Gift Animals and Paperwork

Lets say someone gives you an animal, and its a Heterozygous animal.

This is a gift.

No recompensation required.

Would you expect/demand paperwork???

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.:P

And if you would like to give me anything without paperwork I would be more then happy to take.:D

expect?

no.

demand?

no.

Ask for?

yup, no harm in asking.

I think I would definitely see if I could get it. I really don't think people would get upset if you just politely ask.

I don't think I'd expect it, but I would ask if it was available.

All things considered, without paperwork regardless of the source, for my own intents and purposes I'd consider it a possible het until I proved it out.

Hmmmm.. Well it's two fold..I think if your comfortable with the breeder and trust them then its not that big of a deal, your not paying for it so it's hard to be picky with a gift. However if your ordering from an unfamiliar breeder and they throw in random hets for you..then yea it's nice to get papers with them..

I'd say no as long as it's a breeder that I trust. I personally would not sell gifted animals especially if the breeder is a friend. If I raise em up and prove them out then I don't see a problem with not providing paperwork.
Example: If say Heather Wong or Adam Wysocki sent me hets without paperwork I would have no issues as I trust them and I know they could provide genetic info if needed later.
Example 2: If some random guy on KS sends me hets I would maybe try to prove them out but would not sell as hets.
Paperwork is only as legitimate as the breeder. Anyone can make up paperwork for their animals with pics and such.

I was just given a free het from my friend, and the thought of paperwork never even crossed my mind, if she says its a het clown I believe her 100% without a doubt, and also I think that is how it should be in all cases were a free het if offered to you for free.

I think demanding paperwork for an animal being given to you would be rude, especially if the person giving you the animal knows you (and you know him/her/them) and is giving it to you in trust and knowing that you would take great care of it.

As for expecting paperwork, I really don't think you would need to expect paperwork in the situation that an animal (say a het clown) was given to you by someone who not only has a great reputation but is someone you know and trust. If it was a breeder I never heard of I would be very suspicious.

Now if it was a breeder offering a het to you when you were purchasing another snake from them. For example, lets say you were buying a male pied and they offered a free female Het pied. I might ask for paperwork just for the sake of having it, but I wouldn't be so concerned about that, I think I would be more focused on if the free het is related to the pied, if then I wouldn't be interested in it but would thank them for the kind offer.

As for asking, there is no harm in asking. There are a number of different reasons why the person may want paperwork on the animal, for me I just like having it for the sake of having it. But as I said before if it was given to me from a very trust worthy friend then for me paperwork wouldn't be necessary.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Lets say someone gives you an animal, and its a Heterozygous animal.

This is a gift.

No recompensation required.

Would you expect/demand paperwork???

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No I wouldn't. I wouldn't expect the giver to stand behind a freebie by guaranteeing it. The perceived credibility of the giver is up to the receiver of the gift. A het will eventually prove itself. Beggars can't be choosers.

I wouldn't expect paperwork even if it was something I paid for. To be honest I have no idea what the point of paperwork is. Has anyone ever got their money back from a het that didn't prove? I think that if an honest breeder screws up some how and a het does not prove out he will refund your money whether you have paperwork or not. If the breeder is dishonest you are not getting your money back either way.

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Originally Posted by xscorpio

All things considered, without paperwork regardless of the source, for my own intents and purposes I'd consider it a possible het until I proved it out.

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That's probably a good idea either way. I personally would never sell a het that I bought from someone else regardless of who they are until I personally proved that snake out.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Lets say someone gives you an animal, and its a Heterozygous animal.

This is a gift.

No recompensation required.

Would you expect/demand paperwork???

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.....so what did you get without paperwork ?

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Originally Posted by twh

.....so what did you get without paperwork ?

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LOL..

I didn't.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Lets say someone gives you an animal, and its a Heterozygous animal.

This is a gift.

No recompensation required.

Would you expect/demand paperwork???

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I promise if you send me a free het I will not ask for paperwork :rofl:

Now more seriously, no I would not, if someone gives me an het I'll take their word for it. And even if there is a mistake and doesn't prove being since it was a GIFT to start with how could I say something.

Even when I buy hets which I do not do very often I buy them from trusted breeder and those days many breeders no longer send paperwork.

