cermaic heatlamps vs sticky heatpads; which to continue using

quick question

I have an adult ball and a 3 month-old ball python, each in their own seperate terrariums with the usually setup... some cleaned small rocks, a artifical log, some fake jungle plant, some fake tree limbs to climb on, cypress mulch for betting, and approriate sized water dishes.

The adult stays in a 40gallon reptile tank, and the small, i beleive is a 25 or 30 gallon tank.

For the adult, I've been using a heatlamp on top of metal screen at one end of the cage with a 150watt cermaic bulb... average temp of 83f degrees using a ambient temp that uses two sensors at each of the cage, which also has a hygrometer, which usually states the humdity around 43%, though sometimes drops to 38%, though can spike higher when i spray the mulch and walls with some water upto 70%, usually back down to 40-50% within a couple of hours. The lamp is also connected to a reptitemp 500r thermostat, that lets me turn down the heat a bit at night to idle around 78-80f degrees.
the thermometer/hygrometer is a Zilla model with a LCD interface and two sensors for each end of the cage... I have one of these for each herp i own.

For the young ball, its basically has the same setup, though it has a 100watt lamp, and the ambient temperature from sensors setup at each end of the cage is usually around 80, somtimes ill through a another 60watt on top to bump it upto 84 degrees during the day. the hyrgometer reads about the same as the other, usually around the 40%-50% range. the lamp is also connected to a seperate repitemp 500r thermostat.

I'm thinking that the humitidy is far too low.

I previoulsy used sticky heatpads that were on the bottom of the tank, however, I always worried about the cypress mulch drying out and catching fire, and that it didnt quite seem to heat up the tank as much as the bulbs do... I'm not positive that ball pythons need so much of a basking spot as they do constant heat (as they are nocturnal... little hard to bask in the moonlight), but the heat pads did seem to keep the humidity in the high 50 to low 70 degree range. I also noticed the small one having shed problems, and while I've taken care of that by bathing it every other day, and having sufficient rugged objects for it to rub against in the cage, i belive its the low humidity affecting it.

I'm considering going back to heatpads, but I some questions on what wattages, size, and if i can place them on the side of the tank instead of the bottom, for worry of burning the snake and/or the mulch.

any advice would be most helpful!

I use a ceramic lamp in my gecko tank, since it's too thick for a UTH - plus their humidity requirements aren't that strict, so a humid hide is sufficient during sheds. But for a ball python most would recommend an under-tank heater, since as you have noticed, the lamps will suck out your humidity. Plus there's a danger of the snake getting burned, unless you have some kind of "cage" around the heat lamp.

If you have glass terrariums, there shouldn't be any danger in the substrate catching fire... the heater goes UNDER the tank, not inside of it, so it shouldn't even touch their bedding. I'd recommend a ZooMed 30-40gal size for each tank, unless your ambient house temperature is pretty warm (in which case you can get the 10-20gal size for the smaller tank). And while you can stick it on the side, it's really better for their digestion to get belly heat. I have flexwatt belly heat in my rack, and none of my 7 snakes or tubs have melted yet. ;) Good luck!

thak you for the info... I've allready got two repitemp 500r thermostats, and timer/dimmers that i used to use before i got those.

Before I go off an buy those heatpads you have linked to... anything out there would work as a small terrarium humidifier? not sure if anything like that exists?

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Originally Posted by beavermatic

thak you for the info... I've allready got two repitemp 500r thermostats, and timer/dimmers that i used to use before i got those.

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Sorry... I totally edited my post right after you (apparently) read it, because I noticed you already had the repti-temps. So anyone else reading this now might be confused by your response, LOL. :D

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Before I go off an buy those heatpads you have linked to... anything out there would work as a small terrarium humidifier? not sure if anything like that exists?

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They do make humidifiers for small terrariums, as I remember seeing them at a reptile expo - I think they were made by Exo-Terra?? Doesn't seem many people use them for ball pythons, however, since it might get things toooooo humid. Have you considered switching them to tubs? I had major humidity issues before switching mine over, and now I can't keep it LOW enough!

