Okay... so is THIS a good lock??

The last "lock" I showed a picture of was definitely a questionable one... but when I checked on them today, I found this:

Looks like a good one to me! :)
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...s/DSCF1986.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...s/DSCF1991.jpg


Assuming that was a good one, can they get "pregnant" (or whatever you call the steps leading up to being gravid) from one or two tries? I'll keep introducing them until it's obvious she's gravid/ovulating, but just wondering how long I have to prepare! I've only experienced this miracle with mammals, so the whole process is still a bit confusing to me... even after reading the McCurley chapter on breeding like 5 times. :cool:

If its not a lock, their trying

good luck

Yep yep.

Thanks! They were still like that when I checked a little while ago, so if nothing else they're definitely trying. :D Btw, they are half in & half out of their hide (litter box I made them last night), in case the pictures look weird... I tried removing the hides altogether, but it stressed out Mona too much.

I feel your pain... I had a few "is that a lock??" moments when I first paired my bp's a while back. If it's not a lock, though, it's definitely courtship, which means they'll do it eventually, if this wasn't "it". It's terrible waiting for a real one though. I got my first *definite* lock on Saturday, and after seeing a few maybe-locks, it was thrilling!

Actually, looking closer at your pics, it seems like the places where their vents would be are a little far apart compared to confirmed locks I've seen in pictures. But hey, I'm new to breeding, so who knows?

Good luck to you, and keep pairing them up, they'll get there :gj:

Thanks for the replies! Keep in mind that there's a big size/age difference between them, in case that alters your perception of where things are... he's about 575g and she is nearly 2000g. What can I say, my girl is a cougar. :D

Lucky! lol i hope i see this in the next couple of days with my pair! Good luck with your next clutch!

Thanks! This is actually my FIRST clutch ever, so I'm more excited than you can imagine... but I am sooooo not a patient person, and know the next few months (??) will be torture. :weirdface

How long have they been in the same tub for?

Fyi, the lovebirds are still together, but seem to be done locking for the time being... I'll leave him there until tonight/tomorrow, just in case he has another burst of energy. :D

I read somewhere (Markus Jayne's site?) to look for about 5-6 good locks, before assuming the female is gravid... is that a common rule-of-thumb, and/or does it often happen with the first connection? I also just remembered they were introduced in early September, for about 24 hours before I decided to wait a few more weeks. Not sure if they locked during that meeting, but should I change their official "start date" to that day? Sorry about all the questions, I'm just a nervous newbie. ;)

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Originally Posted by pythontricker

How long have they been in the same tub for?

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We totally cross-posted, LOL... but to answer your question, they've been introduced a total of 3 times now, for 2-3 days per meeting. I guess the official first meeting was on 9/1-ish, so it's been just over a month.

Not sure if this link will work (is it public?), but here's their iHerp breeding log: http://www.iherp.com/HerpTrack/Breed...ingRecord=1418

Ignore the 10/29/09 removal entry - I'm not a psychic, it was just a typo they won't let me edit. :D

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Originally Posted by Lolo76

Fyi, the lovebirds are still together, but seem to be done locking for the time being... I'll leave him there until tonight/tomorrow, just in case he has another burst of energy. :D

I read somewhere (Markus Jayne's site?) to look for about 5-6 good locks, before assuming the female is gravid... is that a common rule-of-thumb, and/or does it often happen with the first connection? I also just remembered they were introduced in early September, for about 24 hours before I decided to wait a few more weeks. Not sure if they locked during that meeting, but should I change their official "start date" to that day? Sorry about all the questions, I'm just a nervous newbie. ;)

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From what I understand, unlike humans, female BP's will ovulate (release eggs from the ovaries) only once for the entire breeding season. She will store sperm from mating in the weeks leading up to ovulation, then at the time of ovulation, she will release the eggs (follicles) from her ovaries where they meet the waiting sperm and get fertilized. I believe "gravid" implies that the female has ovulated.

So, they CAN become gravid from one lock. But as I said, it doesn't happen right when they are mating. It happens later, when the female ovulates and the eggs are fertilized. However, you want to pair them up often in hopes that she will store up lots of sperm and fertilize lots of eggs. I'm assuming the 5-6 locks is a rule of thumb if you are trying to ENSURE that a female is gravid.

And by the way, Lolo, you and I are in almost the exact same situation with our BP breeding. :D

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Originally Posted by icygirl

And by the way, Lolo, you and I are in almost the exact same situation with our BP breeding. :D

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Cool! When did you start introducing yours? It would be neat to have clutches around the same time... probably among the first of the season, since it seems most wait until late fall.

Oh, and thanks for the "simplistic" explanation of the ovulation process - that really helped. :gj: Next question, what determines when they ovulate? I didn't provide a cooling period, and never use artificial lighting... add that to our (Bay Area's) constantly cool weather, and you basically get one season all year. So will she know when it's time, and/or should I warm things up at some point?

It can still be months away from her ovulating and laying eggs. You really don't have to put them together more than once every few weeks. I'm even scaling back to once a month this season, because I feel any more than that isn't increasing any "odds" of the female becoming gravid (not pregnant).

