Congressional Budget Office to "Score" HR2811

From USARK:

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Congressional Budget Office to "Score" HR2811

USARK was selected by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) to be the primary provider of Reptile Industry economic impact information in regards to HR2811 aka ‘The Python Ban’. The CBO is a non-partisan government agency that analyzes the economic impact of all the bills Congress writes. Other industry members were also contacted by the CBO or USARK to get input on the economic implications of HR2811. The CBO is in the process of “scoring” the bill; that is they are making a report of their evaluation regarding the impact this bill will have on the American economy, federal agency budgets and taxpayers.

We expect that the “score” for HR2811 will be out by early next week. Upon the release of the CBO report there will likely be some kind of move on HR2811. It could go to a floor vote, or a hearing, or further amendment. Of course USARK is fighting for further amendment. The bill was amended in July after pressure from USARK to change the scope of the bill from the BAN of the entire genus python, to only the Burmese Python (P. Molurus Bivittatus) and African Rock Python (P. Sebae). We continue to lobby to further limit the scope of the bill to ONLY the IMPORT of these two species; allowing the captive bred trade in these animals to continue.

USARK did the best job possible with these economic numbers. The CBO only gave us two business days to get this done. Nevertheless we made our deadline and painted an accurate picture of the kind of damage this bill could do to the Reptile Industry, the economy and the taxpayers. It is more costly than they might have imagined. The coming days will be critical to the Reptile Nation. Please stay tuned. Join us on Twitter for fast breaking updates.

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Thanks for the update Robin... The whole thing makes my belly flip. :weirdface

Just got my email as well!

So glad we have USARK on our side.

Just think about the people that have so much money invested into burmese pythons.... If usark doesnt get it changed we are all screwed. My stomach is really flipping

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Originally Posted by Denial

Just think about the people that have so much money invested into burmese pythons.... If usark doesnt get it changed we are all screwed. My stomach is really flipping

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the big question is how many actually claim everything.

The ammendment that usark pushed them into is what they should have started off with in the first place, not the total ban of all pythons. Get it pushed more for no importing. Who needs imports anyway. Maybe INCLUDE something about permits???? No imports, but the ability to trade within the country, and/or require permits.

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

The ammendment that usark pushed them into is what they should have started off with in the first place, not the total ban of all pythons. Get it pushed more for no importing. Who needs imports anyway. Maybe INCLUDE something about permits???? No imports, but the ability to trade within the country, and/or require permits.

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imports have their good side.

permits are not something that anyone should have to buy period! the biggest problem when we start talking permits is that they set the price high and then pretty much only breeders can afford them, but the problem with that is then there are little or no customers at all that can afford the permits or they just dont approve the permits period like in guam!

there is good points also, but unfortunately for us usually they will be far fewer than the bad points.

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Originally Posted by nixer

imports have their good side.

permits are not something that anyone should have to buy period! the biggest problem when we start talking permits is that they set the price high and then pretty much only breeders can afford them, but the problem with that is then there are little or no customers at all that can afford the permits or they just dont approve the permits period like in guam!

there is good points also, but unfortunately for us usually they will be far fewer than the bad points.

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Permits should be needed because of irresponsible owners. Maybe just one for all snakes. Like a license. To show that you can and will care for your large animals. They dont have to have a high price. It will help snakes and make people afraid of big snakes feel more secure maybe? :confused:

Honestly, because of the few irresponsible owners out there, that ruin it for everyone, I believe that Instead of "permits" there should be mandatory classes, and a mandatory test. Just like a drivers license. There are drivers licenses because irresponsible people get themselves or others killed. Same with VERY few snake owners (those are the idiots that ruin it for everyone). It would fend away impulse buyers (mostly), and educate the uninformed, if they still want to go through with it. THATS what needs to happen, because if you care about your herps, you'll go. You'll pay attention, and you'll pass the test. Just a thought. Forget permits that cost so many hundred dollars. Instead, make licenses that you have to take tests for. I know I would sit through a year of day in day out classes for my herp. Would you? Exactly. REAL snake owners would put in the time. Just my :2cent:.

