Need everyones input!!

Ok so heres it is... Ok I bought a pair of Albino's back in march. I decided I had no use for the male and sold him on 6/3/09. Now at the time of the sale I did not know how to sex snakes. I was and am still new to this but have learned to pop since this sale. So I sold what was presented to me by the shipper as a male. So they either had them in the wrong bags or mis labeled them. Well found out yesterday that the "female" I wanted to keep was the one that was sold and shipped out. Yes I know it was my fault for not sexing a snake before selling it but I didn't know how at the time and just went off what the semi big breeder sent me! I was working on my popping technique yesterday and decided to pop my "female" bino and it popped a male and had sperm plugs! My stomach turned when I realized what had happened. I contact the buyer of the "male" bino and he confirmed that infact he has the female. But he paid for the male not the female. I never intented on selling my female and he said he was willing to trade me back but doesn't want the male that he originally paid for or he does but wants something else tossed in on it and he said he would add more cash. But the thing is I don't have anything else I am willing to get rid of. I am sort of stuck in the situation and want ppl's opinions. On wether or not I should have the right to my snake back and he gets the male he originally paid for or since I screwed up my loss. I talked to a few different ppl and have had different takes on this. I would be willing to either pay for shipping both ways since it was my mistake in the first placeor let him keep her for the price of an 08 female bino. So what do you guys think?????

He does NOT get to keep an animal he did NOT pay for.

He either Pays you more money, or sends the snake back with you paying BOTH ways.


If you ordered a dvd from Amazon, and they sent you a Flat Screen TV....do you get to keep the TV?!?!?! No, you dont.

Voted!

I'm not sure, I tend to disagree. You as the seller are responsible for making sure you send out the correct animal. It is several months later, this is not like you realized it two days later. If he wants to work something out with you, I think thats great, but...this much time later, I don't feel he is obligated to.

To go along with Patrick's analogy, even in that situation...after a certain amount of time had passed, they would have very little legal recourse to reclaim the flat screen tv.

I think it would be complete up to the buyer at this point. What ever he/she wants to do.
I know with credit cards you only have 60 days to challenge a charge. After that you have to pay it no matter what.
Trey

I'm going to agree with xscorpio on this one... If amazon accidentally sent you a flatscreen tv and you both thought it was a dvd until you both realized it wasn't sometime down the line, amazon would not tell you to send it back. The person who accidentally shipped it might be fired, and amazon would suck it up and move on. The seller is absolutely 100% responsible to make sure the product they send is the one the purchaser intends to purchase. If they erronously send the wrong one, and the purchaser wants to keep the one they sent, they are absolutely within their rights to do so.

However, it sounds like the guy who bought the snake is reasonable enough, and if you want your snake back you'd better find a way to make him happy, even if you have to take a bit of a loss. Depends how important the snake is to you I guess, but no, he has no obligation to just give you the snake back.

Speaking as a law student, for him to keep the item which is not the item he paid for, is illegal. Was there any contract? Are there any emails in which the two of you agreed to purchase and send the particular snake. Another person mentioned it had been several months. Unless it's been over a couple years, depending on the state, it's irrelevant. The statute of limitations doesn't run out for some times on items like this.

However, it sounds like the guy who bought the snake is reasonable enough, and if you want your snake back you'd better find a way to make him happy, even if you have to take a bit of a loss. Depends how important the snake is to you I guess, but no, he has no obligation to just give you the snake back.[/QUOTE]

If there was an agreement over a particular snake, the buyer does indeed have an obligation to give it back.

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Originally Posted by gknight

However, it sounds like the guy who bought the snake is reasonable enough, and if you want your snake back you'd better find a way to make him happy, even if you have to take a bit of a loss. Depends how important the snake is to you I guess, but no, he has no obligation to just give you the snake back.

