Class pet help?

I work at a high school (as a librarian), and was talking to my boss yesterday about getting a "class snake" - and possibly turning that into a whole program on reptiles. She's checking with administration on the rules, but hopefully we can do this! :) I have a few questions, and was hoping you all could help...

1. What kind of snake would you recommend? Fyi, all boas & pythons are illegal within San Francisco city limits (where I work), although I may be able to get a permit for educational purposes. But I was thinking a corn snake, or something of similar size and temperament, would be the best for this purpose. Would LOVE to have a BP in the library, just have to find out the legality of that.

2. How should I house the snake? I use tubs with my collection, but don't think that would be viewer-friendly enough. It's pretty cool and wet here in the Pacific NW, though I should be able to maintain things in a glass tank with UTH... but I can't afford to purchase anything fancy (if I end up providing everything), so cheap is good. ;)

3. Has anyone here done something like this, and if so, could you offer any more tips? For example, what's the best way to make this an educational program? And should I have them assist with everything, including the feedings? TIA!

I think a corn snake or similar colubrid would be a good idea. They can be maintained easily in glass tanks without a lot of the heroics necessary to maintain the proper temps and security for a shy ball python.

Thanks! What other colubrids would you recommend? I've always loved king & milk snakes, but hear they can be nippy... and obviously I want something the kids can interact with safely & confidently.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I think a corn snake or similar colubrid would be a good idea. They can be maintained easily in glass tanks without a lot of the heroics necessary to maintain the proper temps and security for a shy ball python.

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x2

Oh, and should I get a baby or adult/sub to start with? Just thinking about how tiny my baby corn is, and wondering if they'd be too delicate - not to mention easily lost. :oops:

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Thanks! What other colubrids would you recommend? I've always loved king & milk snakes, but hear they can be nippy... and obviously I want something the kids can interact with safely & confidently.

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They can all be nippy as babies. But many settle down as adults. I would look for an adult snake that is used to being handled. I see many of them available at shows and if you look for one at a show, you can handle it yourself to get a feel for how docile it is and talk directly to its keeper. If there aren't any shows in the area within your time frame, I would contact trusted breeders and ask them if they have any tame adults available for sale. I'm sure some do!

There's actually a show in Petaluma (about 40 miles away) today, but I wasn't planning to go since I'm fairly broke... and also not having the go-ahead yet, I don't want to get stuck with an extra snake! I think the next local show after this isn't until April, so maybe I'll talk to East Bay Vivarium - they should have a few adults laying around.

Edit: Then again, there's no such thing as an "extra" snake... LOL. :D

Feeding may be an issue. I hear you have some folks up that way that don't really like the idea of mouses and ratses being food items, especially while still living. Definitely stay with frozen thawed.

You can make a really cool display out of a 20L or 29g tank that would be fine for most any milk, calking or corn.

I would stay away from babies. Too small to see and too hard for newbs to handle. If you decide on a CalKing let me know. I know a guy who's got some very nice black and white yearlings.

What about a hognose snake?

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Originally Posted by DarkComeSoon

What about a hognose snake?

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Rearfanged. Since she wants it in public, in a Sue prone city full of lawyers, I'd stay away from them. Even though the chances are about a million to one you'd ever have a problem.

They are fantastic little creatures though.

There's a Pyro guy up your way who also breeds mice. A Mountain King would be perfect. He's expensive but has quality. I don't know if he still does shows but I know he's still around. chris baubel or bauble or something like that. I don't think he has a site.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Rearfanged. Since she wants it in public, in a Sue prone city full of lawyers, I'd stay away from them. Even though the chances are about a million to one you'd ever have a problem.

They are fantastic little creatures though.

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I had thought about a hognose, so thanks for pointing out the possible issues... as much as I love this area, you're unfortunately right about the sue-happy and anti-live-feeder things. :cool:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Feeding may be an issue. I hear you have some folks up that way that don't really like the idea of mouses and ratses being food items, especially while still living. Definitely stay with frozen thawed.

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My corn snake eats f/t pinkies like they're candy, unlike my picky BPs... so hopefully that will be the case with any colubrid I get for the library.

I was just thinking... what about turning this into a breeding project? I have a baby male corn, so if I got an adult female, they could mate whenever he's ready. I was planning to breed him anyway, so this would kill two birds with one stone. ;)

Whoops - after posting the above, I noticed my signature has Scout listed as a girl! I'll go fix that now, LOL.

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

3. Has anyone here done something like this, and if so, could you offer any more tips? For example, what's the best way to make this an educational program? And should I have them assist with everything, including the feedings? TIA!