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Originally Posted by lepidunce

Honestly, because of the few irresponsible owners out there, that ruin it for everyone, I believe that Instead of "permits" there should be mandatory classes, and a mandatory test. Just like a drivers license. There are drivers licenses because irresponsible people get themselves or others killed. Same with VERY few snake owners (those are the idiots that ruin it for everyone). It would fend away impulse buyers (mostly), and educate the uninformed, if they still want to go through with it. THATS what needs to happen, because if you care about your herps, you'll go. You'll pay attention, and you'll pass the test. Just a thought. Forget permits that cost so many hundred dollars. Instead, make licenses that you have to take tests for. I know I would sit through a year of day in day out classes for my herp. Would you? Exactly. REAL snake owners would put in the time. Just my :2cent:.

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Well.... thats what i was thinking. Whats the difference between a license and a permit? Ive heard em exchange license with permit for driving...
And yes that is the main reason I said to have a permit because it would stop impulse buyers. Really, a test like that cant be hard though. Wanna make up some example questions? I think that any question they can come up with, anyone who has searched xxxxx python on google will know what they have to ask. - and i said permits because its another thing people would have to pay for even if its a small fee it might turn someone who probably wouldnt be able to care for it or provide food away from a full grown large snake.

Does anyone know if there is an association similar to USARK in Canada? I'm sure if the USA is dealing with this kind of legislation, we can't be too far behind.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by lepidunce

Honestly, because of the few irresponsible owners out there, that ruin it for everyone, I believe that Instead of "permits" there should be mandatory classes, and a mandatory test. Just like a drivers license. There are drivers licenses because irresponsible people get themselves or others killed. Same with VERY few snake owners (those are the idiots that ruin it for everyone). It would fend away impulse buyers (mostly), and educate the uninformed, if they still want to go through with it. THATS what needs to happen, because if you care about your herps, you'll go. You'll pay attention, and you'll pass the test. Just a thought. Forget permits that cost so many hundred dollars. Instead, make licenses that you have to take tests for. I know I would sit through a year of day in day out classes for my herp. Would you? Exactly. REAL snake owners would put in the time. Just my :2cent:.

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I understand your good intent, but I think that's a terrible idea. There are plenty of people who wouldn't have bothered getting a ball python if they had to take classes (not everyone has time to spare), but ended up being involved members in the hobby, or even breeders. Not everybody is a devoted herper when they get their first snake.

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Originally Posted by omnibus2

I understand your good intent, but I think that's a terrible idea. There are plenty of people who wouldn't have bothered getting a ball python if they had to take classes (not everyone has time to spare), but ended up being involved members in the hobby, or even breeders. Not everybody is a devoted herper when they get their first snake.

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I think its supposed to be more focused on large species. The only benifit of having classes for smaller snakes would be for the animals well being. And I doubt that the government really cares about that.

Everyone should at least have SOME knowledge of what their getting no matter what it is. Its not like its hard to type in "ball python care sheet" on google.

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

I think its supposed to be more focused on large species. The only benifit of having classes for smaller snakes would be for the animals well being. And I doubt that the government really cares about that.

Everyone should at least have SOME knowledge of what their getting no matter what it is. Its not like its hard to type in "ball python care sheet" on google.

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i agree, but i dont think reading a few caresheets are going to qualify anyone for any permit. its not going to be cheap period. they have to make money on the permit system in order for it to work out for them or there will be no one to even approve the permits, just like in guam

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

The ammendment that usark pushed them into is what they should have started off with in the first place, not the total ban of all pythons. Get it pushed more for no importing. Who needs imports anyway. Maybe INCLUDE something about permits???? No imports, but the ability to trade within the country, and/or require permits.

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We all need imports. Thats how alot of new morphs have gotten here.
If you look at the import numbers with african rocks and burmese pythons compared to some other python species is pathetic. What if this were to ban the importation of ball pythons? There would be alot more buzz in it.

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Originally Posted by nixer

i agree, but i dont think reading a few caresheets are going to qualify anyone for any permit. its not going to be cheap period. they have to make money on the permit system in order for it to work out for them or there will be no one to even approve the permits, just like in guam

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Well yes, but say for a drivers license. It doesnt cost tons of money to get one. They should have something like that, and really I dont think it would be that bad just to have someone check on the enclosure they plan to use to "approve" of it. Or on a license test have some mock up situations that make the person think, like ask what they would do if theyre snake went missing, or how would they prevent it etc.