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If there was an agreement over a particular snake, the buyer does indeed have an obligation to give it back.[/QUOTE]

I do tend to agree that this is my loss as the shipper for selling a snake that I wasn't 100% sure was male. But to answer your question the deal was made for an 08 male albino. And The buyer and I are in contact and he said he is happy either way but offered to send her back to me in place of not just the male he paid for but for something else ontop of the male. And would add cash to the trade back if it was more than what he paid I guess. So he is working with me to an extent. She was in my future plans which is why I wanted to sell the male and not the female. But things change and stuff happens! This is a learning experience for both me and him to say the least. And I have no expectations of the buyer to just wanna hand me back the snake after such a long time gap. I guess as long as he is happy with what he got male or female than thats what matters most even if I have lost a few hundred dollars! I bet I won't be making that mistake again anytime soon! LOL

they buyer wanted a male.. Explaine what happened have them shipp the snake back to you and you ship the male to thme.. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

they buyer wanted a male.. Explaine what happened have them shipp the snake back to you and you ship the male to thme.. Problem solved.

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I wish it were that easy. He seems to not want the male he originally paid for now.

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Originally Posted by BLong7211

I wish it were that easy. He seems to not want the male he originally paid for now.

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Offer to return his money in full and pay the shipping of the other animal.. other wise your pretty much stuck.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Offer to return his money in full and pay the shipping of the other animal.. other wise your pretty much stuck.

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Yep, I have my hands tied pretty much since I don't really have the cash on hand to just send back to him. So looks like I am just gonna have to bite the bullet on this one and make damn sure it never happens again! :colbert:

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Originally Posted by BLong7211

Yep, I have my hands tied pretty much since I don't really have the cash on hand to just send back to him. So looks like I am just gonna have to bite the bullet on this one and make damn sure it never happens again! :colbert:

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It's three shades of suckage no doubt but it happens..and you just have to roll with the punches..

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

It's three shades of suckage no doubt but it happens..and you just have to roll with the punches..

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Yes sir I know! It really does suck and when I found out and realized what I had done my stomach deff did flips! But I guess I will just have to either sell or trade him off since he is of no use to me now.

It does suck, but its your responsability to make sure that the snake you're selling is the one you and they buyer agreed on.

Very recently I sold 3 snakes I thought to be female, the buyer checked them and all were males. I refunded him and full and took the snakes back. This happened in a matter of days and was resolved with little issue.

Being that this is several months later, there is really nothing you can do. Had the mistake been caught earlier it would be a different story.

Verify your snakes before shipping!

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Originally Posted by Bleepr

It does suck, but its your responsability to make sure that the snake you're selling is the one you and they buyer agreed on.

Very recently I sold 3 snakes I thought to be female, the buyer checked them and all were males. I refunded him and full and took the snakes back. This happened in a matter of days and was resolved with little issue.

Being that this is several months later, there is really nothing you can do. Had the mistake been caught earlier it would be a different story.

Verify your snakes before shipping!

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I agree 100% and like I said in the OP I didn't know how to sex them at that time. Yes I could have tried to take them to the vets or tried to find someone that knew what they were doing. One there is not one person in my area that I knew even owned more than one snake much less numerous and deff none that knew how to sex them. And I never said it wasn't my fault, I should have knew better than to trust what a semi big breeder sent me and made sure. Live and learn is all I can say.

Live and learn. I know its not a mistake you'll be making again.

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Originally Posted by Bleepr

Live and learn. I know its not a mistake you'll be making again.

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Nope Deffinately Not!! LOL

Do what you want to do, but the law is on your side if you have documentation proving that he intended to purchase one animal and got the incorrect one.

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Originally Posted by gknight

Do what you want to do, but the law is on your side if you have documentation proving that he intended to purchase one animal and got the incorrect one.

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Are you familiar with all pertaining laws? City, county, state, federal? Verbal and oral contractual obligations and validity? What was implied, stated or misunderstood in this deal? Have you seen a TOS or contract? Do you have ALL the pertinent facts?

The fact is, student, you don't. And since you don't perhaps you should refrain from giving legal advice without the proper license to do so.

Isn't there some law against that?

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Originally Posted by gknight

Do what you want to do, but the law is on your side if you have documentation proving that he intended to purchase one animal and got the incorrect one.

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As I said before, this was my mistake and I am standing behind my customer satisfaction and biting the bullet so to speak. If he is happy with her then thats all I care about. My reputation and customer satisfaction mean more to me than making a big deal or taking someone to court or filing charges over what to begin with was in no way the customers fault! And deff not worth the bad name it may give me or him for what a few hundred dollar snake difference? Well as stated above as long as he is happy with what he got then thats all that counts. All I care about now is not letting this type of mix up ever happen again and learning from this experience and moving on.

