Where do Snowballs stand?

I see a lot of double het for albino and VPI axanthics for sale (aka double het for Snow), but I hardly ever see Snow babies themselves for sale, both online and at shows. Also I rarely hear about breeding projects involving Snows. What's going on? Are they falling out of fashion? Seem like powerful breeders IMO, being double homozygous for albino and axanthic. I'd have thought they'd be in higher demand.

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

I see a lot of double het for albino and VPI axanthics for sale (aka double het for Snow), but I hardly ever see Snow babies themselves for sale, both online and at shows. Also I rarely hear about breeding projects involving Snows. What's going on? Are they falling out of fashion? Seem like powerful breeders IMO, being double homozygous for albino and axanthic. I'd have thought they'd be in higher demand.

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if they were falling out then you wouldnt see the double hets for sale.
i know heather is working on snows and i think spider snows as well.

My guess is it's because breeding DH snow x DH snow, you only have a 1 in 16 chance per egg of producing a snow.

I don't think I'd ever bother starting a snow project nowadays because they don't impress me all that much. With all the white snakes popping up nowadays (out of breedings that have a 1 in 4 or greater chance per egg of hitting the white snake, depending on the breeding), I don't feel the need to expend all that breeding effort to get an off-white, faintly-patterned snake with red eyes when I can breed two snakes together and get pretty, pure-white, blue-eyed snakes in one generation.

I'm sure those who really really dig that off-white, barely-patterned red-eyed snake would feel differently ... But then once they get that baby, after possibly several clutches worth of tries, I'll betcha they're keeping it. :P

I guess I thought there were more snows out there, thus all the double hets for sale. If you have two snows, breeding them results in an all snow clutch. That's why I thought it strange that there are lots of double hets but very few snows for sale. Perhaps there are just a lot of "single" snows in collections, not pairs.

I think snowballs have a certain elegance to them that the leucistics lack. I like both types of white snakes personally.

i want to know if you add hypo if it will look anything like the moon glow boas

They fell out of fashion the day the first Leucistic ball python was produced. I'm not sure they were really all that high on anyone's list to begin with, they look too much like a faded albino then what you would expect a snow ball to look like. They're really more of an interesting experiment rather then a 'must have' morph. I plan on creating some one day using red axanthics, but they really don't look good enough to be that high on my project list.

I love mine. It's funny people say they have fallen out of fashion but it is still a breeding power house. I look at it like this, I can breed him to anything and have the offspring able to produce albinos and axanthics of that morph down the road. Secondly once you hit the snow the project becomes much easier to work. It took me 12 eggs to hit on mine and I also got a albino and an axanthic out of it that are ph for snow.

Yeah, the genetics they come with are why I expected to see more for sale. Time will tell I guess.

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

Yeah, the genetics they come with are why I expected to see more for sale. Time will tell I guess.

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Ghost and Axanthics have been around for roughly the same amount of time but you see extremely few DH for True Ghost for sale.

Same thing with DH for Albino Piebald, there are a few out there but I think there are more Snows than their are Albino Piebalds.

I don't think people appreciate Recessives morphs now that we have tons of Co-Dom/Dominate morphs.

I love white snakes, and Snows are no exception. If they're "out of style," then whatever; I'm still going to produce a few different types of Snows.

I think the lack of Snows available is similar to what AaronP said, but in more general terms. Most (if not all) double recessives are still rare to see for sale.

What are the different types of snows? From different axanthic lines?

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

What are the different types of snows? From different axanthic lines?

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For every line of axanthic there is a Snow, not including the Lavender Snow (axanthic lavender albino)

I think that Snows are such a power house for breeding that most are held back or sold without advertising.
Trey

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Originally Posted by AaronP

For every line of axanthic there is a Snow, not including the Lavender Snow (axanthic lavender albino)

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Actually, there is a Lavender Snow. :D There haven't been too many pictures of it released just yet, though.

When I say "types" of snow, I'm not referring to the different Axanthic lines. I'm mostly referring to the type of Albino used (except in the case of the Red Axanthic Snow). For example, the types I'm planning on doing right now are VPI Snow (VPI Axanthic x Albino) and Red Axanthic Snow (Red Axanthic x Albino). Maybe in the future, I'd like to try a Lavender Snow (VPI Axanthic x Lavender Albino) and a Caramel Snow (VPI Axanthic x Caramel Albino).

Snows are my favorite morph. More than Lucys by far.

You can have some real nice snows if you choose the right stock. Some look better than others.

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Originally Posted by mooingtricycle

Snows are my favorite morph. More than Lucys by far.

You can have some real nice snows if you choose the right stock. Some look better than others.

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Have you seen many adults? I love them as hatchlings but the adults don't do much for me.

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Originally Posted by pfan151

Have you seen many adults? I love them as hatchlings but the adults don't do much for me.

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yes. i have.

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Originally Posted by pfan151

Have you seen many adults? I love them as hatchlings but the adults don't do much for me.

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Brian Sharp's turn WHITE as they get older. I love his Snows.

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Originally Posted by Eventide

Actually, there is a Lavender Snow. :D There haven't been too many pictures of it released just yet, though.

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I know there is one, I'm saying it isn't technically a "Snow", it's a whole other morph.

I've only gotten to know the VPI snows, hatchlings & adults. I think the subtle pattern looks cool on the hatchlings, but you can barely see it on the adults. The adults are great eaters -- I always appreciate that!

I just googled lavender snow...wow! I want to make those.

A lot of critics out there...most who don't like them never held one in person...ten years ago no one wanted an Axanthic because it was just a "dirty" normal...then came the Co-Dom Axanthic combos...:D

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...12-2007005.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...2009_002-1.jpg

For me, snows stand on the expensive side. I'm not working with any axanthic ball pythons right now, but can see how a snow would boost along other's projects.
I did purchase a snow boa(BCI) this year because of his genetic "power".

I think they are definitely still in style and once any one has a snow in their collection they are that much ahead because making albinos and axanthics would be simple. Their isn't many snows in the world today simply because they are a double recessive mutation. Also, many breeders don't want to breed snow to snow because of the higher possibility of a messed up snake. Most will breed a snow to double het or something similar. I wouldn't hesitate to make snows or any other double recessive morph!

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Originally Posted by Bradford Cole

A lot of critics out there...most who don't like them never held one in person...ten years ago no one wanted an Axanthic because it was just a "dirty" normal...then came the Co-Dom Axanthic combos...:D

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Hee hee, I keep drooling at your Snows. :D Gonna get some Axanthics from you one of these days.... :D

IMO you do not see them as often for two reason. Each egg from a dh to a dh has only a 1 in 16 chance of being a snow, and it is much easier to produce lucys. Lucys also look better, IMO.

Is there anything you can combine a snow with to make it "better".

All the other double recessives, which are just as hard to produce, also combine with dom/co-doms as well to make even more interesting looking snakes.

Snows seem like a "dead end", at least to me. There may be something out there I don't know about, or some project that someone is working on that could end up looking really cool, but for now there just isn't anything that exciting about them.

Nice snow. It looks just like mine does (no shocker)! :) Is yours also a VPI snow?