Spider question???

Hello,

I am getting a spider! Therefore I have been reading up about them. I am worried about a spider with wobblers.
What should I look out for? Is it a small twitch? OR is it similar to a star gazing corn snake? Is it a constant thing? OR only when the python is feeding?

ANYONE??? please help :bow:

It can vary. Ive held one that i was considering buying until i saw how he acted. Some spiders will have no noticable wobble or spin. Others can have it bad. They all have this problem tho. Wether noticable or not. It theorized that it is some sort of genetic neuroligical problem. No one knows for sure tho.

Some will star gaze. Some will roll alot when constricting their food to the point that its hard for them to eat because they wont stop rolling. Some will just wobble a little when you handle them. Others (like the one i held) will constantly roll and wobble and you can barely keep ahold of them.

When looking for a spider look for one that is well started. Has had quite a few meals and sheds. And has no noticible rolls or wobble. It can crop up later in life which is why i say look for a well established one.

I have a Bee that moves and acts just like any other morph. If she had bad wobbles or spins i would not have purchased her.

Many times you won't notice it much until feeding time. A Spider with a slight wobble tends to shake alot and sometimes misses their prey. A case with a stronger wobble can be very easily noticed and can include some corkscrew action.

also any spider or spider morph can have wobbles. They can vary on the extreme of the wobbles but most of them will have it, most people try to look for ones that dont have it but its hard to tell unless you spend a good amount of time with the snake.

it is genetic and there isn't a way to breed it out. As i recall the original spider that NERD brought in had wobbles.

I've only fed mine once but so far, no sign of wobbling.

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Originally Posted by Kylie

Hello,

I am getting a spider! Therefore I have been reading up about them. I am worried about a spider with wobblers.
What should I look out for? Is it a small twitch? OR is it similar to a star gazing corn snake? Is it a constant thing? OR only when the python is feeding?

ANYONE??? please help :bow:

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When you look for a Spider, ask the breeder/seller if the Spider has a wobble, and also ask if the parents have the wobble. The wobble isn't a twitch, or a star gaze, it's more like the head moving up and down lightly, not heavily.

Most Spiders will have this wobble, and it varies. Every snake is different, and that means the wobble is also different in each individual snake. Some Spiders won't even show this wobble at all and don't have it, but still carry it in its genes which can be passed down to the offspring if bred. The wobble can be a heavy wobble, or a light wobble. Sometimes the wobble will show when the snake is stressed if the snake doesn't show it any other time, but even a Spider with a bad wobble can show it when stressed. Sometimes they can show it during feeding, handling, or even do it when they are roaming around in the enclosure.

Spiders can also do a corkscrew motion with their body. Again, sometimes it can be bad and sometimes the snake will barely even do it. And like I said before, the snake can show this at any time whether it shows it a lot or shows it very little or even not at all.

Really, there isn't anything bad about a Spider with a wobble or corkscrew, it's just in the genes of the Spider morph, but if it really bothers you, just ask questions. Ask the breeder/seller questions like, "Does this Spider have a wobble?" or "Did the parents ever have a wobble?" and if the snake does have the wobble or corkscrew, ask "How bad does the snake show the wobble or corkscrew?" or "How often or when does the snake show the wobble or corkscrew?". Don't be afraid to ask questions if the wobble and corkscrew bothers you. Look up YouTube videos on Spiders with wobbles and corkscrews and see what it looks like. It really isn't that bad, and I wouldn't mind owning a Spider with a wobble or corkscrew, they are still normal.

I mean ya a really bad spinning/wobbling spider no one will want but i think the wobbling of some degree gives them personality.

My spider has wobbles when he gets excited or when he eats.
He has given me the puppy dog look which i laughed really hard because he was sitting on my bed looking at me and his head was cocked to the side slightly. He is my first BP and i wouldent trade him for anything.

I dont get why some people frown upon spiders because their one genetic trait. They make beautiful combo's and are great to have. I think i could deal with the spider wobble more than i could breeding albino's, caramel albinos then having to deal with all the kinking/deformed babies coming out and having to kill the whole clutch because they cant even function which has been done by the high end breeders. I love my spider :)

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Originally Posted by Pulcher

I mean ya a really bad spinning/wobbling spider no one will want but i think the wobbling of some degree gives them personality.