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Originally Posted by Denial

We all need imports. Thats how alot of new morphs have gotten here.
If you look at the import numbers with african rocks and burmese pythons compared to some other python species is pathetic. What if this were to ban the importation of ball pythons? There would be alot more buzz in it.

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Yeah I realized that after I posted, but I was more focused on wild caught types, but the trade of morphs internationally would be something that should be able to happen. I really dont know. I couldnt tell you how the government views any kind of breeding for animals that arent a wild type/ "normal". Even if they did ban the imports of ball pythons, what im saying is that we still have tons of morphs available here already, and stuff that can be mixed so its not like theres an end to all morphs and BP breeding.

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Originally Posted by omnibus2

There are plenty of people who wouldn't have bothered getting a ball python if they had to take classes (not everyone has time to spare), but ended up being involved members in the hobby, or even breeders. Not everybody is a devoted herper when they get their first snake.

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Sorry, I guess I should have made all that clear. I just meant classes for certain species of snakes, namely snakes that get to be over eight feet long. Also, if we could get rid of the small, small chunk of people that impulse buy retics, rocks, etc. for their first herp with no idea that they will get X feet long, we would be seen better by the media, and public in general. Because when it all boils down, which section of this community gets the lime light the most? The people that probably need those classes. I just think those classes would make the impulse buyers hesitate, and possibly become better keepers because they know what they are getting into, instead of getting on channel five because they hit the lottery with a "gentle giant" of a blood, and hurting someone. :oops: In short, let's try to educate the idiots BEFORE they do stuff that gets a new HR2811 passed.

Edit: thanks, I <3 Dreamsicles. You summed up the class thing for me. :D

I'm afraid I'd have to go against the idea of a permit, license, or anything else of that manner. A license is, at it's base, permission from the government to do something illegal(Meaning that if you don't have a license, can you own the animal? No. Why? It would be illegal). If we accept the idea of licensing, for anything, we are accepting that it is illegal. At that point, politicians can slowly make it more and more difficult to acquire the license, to the point of near or total impossibility. It's really a matter of liberty.

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Originally Posted by MattU

I'm afraid I'd have to go against the idea of a permit, license, or anything else of that manner. A license is, at it's base, permission from the government to do something illegal(Meaning that if you don't have a license, can you own the animal? No. Why? It would be illegal). If we accept the idea of licensing, for anything, we are accepting that it is illegal. At that point, politicians can slowly make it more and more difficult to acquire the license, to the point of near or total impossibility. It's really a matter of liberty.

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Some times things like that are needed because of a few idiots. Why do you think they have driving licenses and gun permits? Stupid people. Have they tried to get rid of cars or guns? Not really.

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

Some times things like that are needed because of a few idiots. Why do you think they have driving licenses and gun permits? Stupid people. Have they tried to get rid of cars or guns? Not really.

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"Not really" would be the important part there. "Not really", but somewhat. They have some serious restrictions on them, especially on guns. Yes, as crazy as it sounds to some people, I am against those licenses too. But that's not the point of this particular discussion. What it boils down to, and keep in mind this is only my opinion, is that I don't feel the need to acquire permission from some bureaucrat to own a kingsnake, or a ball python, or a 20 foot retic. That's my business, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

Like I said though, just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by MattU

"Not really" would be the important part there. "Not really", but somewhat. They have some serious restrictions on them, especially on guns. Yes, as crazy as it sounds to some people, I am against those licenses too. But that's not the point of this particular discussion. What it boils down to, and keep in mind this is only my opinion, is that I don't feel the need to acquire permission from some bureaucrat to own a kingsnake, or a ball python, or a 20 foot retic. That's my business, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.

Like I said though, just my opinion.

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So with that mind set your saying anyone should be able to drive a car, thats their buisness. Even if they drive drunk??? What about if they are a kid? 12 years old. No need for a license, hey no age limit. Who cares, they havent hurt anyone -- YET --
Or if a burm owner doenst properly secure its cage??? Or you can own a gun as long as you dont hurt anyone. Guns go off on accident.
The thing is STUFF happens. Thats why there are rules and regulations to prevent it.