My first season I started pairing in October, with multiple locks early on and up to ovulation and I didn't have eggs until May.

Again I am learning all this myself, but it seems to me that the female can experience one lock and be fine, or maybe 10. The female can choose to store the sperm, be it from the first hook-up...4rth etc etc, and then release and use it down the road. So as far as how much time do you have? I think that would be based of glowing, ovulations signs etc, all that good stuff of which there is tons of info on this forum.

so my best guess and someone can correct me if im wrong, she can be gravid from one lock up, just depends on whether she is open to storing or using the sperm.....not sure if this helped.....most start the countdown not on lockups but on the signs the female will go thru as she starts the process:)

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Originally Posted by icygirl

I'm assuming the 5-6 locks is a rule of thumb if you are trying to ENSURE that a female is gravid.

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I wish this was a sure thing, lol.
last year when my yellow belly male hooked up solid locks 20 or more times with a 3500 gram female, and she never did become gravid :mad:
I did get yellow belly babies, but not from her, she just used my tub space and laughed at me behind my back :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

You really don't have to put them together more than once every few weeks.

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I could've sworn I remembered you saying something like that!!

Then why does everyone in this thread give periods of 2-7 days that you give them before re-introducing them? I have been reading so many opinions on this that I honestly don't know what to think anymore :confused: What made you come to your conclusion about every few weeks, Robin, and why do others say differently? Not trying to put you on the spot here, just curious and very confused.

These pics might help you. :)

(I took all of these images, but the animals actually belong to Adam at 8ballpythons, they were taken during one of the shoots for Keeping Ball Pythons). Sorry for the massive water marks -- the red dot is the berry in my logo, not anything on the snakes.

The blood trails are apparently normal and are just what excited boys do apparently.

This is courting behavior:
http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/q...book/lock3.jpg

This is a lock:
http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/q...nbook/lock.jpg

and this is REALLY a lock:
http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/q...book/lock2.jpg

Cinderbird - those are some awesome pictures - thanks so much for sharing!

Can you point out which snakes are male and female in the first and second pics?

In the first pic, the caramel is the male, normal is the female

second pic, the female is on top and the male is on the bottom. From what i've seen this is usually the case, female on top, male's tail on bottom.

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Originally Posted by cinderbird

In the first pic, the caramel is the male, normal is the female

second pic, the female is on top and the male is on the bottom. From what i've seen this is usually the case, female on top, male's tail on bottom.

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Well here's something weird... my female did what the male is doing in your first pic.

In this pic she is the normal female wrapped around the top of the male...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...8/IMG_0626.jpg

...but in this lock, Luke's tail is wrapped around hers in a similar way to your second pic.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...8/IMG_0933.jpg

I have definite confirmation that Luke is a male, and they stayed like that (with their tails up and all!) for at least several hours when I was checking on them. So yeah, maybe she's just weird? Who knows :D

whatever floats their boat lol :P

nothing is definite with these guys.

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Originally Posted by cinderbird

whatever floats their boat lol :P

nothing is definite with these guys.

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Well I'm fairly certain about Luke being male. I bought him from Joe Compel, and he popped him in front of me. If he's a girl, well, he's definitely got some extra goods. :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by icygirl

I could've sworn I remembered you saying something like that!!

Then why does everyone in this thread give periods of 2-7 days that you give them before re-introducing them? I have been reading so many opinions on this that I honestly don't know what to think anymore :confused: What made you come to your conclusion about every few weeks, Robin, and why do others say differently? Not trying to put you on the spot here, just curious and very confused.

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More experienced breeders like Adam and Justin have shared with me that they also don't believe that more often is necessarily "productive" or increases your odds. In fact, if you get the chance, talk to those who have been doing this for years and years - most will say that once a month is probably more than sufficient.

As for everyone in that thread that you linked - no disrespect to any of them, but I don't know how long any of them have been breeding (not that I have been doing so long myself) - but my point is that the folks I've talked to who have been doing this for quite some time now, all seem to hold the same philosophy that anything more than once a month isn't necessarily necessary.

However, for someone new to breeding and until you start to learn your snakes' behaviors and subtle changes during breeding, then a 3 day on, 4 day off strategy won't hurt. Heck, that's what I did my first season.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I wish this was a sure thing, lol.
last year when my yellow belly male hooked up solid locks 20 or more times with a 3500 gram female, and she never did become gravid :mad:
I did get yellow belly babies, but not from her, she just used my tub space and laughed at me behind my back :P

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LOL... but that sucks for you. :( Mona is a proven breeder (with her last owner), so hopefully she'll take to it again! I am such an impatient person, this is going to be a loooooooong wait. :oops:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cinderbird

These pics might help you. :)

(I took all of these images, but the animals actually belong to Adam at 8ballpythons, they were taken during one of the shoots for Keeping Ball Pythons). Sorry for the massive water marks -- the red dot is the berry in my logo, not anything on the snakes.

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Great pics! The "really a lock" one is especially cool, although a little bit gross... not sure what's what exactly, LOL. :P

Quote:

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The blood trails are apparently normal and are just what excited boys do apparently.

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Yep... I found those all over the tub, both times I paired them last week.