+1....

This is in reference to Wilomns post

As it relates to one's previous post about my "advice", no, it's clearly not illegal. I clearly stated that I was a law student, not a lawyer. I also did not charge him for any such "advice". However, I did let him know that the rudimentary laws regarding such a transaction seem to favor him in this particular instance. I asked if there were any contracts or agreements that were given or written. Maybe you missed that part. It seems like you missed quite a bit in the posts. So, if you'd like to help in the situation or can show s statute that would dispute anything I've claimed, please do so. I'd love to see it and actually read the statute. However, I'm not sure that you've ever seen a set of codes much less read one. Try and actually give the OPer some info that he can find helpful instead of just trying to be a ****head.

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Originally Posted by gknight

As it relates to one's previous post about my "advice", no, it's clearly not illegal. I clearly stated that I was a law student, not a lawyer. I also did not charge him for any such "advice". However, I did let him know that the rudimentary laws regarding such a transaction seem to favor him in this particular instance. I asked if there were any contracts or agreements that were given or written. Maybe you missed that part. It seems like you missed quite a bit in the posts. So, if you'd like to help in the situation or can show s statute that would dispute anything I've claimed, please do so. I'd love to see it and actually read the statute. However, I'm not sure that you've ever seen a set of codes much less read one. Try and actually give the OPer some info that he can find helpful instead of just trying to be a ****head.

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Having actually seen others go down this road and having actually participated in the attempt to right this error, more than once, I know from first hand experience that if the buyer doesn't want to do the right thing, nothing can be done about it legally.

If your skin is this thin you'll be quite fun to watch when you actually get into court.

Both times.

Best of luck, you'll need it.

You should read more. Or at least listen. When reading your posts I'm reminded of Lincoln's famous saying, "Better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Please, do us all a favor and remember that in your future posts.

Now, now, kids, lets all be civil.

I'm no fancy law man, but having spent some time in retail I know first hand that the customer ultimately holds the upper hand in any kind of disagreement. It really doesn't matter what the law says, because unless BLong wants to actually follow through with legal intervention (which will be neither quick nor painless, and would probably end up costing him more in time, legal fees, and stress than to buy a new snake) it's not even a factor.

BLong, I commend you for taking this as a learning experience and holding your customer's satisfaction above all else. You may have taken a loss on this for now, but when someone asks your customer where he got that sweet albino female, you better believe he'll be passing your name along. Either that or he's a big jerk. In any case, cudos to you sir.

And, while I told myself just to keep quiet, it's more fun not to. gknight, trying to use "I'm a ______ student" to back up a claim is so rediculous it's rediculous. I am also a student, and as such I know exactly how little students know. That's like if someone said "Hey, now you just hang on here, I read most of a book about something that relates to this topic once..."

You would probably be better served to have just given the advice, without trying to make yourself sound like you know what you're talking about. Either that, or, this being the internet and no one being the wiser, lie and say you were a tenured law prof. who specialized in sales contracts. In any case, allow me to make a suggestion for when you are a full fledged, accredited lawyer. Try to avoid calling people ****heads in open court. The jury will probably take your argument more seriously if you don't use insults from grade 3.

Just a suggestion.

-Dr. Nick
PhD in Theoretical BioMolecular Astrophysics/ Dentistry
MA in Rhetorical Suggestionometry

And my suggestion to you Dr. Nick, would be to learn how to spell "ridiculous".

I can feel the testosterone in this thread. Ugh. Evolve.

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Originally Posted by gknight

And my suggestion to you Dr. Nick, would be to learn how to spell "ridiculous".

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Seriously?????

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When reading your posts I'm reminded of Lincoln's famous saying, "Better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Please, do us all a favor and remember that in your future posts.

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:rolleyes:

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BLong, I commend you for taking this as a learning experience and holding your customer's satisfaction above all else. You may have taken a loss on this for now, but when someone asks your customer where he got that sweet albino female, you better believe he'll be passing your name along. Either that or he's a big jerk. In any case, cudos to you sir.

