Treatment Duration!

Hi Guys,
First off thanks for all the advice and info from everyone. My vet is really a great guy willing to work with me listens to me, and this is why I use him. We both found 2 different methods for BP R/I treatment one being everyday for 14 days and the other being every other day for 28 days. What do you guys do? I was following the everyother day regime, but I just want to makesure that that is effective.
Thanks,
Mike Kelly

Hi,

Couple of questions.

Did he do a culture before beginning treatment?

What did he prescribe?


dr del

My vet did a culture and prescribed every other day for 14 shots.....she is better but I have one shot left and I can still hear it in there. It is tough for me to tell which would be better since I am new to shots and would venture a guess that at least 3 of the shots i gave were too superficial and wasted:(

I have a feeling she will have to go back next week.

My vet told me to give a shot once a day for two weeks, and during that time to not feed. My Kingsnake doesn't have RI any longer, so I'm pretty glad.

Dr. Del has good questions -- did the vet do a culture and what is the antibiotic prescribed?

I use ceftazidime 20 mg/kg IM every 3 days until I get culture results back, then adjust antibiotics depending on the results. Vets that do not see a lot of exotics may not have this antibiotic on hand, however.

Dr. Scott Stahl, regarded as the leading reptile vet in the country, if not the world, recommends no SHORTER than a 30 day treatment and sometimes longer. Just because the symptoms are gone, doesn't mean that the illness is gone.

I've listened to his episode on Reptile Radio at least 5 times now, and I think it's one of the best shows they've done.

He specifically addresses respiratory infections and my veterinarian has listened to the episode in order to further his own education on the treatment of snakes and RI's.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/reptile...ile-Veterinary

I've talked to him

No Culture and prescribed Baytril

I recommended the every other day to him through PM

A Culture and Sensitivity test should always be the first protocol.

I believe he is aware the Baytril is a "shot in the dark" as to whether or not the Baytril will knock the RI out.

A lot of vets swear by it, due to ignorance or over confidence I don"t know.

But not every RI is created equal, and therefore shouldn't be treated as the last one they dealt with.

This misuse of drugs leads to VERY drug resistant bacteria that only make treating the problem more difficult or even resistant.

e.g. Penicillin was once a wonder drug, now look at how often it's used due to bacteria resistance.

CULTURE PEOPLE!!!

I would put my money on ignorance.

Baytril can cause muscle necrosis, so it's best to give subcutaneously and to dilute the dose with saline before injection. Also why I don't use it as a first-line treatment. 10 mg/kg every 48 hrs is the standard dose, but of course is pointless if the bug is resistant. Usually recommend a 20 day treatment, but perhaps I should listen to Dr. Stahl's radio show and see why he recommends 30.

Baytril can cause TISSUE necrosis. never heard of anything with the muscles. Subq is a good way to get Baytril "Burns" in my opinion. Diluting with Saline is also a good idea when using the 100mg/kg Baytril, but for the 22.5mg/kg, I've found a lot of people don't bother.

BEST way to prevent scarring is to inject it DEEP into the muscle and then rub the site to disperse the medication.

I give any medication when needed for a full month.

This is just my experience and by no means should go past your vets orders. But in my experience, most vets are clueless about herps and knowing a thing or two can sometimes be very beneficial.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

I would put my money on ignorance.

Baytril can cause muscle necrosis, so it's best to give subcutaneously and to dilute the dose with saline before injection. Also why I don't use it as a first-line treatment. 10 mg/kg every 48 hrs is the standard dose, but of course is pointless if the bug is resistant. Usually recommend a 20 day treatment, but perhaps I should listen to Dr. Stahl's radio show and see why he recommends 30.

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I say muscle necrosis because in the histopath slides I have seen of baytril injection site reactions, muscle was the tissue involved. SubQ admin of Baytril is recommended over IM injection by most herp vets I know, and dilution with saline is recommended even for 22.7 mg/ml to help prevent necrosis. The problem is, even with these precautions necrosis still happens. That's why I prefer not to use this drug in snakes if the infection is susceptible to alternative antibiotics.

Crittervet, I salute you:salute:

Interesting to hear of the subq recommendation. Ill have to mention that to my vet.

I too despise Baytril, but have used it in the past with success. Just like you though, not my first choice.

I think Mader talks about it in his latest edition of Reptile Med. and Surgery. If your vet doesn't have a copy, makes a great x-mas present. ;)

Baytril is quite the double-edged sword. It can be a life-saver in some situations, but in the wrong hands it can do so much harm. :(

My vet treated my 07 pastel recently for RI. He just says raise the temps well. Low temps = low absorbtion of meds w/possibility of meds building up to deadly levels in the body. High ambient temp with 92 max hot side. Raise humidity to about 65/70%. A culture and mouth/sinus exam. 3 Shots of baytril at one every 3 days.

He has done it exactly this way for my 03 when she was sick years ago and she never got sick again. My Pastel was treated a month ago and is now acting and looking completely normal again and is eating well again.

Im still keeping the temps on the high side for him to be sure its good and gone before he gets put in the rack system in about another 6 weeks.

my male BP has RI right now and im putting baytril into a pinki every day for 14 days and then feeding them to him...so the pinkis like a pill pretty much lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CritterVet

Dr. Del has good questions -- did the vet do a culture and what is the antibiotic prescribed?

I use ceftazidime 20 mg/kg IM every 3 days until I get culture results back, then adjust antibiotics depending on the results. Vets that do not see a lot of exotics may not have this antibiotic on hand, however.

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My vet only does the every 3 day dose for a total of 3 doses to lower the chances of necrosis. Ive only had 2 snakes treated that way so far and no problems have come of it. BUT im definately going to aks him about this other drug you brought up. My exotics vet has seen many many exotics and is known as the best in my area but if there may be something he doesnt know or tried, im all for expanding his learning.

What is most important is that the vet do a culture & sensitivity. The sensitivity results will dictate which antibiotic is the best to use in a given case. If the snake is showing signs of a respiratory infection, I'd do a tracheal wash for a culture sample and start the snake on ceftazidime while I wait for the culture & sensitivity results to come back. Ceftazidime is broad spectrum and safer than Baytril (IMO), that's why I use it as a "first line" antibiotic. If the culture results came back and showed the infection to be resistant to ceftazidime but susceptible to Baytril, I would switch the snake to Baytril at that point.

Keep in mind that respiratory infections, indeed most infections in captive reptiles, are related to husbandry conditions. An otherwise healthy, properly kept reptile should not get a respiratory infection. If multiple snakes in a collection are getting RIs, it's time to really analyze the husbandry and figure out what needs to be tweaked.

[QUOTE=Keep in mind that respiratory infections, indeed most infections in captive reptiles, are related to husbandry conditions. An otherwise healthy, properly kept reptile should not get a respiratory infection. If multiple snakes in a collection are getting RIs, it's time to really analyze the husbandry and figure out what needs to be tweaked.[/QUOTE]

Yes im fully aware of this point. My pastel did not get sick until i moved his enclosure and gave him a different heat source for the top of the tank. He still had a UTH but i put a lower wattage emitter on top. It was to only be temporary until i could move him to a rack but he started showing subtle signs of being sick before i could move him. So i took him to the vet right away & raised his temps and humidity. He responded well and looks fine now. Im keeping him quaranteend for another month or so but his temps are stable now.

I knew it was my moving him and making that subtle change that did it to him. He was completely healthy for the 2 yrs prior. Never going off feed even during breeding. Believe me. That was a lesson learned.