My spider has wobbles when he gets excited or when he eats.
He has given me the puppy dog look which i laughed really hard because he was sitting on my bed looking at me and his head was cocked to the side slightly. He is my first BP and i wouldent trade him for anything.

I dont get why some people frown upon spiders because their one genetic trait. They make beautiful combo's and are great to have. I think i could deal with the spider wobble more than i could breeding albino's, caramel albinos then having to deal with all the kinking/deformed babies coming out and having to kill the whole clutch because they cant even function which has been done by the high end breeders. I love my spider :)

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I like spiders and wouldnt turn one down with a slight case of wobbles or spins but wow the one i held that i was going to buy.. NO one would have bought it if they held it first. He was all over the place. He was rolling so bad that he refused to stay right side up. It was hard to hold on to him. At times he would just flip so fast. It wasnt a fear or nervous response either. He was calm. Just had the worst case of spider spins id ever seen.

Im sure most are not that bad. Its definately best to question the breeder about its feeding habits and background. Its even better if you can handle the spider first and be allowed to watch it feed.

I just noticed that my spider wobbles a little. I was feeding her and she was swaying side to side. she was only moving about a quarter inch each way so they arent really bad. Once she was done and was taking a drink she wasnt wobbling at all.

In my opinion, it's completely unethical to breed a snake -- or any animal -- with a neurological defect. No one has bothered to do the real scientific research to find out what causes "wobbling" in spider BPs, but considering it's so tightly correlated to the spider phenotype, I would bet the ranch that it's genetic. If snakes had limbs, the effects of this deficit would be more dramatic and quite dreadful to witness. Wobbler kittens, dogs, and calves can barely take a few steps without falling.

I personally don't believe all spiders are wobblers. I have seen severe cases in which the poor snake would hit his head all the time just trying to get around, and I have seen spiders and spider morphs without any problems at all. I think if people stop breeding wobbler spiders we can eventually select-out this problem. If that's not the case, then perhaps the spider morph doesn't have a place in ethical breeding programs. :2cent:

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

I think if people stop breeding wobbler spiders we can eventually select-out this problem.

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Well, that would be pretty difficult. Even if a Spider doesn't show any wobble at all no matter what (even under a great amount of stress), the wobble can still be there in the genes so if you bred that Spider to something else the offspring could get the wobble.

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

I personally don't believe all spiders are wobblers. I have seen severe cases in which the poor snake would hit his head all the time just trying to get around, and I have seen spiders and spider morphs without any problems at all. I think if people stop breeding wobbler spiders we can eventually select-out this problem. If that's not the case, then perhaps the spider morph doesn't have a place in ethical breeding programs. :2cent:

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Spiders wobble. I don't believe you can "select out" this problem as they all have some level of it. Most of the time when people say "mine doesn't wobble" or "not my Spider" it's because they don't notice the more subtle signs or they don't want to admit that the pricey little snake that they purchased isn't perfect.
With mine I only see it a little at feeding time so I don't see it lowering their quality of life.

Thank you all for your views... I greatly appreciate it... I trust the breeder and her stock completely, I just wanted to be prepared and all my research wasn't giving me enough information... Therefore, I wanted to get some input from those that have experience... I just started my collection and a Spider is a great addition to my collection...
Thank you again to all...

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

In my opinion, it's completely unethical to breed a snake -- or any animal -- with a neurological defect. No one has bothered to do the real scientific research to find out what causes "wobbling" in spider BPs, but considering it's so tightly correlated to the spider phenotype, I would bet the ranch that it's genetic. If snakes had limbs, the effects of this deficit would be more dramatic and quite dreadful to witness. Wobbler kittens, dogs, and calves can barely take a few steps without falling.

I personally don't believe all spiders are wobblers. I have seen severe cases in which the poor snake would hit his head all the time just trying to get around, and I have seen spiders and spider morphs without any problems at all. I think if people stop breeding wobbler spiders we can eventually select-out this problem. If that's not the case, then perhaps the spider morph doesn't have a place in ethical breeding programs. :2cent:

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Who's to say it's neurological? My personal belief is that it's more of an equilibrium issue than a neurological one.