Are you against restrictions that prevent felons from owning guns? What about people with violent a history? :gj:
And driving license restrictions really arent very serious. All you have to do is prove you can operate a vehicle with out crashing it, with in what... 3 minutes of a driving test? Then YOU PASS! Your are now deemed skilled enough to drive anywhere at any time because of those three minutes of driving well.

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

So with that mind set your saying anyone should be able to drive a car, thats their buisness. Even if they drive drunk??? What about if they are a kid? 12 years old. No need for a license, hey no age limit. Who cares, they havent hurt anyone -- YET --
Or if a burm owner doenst properly secure its cage??? Or you can own a gun as long as you dont hurt anyone. Guns go off on accident.
The thing is STUFF happens. Thats why there are rules and regulations to prevent it.

Are you against restrictions that prevent felons from owning guns? What about people with violent a history? :gj:
And driving license restrictions really arent very serious. All you have to do is prove you can operate a vehicle with out crashing it, with in what... 3 minutes of a driving test? Then YOU PASS! Your are now deemed skilled enough to drive anywhere at any time because of those three minutes of driving well.

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Ha I get this reaction a lot. I said nothing about drunk driving though, if you do that, and youre obviously a danger or if you harm some one, you should pay the price. I would hope the parents of any twelve year old would not allow them to drive. Yes guns can go off an accident. How would a license stop that? It can't. Nothing can stop accidents except being in a locked padded room. People with a violent history- No, im not necessarily against those laws. You're right about driving license requirements being pretty slack. What's the point of even having them? It's nothing more than another tax, and it has not helped a thing.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, if we all thought the same it'd be a pretty boring world:gj:

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Originally Posted by MattU

Ha I get this reaction a lot. I said nothing about drunk driving though, if you do that, and youre obviously a danger or if you harm some one, you should pay the price. I would hope the parents of any twelve year old would not allow them to drive. Yes guns can go off an accident. How would a license stop that? It can't. Nothing can stop accidents except being in a locked padded room. People with a violent history- No, im not necessarily against those laws. You're right about driving license requirements being pretty slack. What's the point of even having them? It's nothing more than another tax, and it has not helped a thing.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, if we all thought the same it'd be a pretty boring world:gj:

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Yes but what your saying is someone who is drunk could drive. Its their buisness. They havent hurt anyone yet. Just like your snake hasnt either. But it CAN. If you act like this it is like saying your burm is a danger. You have to pay the price. It hasnt done anything yet but it can, just like a drunk driver. Get what im saying??? The permit/license will hopefully PREVENT IT before it happens.

A license wouldnt stop a gun going off, im just saying crap happens. just becuase it did happen doesnt make it your fault. You are saying to just wait for an accident to happen then move into action instead of preventing these accidents first. With a gun license the owner actually LEARNS some stuff about how to deal with guns and how to hold them and how to make sure they are un loaded and always on saftey. Making them, a person with a license, a safer owner/ user of a gun.

With a large snake being a possible danger, you stop accidents before they happen. Prevent irresponsible people from being able to own them instead of WAITING for them to do something idiotic and give the media something else to talk about hurting reptile owners reputations, and feeding people some bull hockey that theyre going to believe becuase they heard it on the news, so of course its a fact. (eye roll)

I dont think I can explain it much more.

and well, driving licenses at least stop a very few amount of people who are stupid enough to not know how to drive from being on the streets. It may be slack but it still does a little bit.

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

Yes but what your saying is someone who is drunk could drive. Its their buisness. They havent hurt anyone yet. Just like your snake hasnt either. But it CAN. If you act like this it is like saying your burm is a danger. You have to pay the price. It hasnt done anything yet but it can, just like a drunk driver. Get what im saying??? The permit/license will hopefully PREVENT IT before it happens.

A license wouldnt stop a gun going off, im just saying crap happens. just becuase it did happen doesnt make it your fault. You are saying to just wait for an accident to happen then move into action instead of preventing these accidents first. With a gun license the owner actually LEARNS some stuff about how to deal with guns and how to hold them and how to make sure they are un loaded and always on saftey. Making them, a person with a license, a safer owner/ user of a gun.

With a large snake being a possible danger, you stop accidents before they happen. Prevent irresponsible people from being able to own them instead of WAITING for them to do something idiotic and give the media something else to talk about hurting reptile owners reputations, and feeding people some bull hockey that theyre going to believe becuase they heard it on the news, so of course its a fact.