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I teach Biology and Chemistry at the high school level and congratulate you on introducing students to the world of reptiles. In this day and age, kids rarely get the opportunity to experience the world of herps. I teach at my former high school and grew up in the area prior to much of it being developed. As a kid I remember searching under logs and around ponds for a variety of amphibs and reptiles, which helped develop my enjoyment of the natural world.

Here are some ideas you can use! Seek out a biology teacher at your school and acquire the standards being taught for the subject (or a quick search on the internet will yield them). Genetics is one of the standards and a large focus in Biology. You can have a display of color morphs and have students research and create a project on the genetics behind them. A poster board display with pictures, punnett squares, etc. would make a wonderful and interesting project. Certainly more captivating than the usual Mendel pea plant examples used in the text... Acquire some books on the snake you plan on displaying and have them available for the students to read and enjoy.

Definitely recruit some students to help in the upkeep of your snakes. I wouldn't make feeding a public display however if you feed live. I've had many a teenage student in tears when witnessing a feeding. If you feed thawed, then you should be okay.

Thanks Markie! Very good suggestions! :gj:

To be perfectly honest, I have always been a complete moron at all science subjects... but with my passion for animals I do try, and hopefully one (or more) of the science teachers will be willing to assist.

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

I was just thinking... what about turning this into a breeding project? I have a baby male corn, so if I got an adult female, they could mate whenever he's ready. I was planning to breed him anyway, so this would kill two birds with one stone. ;)

Whoops - after posting the above, I noticed my signature has Scout listed as a girl! I'll go fix that now, LOL.

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Yes!!! If they're different color morphs, you can have students predict the outcomes of the crossing, and directly relate it to the Biology Standards.

I recommend a nice Milk-Snake, Arizona Mountain Kingsnake, or Albino Kingsnake. Any brightly colored corn snake would also do.

I think for the children a brightly colored snake would be the key to having them be less afraid. Especially some of the Albino Milk or Kingsnakes that have traces of pink and yellow. It's hard to be afraid of something that looks like candy!

One more question... if I do end up paying for everything myself, will that count as a tax write-off? Hate to ask, but it's not like the public school system pays well - so I have to think about that. :rolleyes::P I know teachers/librarians can write off around $250 for annual "supplies," but not sure snakes would be considered a school supply.

I agree with Judy.

The only problems I forsee with kings/corns is you won't see them much during school time hours. These guys both like to chill in their hides alllll day long and don't really show up until the evening.

I'd recommend garter snakes. Easy to maintain, comes in a ton of different colors/patterns etc, and they are by far the most active snake I've worked with. Even when they're 'hiding' they usually have their heads sticking out to watch you.

In my educational program experience, medium sized snakes are easier for kids to handle, so sub-adult/adult no matter which species you descide on would be beneficial.

Edit: I also wanted to note that in all my experience with this, that I've never met a kid that's afraid of snakes, it's always their parents.

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Originally Posted by Aeries

Edit: I also wanted to note that in all my experience with this, that I've never met a kid that's afraid of snakes, it's always their parents.

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LOL... that is so true! We had a reptile show at my old library for the kids, and most of the parents were sitting waaaaaay back - while the children couldn't get close enough. :)

Rat snakes make great pets. They are active and dont normally bite. And super easy to take care of.

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Originally Posted by Aeries

The only problems I forsee with kings/corns is you won't see them much during school time hours. These guys both like to chill in their hides alllll day long and don't really show up until the evening.

I'd recommend garter snakes. Easy to maintain, comes in a ton of different colors/patterns etc, and they are by far the most active snake I've worked with. Even when they're 'hiding' they usually have their heads sticking out to watch you.

In my educational program experience, medium sized snakes are easier for kids to handle, so sub-adult/adult no matter which species you descide on would be beneficial.

Edit: I also wanted to note that in all my experience with this, that I've never met a kid that's afraid of snakes, it's always their parents.

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I find garter snakes more challenging than corns or kings. Not to mention they're a little more intimidating and difficult to handle. Active is not a good thing for beginner handlers.
Almost all species will be more active during the night hours, including garters. Corns and kings are just as happy without a hide or even with a pretty open hide that the kids can see into.
I have met kids who are afraid of snakes, as well as parents. It's good to be as little intimidating as possible.

I work in a special needs classroom in an Elementary school and last year my husband and I got the class a corn snake (one of our burms was out of the questions!!:D:D:D). We not only use the snake for educational purposes (we use him to learn basic things like color, length, position (the snake is "under" his aspen, the snake is "in" his hide, etc...), texture (snake is soft, cage is hard), but as an incentive as well, the snake is usually hid most of the day but if the students have performed well thru the week we take it out and let them touch it.