The paperwork is only as good as the breeder’s reputation is.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

expect?

no.

demand?

no.

Ask for?

yup, no harm in asking.

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I agree with this, there is no harm in asking. But really, paperwork has such a limited value. Anybody can make up stuff on their computer and print it out as 'paperwork' I've got friends that have paper work guaranteeing their het pied females where none of them proved out. I've got paperwork myself from people who went out of business and disappeared long before I was even able to prove out the hets I bought from them. If the hets hadn't proven out what recourse would I have had? None...

The thing is, anyone can knock up some paperwork on a computer and tell you a normal is het albino and pied or whatever. Best thing to do, is go to a recommended breeder if there is any doubt. Although a free BP? I would take it even if it were a normal lol

I honestly think "paperwork" on hets are useless. I think I have paperwork on one het I have and I didn't ask for it. All my hets were bought from big names but honestly it doesnt mean anything, with all the sperm retention going on everyone is taking a chance unless you set aside specific animals for recessive breedings.

Well... it's a gift....which in theory means freely given which would lead one to believe that should the giftee later sell the snake, there would be no problem with that since they owned it, but, since it was a gift......

I don't know. Depends on the circumstances.

If you were giving me something that I wasn't going to keep, that I would be selling, ...well, no, personally I'd just rely on my word being good enough because I'd believe your word was good enough....then again.....no, it all depends on why the gift was given.

This is a tough one that I cannot see a blanket answer too.

It depends on what will be done with the gift, what might be done with the gift and what is thought should be done with the gift.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

expect?

no.

demand?

no.

Ask for?

yup, no harm in asking.

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This is pretty much how i feel about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

expect?

no.

demand?

no.

Ask for?

yup, no harm in asking.

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Actually, I can see quite a bit of harm from this.

On the one hand, you're saying you're going to sell the gift and need proof of its genetics.

On the other hand, you're saying you don't trust the person who gave it to you.

A true gift would come with paper work so that the receiver would be free to do as they please with the gift.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Lets say someone gives you an animal, and its a Heterozygous animal.

This is a gift.

No recompensation required.

Would you expect/demand paperwork???

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If its coming from you NO.If it were from someone new to the scene HECK YEA.

To be honest, If I know someone well enough to give them a free snake I think I would be a bit offended if they asked me for paperwork to prove it is what I say it is. I mean if the snake is free, what motivation would anyone have to give away a fake het?

i wouldent ask for anything............if someone was kind enought to give me a snake ......
Hint Hint..............

Hmmm. Well, I know that if I gave someone a gift het and they asked for paperwork, I'd be a little disappointed. I realize not everyone is trustworthy, but paperwork--as many here have mentioned--is only as honest as the person who creates it. Yes, it's proof that the seller/giver guaranteed a het, but it will take several years (maturing time and two or three clutches) before the receiver can say within a reasonable doubt that the het isn't really a het. How many people would complain to the original seller/giver five years down the road that it isn't a het? How many sellers/givers would refund or replace the animal after that long a time?

Eh, I'd just say graciously accept the gift and treat it as a possible het until it's proven (or not, as the case may be). Gift horse in the mouth and all....

The first thing I think of is motivation...

...what would be the motivation to give someone a het, and present it as het, if it weren't het; meaning, I could see profit motive being a reason to pass off a normal for a het, because there are elements out there that try that stuff.

But, if I had no motive to deceive, and I was giving someone a het as "a gift", I would have no reason to lie about it.

Make sense?

BrandonsBalls

I say no and yes like othe say paper work now a days is not worth crap since one the person /animal in question would depend onthe % of said het.. But the paperwork is worthless cause they can claim it a forged by you, the can close up shop among other things. I rememberreadign of het that didn't prove out until the 3+ clutch . Heck some of the rescues I got might be het but I will never know since i never really plan on breeding them unless it to a visible morph like ablino, spider, pinstripe, or butter ..

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Originally Posted by pfan151

To be honest, If I know someone well enough to give them a free snake I think I would be a bit offended if they asked me for paperwork to prove it is what I say it is. I mean if the snake is free, what motivation would anyone have to give away a fake het?

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Wurd!!