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Thank you for the comment! I know I may be loosing out now but in the long run it may indeed help my soon to be up and running buisness thrive. I feel like such an a$$ for making a mistake like this but I made it and am dealing with it as best I can. As long as he is happy with her and my attempt to let him know of the mistake and my attempt to give him the oppurtunity to get the male that he paid for. Which he has told me via email that he is/was happy either way with what he got wether male or female. So to me thats all that mattered. I just wanted other ppl's takes on the situation and what they would do in this situation or what they felt was the "right thing" to do on my/his part.

BLong I feel for you buddy. You seem like a straight up honest guy and someone that I wouldn't hesitate to do business with in the future. I can't say the same for the other guy however... I did vote that you're SOL, but personally I would've done the right thing if I was the buyer and sent you you're female back. It's not right and seems like he's trying to extort you for more from an honest mistake.

Question for you... If this same buyer wanted to buy a snake off you later, would you sell it to them?

as a buyer i personally would just send it back and get the male i wanted.
as a seller i would ask if he would rather have the male or the female.

what this sounds to me like he bought the male and either changed his mind on the male or he just wanted $ due to being short funds.

either way you sent him the animal and if he says he wants to keep the female your pretty much SOL. the buyer is not responsible for the sellers mistakes. technically he could ask for his $ back. now to say he will exchange it for the male if you send him something else is pretty much saying he is a louse. i wouldnt sell that guy anything again.

As a seller, it would definitely suck. But what "I" would do if I realized a mistake and a buyer had not already contacted me is to contact them, tell them mistake and let THEM decide what they wanted to do - keep the female, or trade her back for the male (and I would not ask them to make up the difference).

Yes, it would be a loss to me, but it shows that you are a breeder who cares that your buyer gets what they wanted and that as soon as you found out the mistake, you contacted them. What "I" would want, IMHO, is irrelevant, because it was my mistake.

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Question for you... If this same buyer wanted to buy a snake off you later, would you sell it to them?

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Yes I would sell to him again. If I would not have made the mistake he wouldn't have had the grounds to say or do anything right?? It was my mistake not the buyers that he got a female instead of a male. As long as they take care of the snake properly and it is healthy and the buyer is happy with what he got I think thats all that matters. Yes I screwed up and did he benefit from it? Yeah he did to an extent. He got a female bino for the price of a male. But this mistake could have messed up his breeding plans as well. But I am just glad that I found out and relayed the information to him and he is happy either way with what he got male or female.

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Originally Posted by nixer

as a buyer i personally would just send it back and get the male i wanted.
as a seller i would ask if he would rather have the male or the female.

what this sounds to me like he bought the male and either changed his mind on the male or he just wanted $ due to being short funds.

either way you sent him the animal and if he says he wants to keep the female your pretty much SOL. the buyer is not responsible for the sellers mistakes. technically he could ask for his $ back. now to say he will exchange it for the male if you send him something else is pretty much saying he is a louse. i wouldnt sell that guy anything again.

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He said and I quote "Got anything else (besides a male bino) for a tradeback?" And I asked him like what and his response was "Nothing in particular, I finally got my collection where I wanted it. I could trade her back plus some cash if you have something higher end. Let me know what you could part with for the right deal."

I don't want anything taken out of context so that is the actual email messages cut and pasted. Without the names of course.

Sounds like a pretty reasonable and stand-up guy. To that point, so do you. I'm glad you've taken a customer-oriented and open-minded approach to the whole situation. I'm sure it will do nothing but reap you dividends in the future even if it is a minor setback today.

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Originally Posted by BLong7211

He said and I quote "Got anything else (besides a male bino) for a tradeback?" And I asked him like what and his response was "Nothing in particular, I finally got my collection where I wanted it. I could trade her back plus some cash if you have something higher end. Let me know what you could part with for the right deal."

I don't want anything taken out of context so that is the actual email messages cut and pasted. Without the names of course.

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in that context i will have to retract my statement

Thank you everyone for your input and feedback!!! It is greatly appreciated to know that atleast I am doing the "right" thing. And that ppl actually gave some pretty good responses and didn't start name calling and making either of us out to be good or bad guys. Mistakes happen and it is how you handle them that makes you, well you.