And I personally do believe all spiders carry this trait and that it's genetically linked to the spider gene, in varying degrees of severity. People have been talking about breeding only non-wobblers (but there's no such thing) since spiders first came on the scene, and no one has been able to produce a line of non-wobblers.

My three (soon to be four) spiders all have a minor wobble, generally displayed when they are excited. It has not impeded their ability to VERY effectively hunt, eat, poop, shed, breed etc, therefore, I don't view it as a defect, but rather a behavior of the spider gene. I don't believe that their mental capacity is affected in any way. I have no ethical delimma breeding these beautiful animals and sharing what I know about them and the wobble trait with my customers.

An "equilibrium issue" is neurological. There are a couple areas in the brain responsible for balance, and the brain and spinal cord work together for maintaining posture and righting reflexes. "Wobblers" have been known in other species for a long time, and in some cases it is due to cerebellar hypoplasia -- underdevelopment of the cerebellum, which is part of the brain. To my knowledge, no one has examined wobbler BPs to determine the exact mechanism, but it's definitely a neurological defect.

It is my firm belief that we should breed for health over beauty or else we will end up with genetic disasters like has happened in dog & cat breeding.

My male spider has a very bad corkscrew. He does it mostly when he's hungry, but you should see him at bath time.:) I have to give him a bath in a smaller container cuz he is way bad in the normal bath. He eats great and never turns down a meal. But all in all he is a great bp and that little corkscrew gives him his personality and he always makes me laugh.

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Originally Posted by waltah!

Spiders wobble. I don't believe you can "select out" this problem as they all have some level of it. Most of the time when people say "mine doesn't wobble" or "not my Spider" it's because they don't notice the more subtle signs or they don't want to admit that the pricey little snake that they purchased isn't perfect.
With mine I only see it a little at feeding time so I don't see it lowering their quality of life.

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I can honestly say the spider at my house (my girlfriends) doesn't wobble at all. im not in denial about anything and i don't think it makes her better than any other spider. but feeding time or anything, she doesn't do it at all. do i expect some of her offspring to do it, of corse. even if she did wooble would i care? not at all. but when we first got her, i was looking very closely for signs, still to this day i see nothing.

I have a jag carpet which is more pricey than the spider that does have slight woobles, just kind does it when she cruising around, nothing seems to trigger it. shes just that way.

I've never herd of a wooble affecting the snakes til the point they can't eat. so why does this question get brought up all the time, like its a bad thing? it just makes them different. whats a morph anyway, something different.

If in fact the wobble or spin is a genetic defect then in theory all of the Spiders ever produced should have it since the original Spider that Kevin brought in from Africa was the only one ever, to my knowledge, and he spins and wobbles.

Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong with them, it's just their characteristic. Some do it at feeding time but most do it in the middle of the night. Go check on them in the middle of the night and you will see them do some crazy stuff.

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Originally Posted by rjs73

Go check on them in the middle of the night and you will see them do some crazy stuff.

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That's when my bee displays it the most. Once the main lights are off and just my reading lamp is on I can see her wobbling. She does it @ feeding as well but not as severe. But in handling and during daytime she doesn't show any signs.

I never saw my first spider wobble at all. I read about wobble but I didn't see it first hand so I wasn't really sure what everyone was talking about. Then I got a chance to see some of his offspring with the classic spider wobble & corkscrew.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I've never herd of a wooble affecting the snakes til the point they can't eat. so why does this question get brought up all the time, like its a bad thing? it just makes them different. whats a morph anyway, something different.

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To me, it's a bad thing because the animal isn't able to ambulate normally. I really think if snakes had legs, wobbling and corkscrewing would not be seen as cute at all. I don't think it's cute. I think it's sad when an animal wants to move forward and can't.

For the same reason I wouldn't breed brachycephalic dogs (bulldogs for example), I won't breed spiders that wobble. Spiders are definitely a beautiful morph, but for me the cost of that beauty is too high.