I dont think I can explain it much more.

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Worry not, I've understood your position from the beginning. It's the position of many people. I just happen to have a different view on things. I tend to be pretty anti-government. Before this gets heated though, I'm going to bed lol. Thanks for the discussion!

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Originally Posted by MattU

Worry not, I've understood your position from the beginning. It's the position of many people. I just happen to have a different view on things. I tend to be pretty anti-government. Before this gets heated though, I'm going to bed lol. Thanks for the discussion!

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woot anarchy.
i need bed too.

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

So with that mind set your saying anyone should be able to drive a car, thats their buisness. Even if they drive drunk??? What about if they are a kid? 12 years old. No need for a license, hey no age limit. Who cares, they havent hurt anyone -- YET --
Or if a burm owner doenst properly secure its cage??? Or you can own a gun as long as you dont hurt anyone. Guns go off on accident.
The thing is STUFF happens. Thats why there are rules and regulations to prevent it.

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I believe the following two statistics are accurate:

45 thousand americans die in car crashes every year.

12 people TOTAL in the past ~20 years have died from captive reptiles. This includes venomous reptiles and salmonella infections. And unless I'm mistaken, all of those people have been the owners of the animals or residents where the animal resided.

Now the number of people that drive far outweighs the number of dangerous reptiles kept privately, but I still believe that statistically, driving is far more dangerous than keeping reptiles with the ability to kill humans.

The big issue for me is that for the most part, keeping dangerous reptiles is not dangerous to the community at large. The same cannot be said for driving, or even firearms. When you drive, you put thousands of people at risk. Just think of all the pedestrians and all the other cars around.

You don't need a license to operate vehicles on private property, or carry firearms on private property either.

The laws regarding purchasing firearms are to fight crime. We already have laws regarding purchasing reptiles and preventing reptile-related crime. The thing is that reptile-related crime is usually related to illegal importation/exportation, which is directly related to conserving wildlife.

Until dangerous reptiles start attacking and killing random people in public, I'm not going to be in favor of legislation based on the argument of safety.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

I believe the following two statistics are accurate:

45 thousand americans die in car crashes every year.

12 people TOTAL in the past ~20 years have died from captive reptiles. This includes venomous reptiles and salmonella infections. And unless I'm mistaken, all of those people have been the owners of the animals or residents where the animal resided.

Now the number of people that drive far outweighs the number of dangerous reptiles kept privately, but I still believe that statistically, driving is far more dangerous than keeping reptiles with the ability to kill humans.

The big issue for me is that for the most part, keeping dangerous reptiles is not dangerous to the community at large. The same cannot be said for driving, or even firearms. When you drive, you put thousands of people at risk. Just think of all the pedestrians and all the other cars around.

You don't need a license to operate vehicles on private property, or carry firearms on private property either.

The laws regarding purchasing firearms are to fight crime. We already have laws regarding purchasing reptiles and preventing reptile-related crime. The thing is that reptile-related crime is usually related to illegal importation/exportation, which is directly related to conserving wildlife.

Until dangerous reptiles start attacking and killing random people in public, I'm not going to be in favor of legislation based on the argument of safety.

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I know that the amount of deaths is way less but I was just making a point of the reasons why to have a license or not. To prevent stuff. Thats how the government would see it.

If you dont need a license to operate a vehicle on private property how come you can get a DUI on your own property? Its your property. And you may not need one to carry a gun but you do need one to own a gun.

Enough babbling about cars and guns now im getting to confused. :rolleye2:
and tired........

Im not in favor of the legislation either. All i said is that, that is what they should push for. The way it would be from what im saying is alot better then what they are making it now. Would you rather have all pythons illegal as opposed to a permit or license for large snakes??????????????? :confused:

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Originally Posted by MattU

You're right about driving license requirements being pretty slack. What's the point of even having them? It's nothing more than another tax, and it has not helped a thing.

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The purpose of a driver's license goes beyond a pre-emptive verification of safe driving ability.

First and foremost it is legal, state-issued photo identification. I could write a college level thesis for a politics class on the value of legal, tamper-resistant government issued photo identification.

