Mystics??

I've seen a few of these and to be honest im not that impressed, very plain looking snake IMHO for $2,400. Is it a key ingredient in some other cool never-been-done morph? I've seen "mystic potions" and those are pretty sweet, but to be honest i dont see what all the hype is about. The "Disco" balls have me pretty much saying the same thing. No offense, maybe im missing something here, so i welcome all comments. Thanks!

It takes tons of time and effort to breed a particular morph. How much do you think it would cost you to go to Africa, attempt to find a ball morph bring it back and possibly breed something from it? People pay good money for a particular color or pattern morph that is the only way they can ever own this type of snake.

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Originally Posted by nicktreb

It takes tons of time and effort to breed a particular morph. How much do you think it would cost you to go to Africa, attempt to find a ball morph bring it back and possibly breed something from it? People pay good money for a particular color or pattern morph that is the only way they can ever own this type of snake.

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Exactly the reason why they are priced accordingly, but they also are still rare.

Not many other combos have been made with them, they are a part of the BEL complex, so the combos can be somewhat similar to Mojaves and Specials.

Does the super mystic excite you?

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php...46691,1746731#

They also have a super form that looks amazing :gj:

Edit: Doh! Robin beat me to it.

actually.. if you do a search on this board you can find various threads in regards to the mystic. seems that they could be the same as RDR's phantom and I think a super mystic has been proved, which looks very similiar, if not the same, as the super phantom. sometimes the subtle looking morphs hold the key to very desirable morphs. I'm sure someone with a better understanding of genetics could fill you in more (I'm still trying to learn the genetics aspect of this hobby).

ps: doh.. everyone beat me to it! :lol:

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Originally Posted by pvdgod

I've seen a few of these and to be honest im not that impressed, very plain looking snake IMHO for $2,400. Is it a key ingredient in some other cool never-been-done morph? I've seen "mystic potions" and those are pretty sweet, but to be honest i dont see what all the hype is about. The "Disco" balls have me pretty much saying the same thing. No offense, maybe im missing something here, so i welcome all comments. Thanks!

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Morphs are varaiable and many can be SUBTLE. Others are stepping stones to other creations that look much more extreme than the base morph. Rarity comes into play with the price-point of many animals. The more popular a morph is/longer a morph has been captively bred, the more of them there are -- and therefore the price will go down over time.

I would imagine that EVERYONE has a few morphs that they find less than inspiring and /or overpriced. It is all realtive and a MATTER OF PERSONAL TASTE. ;)

MANY of my favorite morphs/combos are not yellow and black patterned -- as hard as that is to believe. :)

absolutely those super mystics are very nice unique looking snake. My point is that a lof of "new" morphs these days are hard to distinguish from other existing morphs. I understand that the more rare it is, the more it will cost, thats basic economics, i just think a lot of people are so eager to be the one with that next hot morph that even the slightlest variance from the "normal" appearance will get it's own new morph established.

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Originally Posted by pvdgod

... i just think a lot of people are so eager to be the one with that next hot morph that even the slightlest variance from the "normal" appearance will get it's own new morph established.

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I agree with this statement, that there are undoubtedly folks who get way too hyped up over the slightest little predictable variable and then give it a name and slap a big price tag on it. HOWever...the ones that generate real excitement among the community as a whole, and among those who make it their life's work to recognize true potential are the ones that we usually end up hearing about here. These morphs, even if subtle in their het form...prove themselves either as a super and/or in combination with other genes. And there's nothing wrong with getting excited about that, and pricing it for whatever you feel it's worth. :gj:

The super mystics almost look like an imcomplete BEL. Like someone got distracted reducing the color to white and stopped half way.

I'd only seen the mystic potion, and its awesome, and the super mystic is awesome too! I really wish I had the $$$ to get one to pair with my female mojave, if I did I'd get one in a heartbeat!