Here... I think this is the fogger I saw at the expo: http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/fogger.php
ZooMed also makes one for a bit more: http://www.petco.com/product/109982/...:referralID=NA

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Have you considered switching them to tubs? I had major humidity issues before switching mine over, and now I can't keep it LOW enough!

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Tubs... as in Tubberware boxes?

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Originally Posted by beavermatic

Tubs... as in Tubberware boxes?

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yes.

many people house reptiles in tubs, notably those that are terrestrial and have higher than average humidity requirements.

Look around at "reptile racks" on google and you'll get the picture, but you don't need a rack to have a tub.

When I used tanks I had to have both over head CHE and UTH to maintain proper temps, UTH isn't enough, and overhead by itself wasn't enough.

UTH's are for the snake to lay on to help it digest.
The snakes I don't have on belly heat digest slower than the ones on belly heat.

And yes, tanks are a pain, and tubs are awesome.
60% humidity full time and a push of the water bowl over the uth makes the humidity spike to 70% + making for nice one piece sheds.
I gave up on tanks after a couple of months and couldn't be happier.

I get all of my flexwatt at the beanfarm, good prices, prompt priority shipping to boot.
http://www.beanfarm.com/store/agora....=Heating&xm=on

you make it sound like i can go out and buy any old tubberware box and use it as a tank replacement... obviously theres some sort of catch to that, right?

I mean, I couldnt imagine heating up plastic to melt away or catch fire... is there some sort of special tubberware thats heat resistant? and what do you put over the top of it, a screen?

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Originally Posted by beavermatic

you make it sound like i can go out and buy any old tubberware box and use it as a tank replacement... obviously theres some sort of catch to that, right?

I mean, I couldnt imagine heating up plastic to melt away or catch fire... is there some sort of special tubberware thats heat resistant? and what do you put over the top of it, a screen?

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The heat is controlled with a thermostat.
Even off of a thermostat the flexwatt gets to 120 degrees and doesn't melt the tub(in my testing).
I use sterilite locking tubs, 6qt, 15 qt, 34qt and 40qt for my breeders.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...0797Medium.jpg
Tanks are nice for display, but so much hassle to clean, keep clean, keep humidity in, keep proper temps in, just plain a hassle compared to tubs.

just seems a bit cramped for my adult, it loves to crawl around all the articificial limbs and plants i have in my tank... If i purchase tubs, can i put cypress mulch in there to?

You can put whatever you want in a tub! :) Although you won't need any extra humidity, which I assume cypress mulch would provide... most people use newspaper (my choice), paper towels or Aspen in their tubs, since they're easy to clean/replace and don't cause humidity to spike. It really is that simple - get a Sterilite tub with lid, drill some holes around the sides for circulation, "furnish" as you please, add the heating source, and you're good to go. I swear, once you go to tubs, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner. ;) And no, the heat won't melt a tub - I once ran my UTH up to 110+ (no snake inside), and the plastic barely even felt hot.

Here are how my tubs look... I keep it simple since they don't care about aesthetics, and I don't care for cleaning tons of stuff. :P They also don't need much space, and most BPs are actually happier in a small habitat.

15qt with a hatchling (180g or so)
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...s/DSCF2372.jpg

41qt with a 2000g female & her temporary tub-mate (breeding pair)
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...s/DSCF1975.jpg

The full setup/rack
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...s/DSCF2371.jpg

well tubs it is then! thank you!

and what wattage would you heatpad would you recommend for my adult and younger ball python

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Originally Posted by beavermatic

just seems a bit cramped for my adult, it loves to crawl around all the articificial limbs and plants i have in my tank... If i purchase tubs, can i put cypress mulch in there to?

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It is cramped, and when you take them out they love you twice as much as before :P
You can use larger tubs too, and add branches and multiple hides.
Cypress isn't necessary in tubs unless your in a very low humidity area.
Generally they get plenty of humidity from the water bowl as it is.
I use paper, paper towels and aspen, just depends on the snake.

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Originally Posted by beavermatic

well tubs it is then! thank you!

and what wattage would you heatpad would you recommend for my adult and younger ball python

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I use 11 x 12 inch 20 watt per foot flexwatt for tubs 28qt and over.
I use 3 inch wide or 4 inch wide for smaller tubs.