Second of all, despite being a "license", the theory behind the driver's licensing is still NOT pre-emptive verification of safe driving ability, but an ability of the government to revoke driving privileges after infringement of safe driving. This is why it is so easy to get your license, but so hard to get it back after you lose it.

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

And you may not need one to carry a gun but you do need one to own a gun.

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I don't. In Minnesota I need permission from the local police department in the county I reside in to purchase assault rifles or handguns, but I don't need to keep up that license to continue owning those firearms, it is only a license to PURCHASE, not to own. This is to prevent illegal trade. When that license expires, I can't buy any more handguns/assault rifles without renewing it, but I can continue to own and use the firearms I have already purchased without renewing it.

In addition, shotguns and non-assualt rifles require no permit whatsoever. I just have to fill out a quick piece of paperwork that warns felons against purchasing firearms as it's illegal, and show my ID proving that I am who I say I am so they can double check I'm not a felon. I suppose I do need to be 18 years old, so yes there are age limits for both driving and firearms, and that argument does hold a bit of water in regards to dangerous reptiles. But still, there is no "licensing" for firearm OWNERSHIP, at least not in my state.

you dont need a license to purchase guns period in many many states.
they dont stop crime period especially that way more guns that are in crimes are purchased illegally or stolen. also there is many states that want to limit issuing of licenses every year and attempting to put more requirements on them.

drivers licenses dont stop drunk driving or any other illegal acts. also not having a license does not make ppl stop driving.

both of which seem to keep going up in price. both of these are designed for tracking of people with said items.

but then again im also against the whole safety based law system that we seem to have fell into. i mean really statistically the more of anything you have the more accidents/incidents there will be.

as i stated before look at guam they have a reptile permit system but they also stated publicly that they do not/will not approve them.

at the same time being that many many ppl jsut in this forum keep their snakes at different temps, different types of caging, feed different schedules and different feeders. who is to say what they tell you is really a safe economical way to keep your reptiles. what if they say that a plastic tub isnt secure enough for any reptile? what if they say a burm needs cage thats equal to its length? who would have room for a cage thats 18' long!!! also just look at the current interviews with these supposed "biologists" and their misinformation that they continually fling on the news. seriously this is the stupidity that licensing can bring upon.

iloveleucie63 do you have some input on the topic or do you just give everyone a neg rep for not going along with your friends posts?

as for the guam thing i found a cache of the original article on Marianas Variety Guam Edition

which copys as follows:


DA seizes pythons, probes importation of reptiles
Tuesday, 31 March 2009 01:52 by Mar-Vic Cagurangan | Variety News Staff


CONSERVATION officers from the Department of Agriculture have confiscated two pythons that have been illegally sneaked into Guam.

At the same, the department has linked up with the Department of Interior’s Fish and Wildlife Services to investigate the illegal importation of the 5-foot long reptiles that have been found in a private residence.

“It is illegal to import all kinds of exotic animals to Guam without obtaining a permit first. But we don’t give permits for reptiles and other dangerous animals,” DA director Paul Bassler told Variety.

“Certain species are prohibited entry into Guam because their pose extreme and detrimental harm to Guam’s native specials and environment,” a press release from the department stated.

DA said the owners of the confiscated snakes are facing local and federal charges for violations of the Lacey Act, which correspond to a penalty of fines and jail term.

Bassler declined to name the snakes’ shippers, saying “we’re still doing the investigation.”

Bassler said he is not aware of any other pythons that may exist on Guam except the ones on display at the now-defunct Southern Comfort Zoo and the Cushing Zoo in Tumon.

“Southern Comfort is now closed. But there’s still a snake on display at Cushing Zoo. They have both obtained license for display from the U.S. Department of Agriculture,” Bassler said.

Guam is currently struggling to eradicate the brown tree snakes that have been preying on Guam’s abundant resources. The brown tree snake was accidentally transported to Guam in 1952.

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Originally Posted by nixer

iloveleucie63 do you have some input on the topic or do you just give everyone a neg rep for not going along with your friends posts?

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you have no idea what youre talking about. so just shut up

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Originally Posted by iloveleucie63

you have no idea what youre talking about. so just shut up

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excuse me! dont tell me to shut up!


Latest Reputation Received
Thread Date Posted By Comment
Congressional Budget... 10-10-2009 11:20 PM iloveleucie63

i suppose you did not do this one either huh?