Personally I think they're nice and would make a fun mutation to play with, but I don't like it enough to pay that kind of money for it. I'm perfectly content to wait until they drop into my price range. For me it's not a 'must have' morph.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Does the super mystic excite you?

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php...46691,1746731#

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As much as I like seeing pictures of snakes, I don't think Anthony should be allowed to take pictures. :P

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Originally Posted by Bill Buchman

I would imagine that EVERYONE has a few morphs that they find less than inspiring and /or overpriced. It is all realtive and a MATTER OF PERSONAL TASTE. ;)

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Perfect sample: Axanthics.

Axanthics have dropped in price considerably considering their still relative rarity. And they are also a morph not many people care much for.

But a Axanthic Combo is very pricey (Ie: Spiders Het. Axanthic are $2K and a Axanthic Spider are $5K).

thanks a lot for the informative comments. Is mystic a recessive trait then? The few pics ive seen of "normal" mystics to me look like a regular cinny or something. Can someone also explain this "special" mutation also?

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Originally Posted by pvdgod

thanks a lot for the informative comments. Is mystic a recessive trait then? The few pics ive seen of "normal" mystics to me look like a regular cinny or something. Can someone also explain this "special" mutation also?

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It isn't recessive, it's co-dominate, but not many people have it, it's still a very new morph.

Mystic is co-dominant. It's a different mutation of the same gene as lesser/butter, mojave, Vin Russo, mocha, special, and hidden (different versions of the same gene are called alleles). It's sure looking like Phantom is the exact same mutation of that blue eyed leucistic gene but the others are different mutations of that gene (it's also arguable if lesser and butter are the exact same version or different versions from each other). The look of a het mystic paired with the normal copy of the blue eyed leucistic gene isn't extreme enough to justify the cost. What you would buy a mystic for is the breeding potential to make the much more striking homozygous mystic or a mix such as the mystic potion (one copy mystic version of the blue eyed leucistic gene and one copy the mojave version of that same gene). Likely the mystic\\lesser combo will be the leucistic Karma look like phantom\\lesser. Have there been any other combos of either phantom or mystic with other mutations of this blue eyed lecustic gene?

One thing I find interesting is what mystic has done for mojave. A few years ago you would never hear someone wanting mojave over lesser. Of course it's all personal preference but I think most find the lesser by it's self (or rather with the normal version of the blue eyed leucistic gene) a more striking morph than mojave. Also the homozygous lesser is whiter than the homozygous mojave. But given the potential to create a mystic potion(mojave\\mystic) or crystal (mojave\\special) I'm now hoping my male is mojave and not lesser (although I'll want to add lesser to my collection eventually).

http://snakemorphs.com/collection/im...MMVT01_med.jpg

Long story short his two possible fathers are a lesser and a mojave but his mom is a dark chocolate like morph that I was thinking could have possibly darkened a lesser to look more like a mojave. Most likely he is a mojave (I think the pattern is right even looking past the questionable color) but I'm going to try breeding him to a ch mystic type girl and am sure hoping he isn't a lesser as I want mystic potions more than karma if I'm lucky enough for the girl to be what I hope.

Of course you can't make a platy (lesser\\hidden) without lesser so maybe once hidden becomes available lessers will put mojave in it's place again.

I just remembered, the phantom\\hidden has been done, that was RDR's phantom 44. Wonder how those turned out as adults?

The Mystic is subtle , I never claimed it wasn't!

The project has alot of "punch" to it if you pair it up properly!

The Super Mystic in my opinion proves it is a type of Phantom.

I am looking forward to putting the Mystic into the Crystal project, the Yb project, the Fire project and a few others to see what comes out of it!

I like the post about me me not being allowed to take snake pics, that was some funny stuff right there, lol!!!

Randy just wondered what that pic is of, it looks like a dark Mojave to me , is this the one your not sure if it's dad is the lesser or not (if so that isn't a dark lesser in my opinion blushing on the sides is wrong) or is this that Ch female your hoping to prove out, wasn't clear in your post so just wondered?