Oh, and to show you how it can be made more interesting... here's a tub I set up for my leopard gecko, when I had to move her temporarily from her vivarium. And you could do even more than this!

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...s/DSCF1996.jpg

Not trying to convert you or anything (LOL), tubs are just soooooo much easier to maintain & clean... tanks are nice for display, but that gets old really quick when you have multiple herps. If I ever get a "display reptile" like a GTP or BRB, I'll probably get them a nice glass vivarium - until then I'm very happy with the Sterilites. :gj:

what kind of bedding is that? looks like white calci sand

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Originally Posted by beavermatic

you make it sound like i can go out and buy any old tubberware box and use it as a tank replacement... obviously theres some sort of catch to that, right?

I mean, I couldnt imagine heating up plastic to melt away or catch fire... is there some sort of special tubberware thats heat resistant? and what do you put over the top of it, a screen?

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Think about this. Does anything plastic melt when the room is 90*F?

NO.

If anything is hot enough to melt plastic it is hot enough to cook your snake. Obviously, 90* will not kill your snake or for that matter MELT plastic. I don't think 90* will melt or burn anything other than ice...

You do not need a special kind of tub. Any tub will work. The trickiest part is making them escape proof. Most people do this by removing the lids and putting them in a shelving system where there is just a tiny gap between the top of the tub and the next shelf. Slide them out like a drawer and insert snake. Tada

As for your current setups, you said your snake likes to slither around. Chances are this is just the snake either looking for food or being stressed and looking for a way out. Neither are good. A happy ball python is one you will never see come out of its hides unless it is poking its head out looking for a bite to eat.

The substrate she is using is paper towel. Never use sand with a ball python.

bought my tubs sterilite 105q /99l , bought UTH's (reptitherm 50-60gallon sized 25w), and plugging them into my reptitherm 500r thermostats....

I know everyone here says the uth is safe on the tub, but the safety thingy on the pads say strictly not for plastic or acrylic plastic, nothing other than glass....

is that basically just a "just in case, we told you so" warning....

just want to make absolutely sure i dont start a fire or melt the tubs or burn teh balls.

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Originally Posted by beavermatic

bought my tubs sterilite 105q /99l , bought UTH's (reptitherm 50-60gallon sized 25w), and plugging them into my reptitherm 500r thermostats....

I know everyone here says the uth is safe on the tub, but the safety thingy on the pads say strictly not for plastic or acrylic plastic, nothing other than glass....

is that basically just a "just in case, we told you so" warning....

just want to make absolutely sure i dont start a fire or melt the tubs or burn teh balls.

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Well first of all, a 105 quart tub is WAY TO BIG.
Even the biggest ball python goes in nothing bigger than a 41 quart tub.

As long as you are using the UTH with a thermostat, there will be no issue with it melting anything.

too big? better safer than sorry...

dont have a drill, some im heating up a screw driver and poking holes into the tub top and sides right now.... hope sterilite tubs dont give off any toxins when the plastic melts for those little air holes.

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Originally Posted by beavermatic

too big? better safer than sorry...

dont have a drill, some im heating up a screw driver and poking holes into the tub top and sides right now.... hope sterilite tubs dont give off any toxins when the plastic melts for those little air holes.

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The bigger the enclosure, the harder it will be to heat and the more stressed your snake will be.

So actually its better to be smaller.

When plastic melts it gives off toxins. Don't inhale them. Once it is dried it is fine though.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

When plastic melts it gives off toxins. Don't inhale them. Once it is dried it is fine though.

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I have all my windows open in the aprtment, fan on, though i can smell it a bit as its melthing the hole through the tub... dont think that will be any harm, do you?

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Originally Posted by beavermatic

I have all my windows open in the aprtment, fan on, though i can smell it a bit as its melthing the hole through the tub... dont think that will be any harm, do you?

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Nah, you should be fine. Just don't stick your nose right in it.

EDIt: took down the cam, had like 40 people watching, lol... slammed my net connection pretty good