this is getting over the line, folks - no need to threaten bodily harm to anyone - not even in jest.

This thread is now closed.