Thanks for all your posts , I think everyone has a right to their opinion! I'm just glad that my opinion that the Mystic was yet another type of Phantom is now more than just an opinion!!!!

Take care folks..

Anthony McCain-McCain's Reptiles

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Mystic is co-dominant. It's a different mutation of the same gene as lesser/butter, mojave, Vin Russo, mocha, special, and hidden (different versions of the same gene are called alleles). It's sure looking like Phantom is the exact same mutation of that blue eyed leucistic gene but the others are different mutations of that gene (it's also arguable if lesser and butter are the exact same version or different versions from each other). The look of a het mystic paired with the normal copy of the blue eyed leucistic gene isn't extreme enough to justify the cost. What you would buy a mystic for is the breeding potential to make the much more striking homozygous mystic or a mix such as the mystic potion (one copy mystic version of the blue eyed leucistic gene and one copy the mojave version of that same gene). Likely the mystic\\lesser combo will be the leucistic Karma look like phantom\\lesser. Have there been any other combos of either phantom or mystic with other mutations of this blue eyed lecustic gene?

One thing I find interesting is what mystic has done for mojave. A few years ago you would never hear someone wanting mojave over lesser. Of course it's all personal preference but I think most find the lesser by it's self (or rather with the normal version of the blue eyed leucistic gene) a more striking morph than mojave. Also the homozygous lesser is whiter than the homozygous mojave. But given the potential to create a mystic potion(mojave\\mystic) or crystal (mojave\\special) I'm now hoping my male is mojave and not lesser (although I'll want to add lesser to my collection eventually).

http://snakemorphs.com/collection/im...MMVT01_med.jpg

Long story short his two possible fathers are a lesser and a mojave but his mom is a dark chocolate like morph that I was thinking could have possibly darkened a lesser to look more like a mojave. Most likely he is a mojave (I think the pattern is right even looking past the questionable color) but I'm going to try breeding him to a ch mystic type girl and am sure hoping he isn't a lesser as I want mystic potions more than karma if I'm lucky enough for the girl to be what I hope.

Of course you can't make a platy (lesser\\hidden) without lesser so maybe once hidden becomes available lessers will put mojave in it's place again.

I just remembered, the phantom\\hidden has been done, that was RDR's phantom 44. Wonder how those turned out as adults?

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Randy, I'm CRUSHED you omitted the mention of the Caramel Mojave in the Mojave comeback story. ;) I know it is one of your favs. :D

Sorry Bill, my bad. The Caramel Mojave is awesome! It could even be part of a caramel come back story.

Anthony, that is my male 99% sure just plain mojave. One of his possible fathers was a lesser though and this is his mother a presumed ch.

http://snakemorphs.com/collection/im...ed_12years.jpg

I have a sister that I'm thinking is the combo of mom (calling her Garcia but might well be a new line of chocolate) and mojave:

http://snakemorphs.com/collection/im...d_11months.jpg

I don't have much experience with mojave and none with lesser so I got to wondering if a chocolate lesser might look like a mojave. I would still be pretty happy with that as I really need a male of whatever mom is (she is off on a breeding loan to one of her sons right now as I don't have a Garcia (chocolate?) son of my own and am dying to find out if there is a super and what it looks like).

I've never been able to take a good picture of the ch female that I'm hoping might be like your mystic. They never show her rich dark color but you can see her pattern in this one. She has a wide white belly:

http://snakemorphs.com/images/F04RPET_med.jpg

Assuming I don’t luck out on this girl I’ll eventually have to get a mystic as those mystic potions really do it for me. So that’s another reason I need the male from my previous post to be a mojave, so I can make some mojave daughters to start growing up to be mystic potion moms some day. May have to breed him to my possible possible het caramel girl too Bill!

Right there with you Randy on preferring the Mojos over Lessers... not that each has it's own merits, but what others saw as "flawed" I saw as cool. The colour cast on the super form in Mojos is what make these new crosses so awesome. ;)