I am fortunate enough to have some of my students during the summer and our burms have always been great learning tools-I have gotten children to sign or verbalize such things as "I want to hold snake" or "Snake is yellow". I have had a child tell me "Fiona loves me" (Fiona is one of my larger females)-this was an autistic child who up until this point was terrified of any animal and would sit with me and just pet her for over an hour. I think it is amazing to watch kids with reptiles.

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

One more question... if I do end up paying for everything myself, will that count as a tax write-off? Hate to ask, but it's not like the public school system pays well - so I have to think about that. :rolleyes::P I know teachers/librarians can write off around $250 for annual "supplies," but not sure snakes would be considered a school supply.

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If it's used to teach a lesson, it should be considered a classroom purchase. I just donated a gorgeous Pueblan milksnake to a teacher who will use him to help demonstrate mimicry (red next to black...). I don't see why the snake, the accessories, and the food wouldn't be considered as teaching supplies. If the district doesn't accept the receipt, then I'm sure you can write it off as education expenses. Good luck with this project!

I can ask my BF's mom, she's a special needs teacher in the San Joaquin county. One of the teachers she works with has a class snake, I think it's a corn snake. I'll ask her if she knows how the expenses work and what not. She's pretty close to that teacher, so if need be I can have her ask him.

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Originally Posted by TheresaBearden

I work in a special needs classroom in an Elementary school and last year my husband and I got the class a corn snake (one of our burms was out of the questions!!:D:D:D). We not only use the snake for educational purposes (we use him to learn basic things like color, length, position (the snake is "under" his aspen, the snake is "in" his hide, etc...), texture (snake is soft, cage is hard), but as an incentive as well, the snake is usually hid most of the day but if the students have performed well thru the week we take it out and let them touch it.

I am fortunate enough to have some of my students during the summer and our burms have always been great learning tools-I have gotten children to sign or verbalize such things as "I want to hold snake" or "Snake is yellow". I have had a child tell me "Fiona loves me" (Fiona is one of my larger females)-this was an autistic child who up until this point was terrified of any animal and would sit with me and just pet her for over an hour. I think it is amazing to watch kids with reptiles.

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I've noticed this as well. It's amazing, the connection made from non-verbal kid to animal.

Update: My boss gave me the go-ahead yesterday, and said we just need to get waivers signed... for what, I'm not sure. :confused: But yay! I may have found a snake, too - an adult female Amel corn snake, for only $25 on craigslist. I'm going to see the snake this weekend, and will let you know what happens. Thanks for all the great responses!

I can't wait to hear what happens, I have been talking to one of the biology teachers and the superintendent about getting a reptile for the classroom since there is a teacher with a hamster and two with fish. I would love to help them get started with a snake or lizard.

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Originally Posted by JLC

I think a corn snake or similar colubrid would be a good idea. They can be maintained easily in glass tanks without a lot of the heroics necessary to maintain the proper temps and security for a shy ball python.

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Agree.. The garter snake idea is not bad but keep in mind they are a musking snake. If it is being handled and decides its not happy I doubt the kids will like it much when they get to smell its stinky musk. Or when their fingers & hands smell funny after they have touched it.

That said. Yes any snake can "pee" on you to show its not happy but musking snakes are much stinkier then any others in this situation.

A corn would probably be best. Much more affordable and less likely to develop any health problems due to improper housing since they do not require the strict high heat & humidity of some other snakes.

I would also let ppl know that this is a school project. A lot of companies and ppl might be willing to discount or give you the items you need. You can also try ot give out advertising in the school newsletter in leiu of items needed.

I would also stress probably not letting the students give the snake the food. Watching is one thing but most of the bites on here are from feeding responses. It would be very sad to have your program shut down because of that.

I also work at a school as an aide to second and third grade. The kids are currently learning about bp's and eventually will get to meet my Elizabeth and Henry. They get their sheds when they happen and currently have them hanging up on the board. It is pretty cool. There are some that are a little scared but really it is the whole "snake misconception" thing. Typically my sons friends that come over are nervous at first...but in about 4 minutes they are asking to hold them. These are kids anywhere from 5 to 13...so I love we are hooking em early!!!:banana:

Get a Milksnake. There colors would be so intriguing to the students.

Daniel

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Originally Posted by Simpson Balls

Get a Milksnake. There colors would be so intriguing to the students.

Daniel

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I looked for a milksnake, but the pretty adult ones are too expensive - usually over $100. :( Also think it makes sense to get a female corn, since I can breed her with my male corn (when he's old enough).

I'm planning to go see that corn snake from CL tomorrow, and will let you all know what happens! :)

Btw, I wrote my own caresheet on Corn Snakes, to give the kids when we start. Could somebody here with corn knowledge take a look for me? I used the caresheet on here as a guide, but put things into my own words...

Good luck with that adult cornsnake! I did ask my BF's mom about her co worker, and got a little info. If you need anymore info, let me know! I can ask more.