[Python disposition rating] Something to help the "little kids"...

As it is, if a newbie asks what pythons we'd recommend for them to keep based on disposition/"aggression" alone, we'd refer to them the ball python or an Antaresia python or even a Burm (IF they have the finances required...).

However, it is inevitable that they would be curious about the other python species because they "look" more appealing, suits their personality better, they're "up for the challenge", etc.

Based on experience, I have listed here a "disposition meter", from 1 - 5, 5 being the most docile, whereas pythons scoring a 1 would be "living chainsaws". I hope this will help the "newbies" in better selecting a python that is truly suitable for them.

Since I haven't kept/handled a LOT of python species, I would appreciate if other members would also contribute with their inputs :D

Anyhows, without further delay....

5
Ball pythons
Burmese pythons****

4

3
African Rock Python**

2
Green Tree Python***

1
Reticulated Python*


Need help on:

1) Python Curtus (Bloods/Short tailed pythons)
2) Morelia pythons (Carpets, Scrubs, etc.)
3) Liasis Pythons

NOTES:

1) These scores do NOT include species specific husbandry requirements (ie: Chondros need a branch to perch on, Burms aren't cheap to feed, etc.); I'm purely scoring them on their natural tendency to "bite first, ask later" attitudes.

2) *I've kept 4 retics in my life so far; only one of them would score a "6 out of 5" when it comes to docility, aka, can be picked up bare handed as long as you don't smell like food.

3) **I once obtained an Afrock male when he was 17 months old. "Feign bites", flighty impulses and head butts were very common during the first few months. Nevertheless, he was a VERY strong hisser but eventually, permitted me to pick him up barehanded. Later on, I handled an 8 month juvy (WC?) unassisted in a pet store who did hiss loudly but nevertheless, permitted me to handle him barehanded.

4) ***Never owned a GTP but when I asked to handle a GTP at a pet store, the store attendants were at first hesitant to assist me and their supervisor (reluctantly?) assisted me by wearing a pair of heavy leather gloves lifting him up from the branch. I never did see him strike but I could see the supervisor (who's no "noob" himself as he claimed) sweating profusely. Traumatic experience perhaps?

5) ****Never owned a burm but I believe I've handled enough Burms from different owners, stores and zoos to confirm their "docility". :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by retic720

Need help on:

1) Python Curtus (Bloods/Short tailed pythons)
2) Morelia pythons (Carpets, Scrubs, etc.)
3) Liasis Pythons

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1) From the research I have done, and the questions I've asked to those who have/had kept Bloods, Borneos, and Sumatrans, they seem like that can be docile depending on how much they are handled. In order from most docile to most aggressive:
1- Borneo Short Tail
2- Sumatran Short Tail
3- Blood python

Though, their personalities vary since all snakes are different, so that means you could have an aggressive Borneo but a sweet and docile Blood.

2) From my research done on the Carpet pythons, it really varies between the snakes. From what I have read, the JCPs can be the nippy ones out of all the other Carpets, but they do grow out of it over a period of time, but also working with them would help by handling them to help them get used to human contact. Though, it seems that the larger Carpets are more docile, such as Bredlis and Coastals.

I hear that GTPs and ETBs can be fiesty, and should not always be handled. I can see why because their teeth are just massive and really sharp, and you would most likely need stitches if you got bit. They are more of a display animal, but I bet there are some pretty docile GTPs and ETBs out there.

3) I am not to familiar with many Liasis pythons, but I do know that the Stimson's python falls under that category. I'm not sure if Spotted and Children's pythons fall under that category either, but I'll just tell you what I have researched on these snakes. I've heard the three make wonderful starter snakes, and do stay at a pretty decent size if someone was worried about the length. I've heard pretty good things about them, and I wouldn't mind tell a beginner-herper about those species.

Really, I think people mention those often-seen snakes (Ball pythons, Kenyan Sand boas, Rosy boas, Burmese pythons, etc.) is because you can pretty much find them anywhere and as babies they aren't even that much money plus their care & temperament is pretty good. I always mention the Ball python to a starter, just because I don't regret keeping them and they make a WONDERFUL starter snake for anyone who would be interested in keeping pythons. Ball pythons, for me, are the door way to finding out other species of pythons and working your way up to the ones who are more fiesty.