Congressional Budget... 10-14-2009 03:53 PM iloveleucie63

or was that an accident also?

perhaps your just a childish liar and should read the rules

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Originally Posted by nixer

i suppose you did not do this one either huh?

Congressional Budget... 10-14-2009 03:53 PM iloveleucie63

or was that an accident also?

perhaps your just a childish liar and should read the rules

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What color is it. Just because he gave you REP doesnt mean its bad.

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

What color is it. Just because he gave you REP doesnt mean its bad.

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perhaps you should inform your friend of the rules around here.

first he said he didnt then it was an accident now he did it again. sure sounds like a lair. telling other members to shutup and someone out to just stir the pot.

also tell your friend to stop pming me

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Originally Posted by nixer

perhaps you should inform your friend of the rules around here.

first he said he didnt then it was an accident now he did it again. sure sounds like a lair. telling other members to shutup and someone out to just stir the pot.

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Perhaps you should answer my question?
Before you freak out more...

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Originally Posted by I<3Dreamsicles

Perhaps you should answer my question?
Before you freak out more...

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yeah, i think ur freaking out for no reason dude. because i know for a FACT that i left u positive rep the second time. i think this is all a misunderstanding.

Ok. Like an idiot, I deleted my post before I posted it. In short, the idiots that die will ALWAYS get the limelight, not the responsible people. And also, everyone will keep trying to bury this hobby, from the massive amount of missinformation (plus the idiots). We need to figure out how to limit the idiots. I think requiring a permit is a wonderful way to do so. Just my :2cent:

P.S. I think this should somehow be a rep free zone(don't think it's possible, sadly). Less :rage:, ya know?

I'm curious, is there really an extremely large surplus of African Rocks and Burmese python morphs coming through that mean a lot to breeders? I don't hear about it very often and was wondering how much the importation would effect the business for large snake breeders.
But also, we have to realize that the general public and the government considers these animals dangerous, and they will keep fighting to do something about it until SOME sort of bill or amendment goes through. We have to try to come to an agreement somewhere, and if that means losing importation on large species but allows us to still breed, keep, and sell the animals as we wish, then that may be a sacrifice we have to make for the peace.

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Originally Posted by iloveleucie63

yeah, i think ur freaking out for no reason dude. because i know for a FACT that i left u positive rep the second time. i think this is all a misunderstanding.

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Then, to clear this up, maybe you should ask an admin to remove all of the reputation that you've recently given him?
Then assign a single rep to a post that you originally meant and leave it from there.

I'm a little confused on why your thanking every response to this thread though.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Then, to clear this up, maybe you should ask an admin to remove all of the reputation that you've recently given him?
Then assign a single rep to a post that you originally meant and leave it from there.

I'm a little confused on why your thanking every response to this thread though.

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i talked to an admin and told him my side and all he said was thanks for sharing your side of the story, and i never heard anything since then

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Originally Posted by iloveleucie63

i talked to an admin and told him my side and all he said was thanks for sharing your side of the story, and i never heard anything since then

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I'm not a he - I'm a she.

If you do not feel that your issue was resolved, shoot me a PM and we can continue, otherwise, let's keep this thread ON TOPIC. It's already muddied up with finger pointing and immature "your momma" type messages. :colbert:

Seriously - if we can't act like mature adults on an internet forum, how are we expected to be taken seriously when it comes to fighting to keep our animals?

Is it REALLY necessary to have the staff step in to mediate in order to ask people to play well with others?

good to see usark's involvement.

imports are not bad. guess where almost all of those new morphs come from...the wild. plus if done correctly, imports give people of native lands to the herps incentive to conserve them and their habitat.

i hate permits. it's just more involvement from the government, which in this country of 'freedom' we have enough of. of course i'd rather see permits than a ban. but permits really suck.

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Originally Posted by redpython

good to see usark's involvement.

imports are not bad. guess where almost all of those new morphs come from...the wild. plus if done correctly, imports give people of native lands to the herps incentive to conserve them and their habitat.

i hate permits. it's just more involvement from the government, which in this country of 'freedom' we have enough of. of course i'd rather see permits than a ban. but permits really suck.

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also what many ppl do not put thought into is just how many animals that were saved by captive breeding projects beyond what zoos and other "scientific" programs have done