Here's how I would rate the snakes I listed:

Borneo Short Tail pythons- 4
Sumatran Short Tail pythons- 4
Blood pythons- 3
JCPs- 4
Bredlis- 5
Coastals- 5
Jags- 4 or 5
Green Tree pythons- 2
Emerald Tree boas- 2
Stimson's pythons- 5
Children's pythons- 5
Spotted pythons- 5

Also just looked up some more Liasis pythons, and here is my rating on them:
White Lipped pythons- 3
Woma pythons(Not sure if they are, but oh well)- 5
Black Headed pythons (Not sure if they are)- 4

I think with more captive bred snakes being produced, it more depends on the snake individual, i mean you guys are putting GTPs in the bottom, but my GTP was by far the tamest snake i owned, i have a ball python that is very easily aggrivated also. and i have a ATB that is only 2 months old that bites now if i make a wrong move, but im sure in a couple months will be fine.

I find snakes bitting has more to do with how a snake was raised.

and Jags are not a different type of carpet, they are a morph that orginated in coastals and has been outcrossed to other locals. but pure jags are coastals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

1) From the research I have done, and the questions I've asked to those who have/had kept Bloods, Borneos, and Sumatrans, they seem like that can be docile depending on how much they are handled. In order from most docile to most aggressive:
1- Borneo Short Tail
2- Sumatran Short Tail
3- Blood python

Though, their personalities vary since all snakes are different, so that means you could have an aggressive Borneo but a sweet and docile Blood.

2) From my research done on the Carpet pythons, it really varies between the snakes. From what I have read, the JCPs can be the nippy ones out of all the other Carpets, but they do grow out of it over a period of time, but also working with them would help by handling them to help them get used to human contact. Though, it seems that the larger Carpets are more docile, such as Bredlis and Coastals.

I hear that GTPs and ETBs can be fiesty, and should not always be handled. I can see why because their teeth are just massive and really sharp, and you would most likely need stitches if you got bit. They are more of a display animal, but I bet there are some pretty docile GTPs and ETBs out there.

3) I am not to familiar with many Liasis pythons, but I do know that the Stimson's python falls under that category. I'm not sure if Spotted and Children's pythons fall under that category either, but I'll just tell you what I have researched on these snakes. I've heard the three make wonderful starter snakes, and do stay at a pretty decent size if someone was worried about the length. I've heard pretty good things about them, and I wouldn't mind tell a beginner-herper about those species.

Really, I think people mention those often-seen snakes (Ball pythons, Kenyan Sand boas, Rosy boas, Burmese pythons, etc.) is because you can pretty much find them anywhere and as babies they aren't even that much money plus their care & temperament is pretty good. I always mention the Ball python to a starter, just because I don't regret keeping them and they make a WONDERFUL starter snake for anyone who would be interested in keeping pythons. Ball pythons, for me, are the door way to finding out other species of pythons and working your way up to the ones who are more fiesty.

Here's how I would rate the snakes I listed:

Borneo Short Tail pythons- 4
Sumatran Short Tail pythons- 4
Blood pythons- 3
JCPs- 4
Bredlis- 5
Coastals- 5
Jags- 4 or 5
Green Tree pythons- 2
Emerald Tree boas- 2
Stimson's pythons- 5
Children's pythons- 5
Spotted pythons- 5

Also just looked up some more Liasis pythons, and here is my rating on them:
White Lipped pythons- 3
Woma pythons(Not sure if they are, but oh well)- 5
Black Headed pythons (Not sure if they are)- 4

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Shouldn't we be rating animals that we've owned?

Seriously, what's the point of going through this exercise if all we're going to do is regurgitate something you read?

BTW:

- Stimsons, Childrens, Anthills and Spotteds are Antaresia.

- Womas and Blackheads are Aspidites.

- Whitelips are Leiopython.

Liasis are:

- Fuscus

- Olivaceous

- Barroni

- Macklotti

- Savuensis

I kinda disagree with the retic statement. I've never kept 'tics personally, but I handled several of Danny's (Denial) and his were the sweetest things, even the 6 ft. purple albino female. They never once struck and were completely calm the whole time. But I've never kept them, so I don't know for sure...?

I don't really think a scale like this can really be done objectively....if anything it's just going to promote bad stereotypes such as 'I will never get bit if I by a ball-python' or 'I will never keep a blood python because they are devils.'

I think their's just too much variability in personality and the way keepers handle/treat their animals for there to be much validity to that kind of rank system. However for broad generalizations....

Retics are by no meens a beginer snake. The biggest reason is peoples lack of husbandry skills, respect for the animal, and common sense. On the same hand i do not believe retics to be "viscious" either. They seem to get there bad name from people who have never owned one or bought one from a pet shop with no knowledge of the snake and feared it.

It is hard to rate any snake because the are always exceptions. I have owned boas and burms that were unbelievabley docile. I also owned corns and balls that were very defensive and would strike at any moving object.

i think the better way to rate this would to rate it on the amount of agressive behavior portraid or the higher chance of aggression.

There are some ball pythons out there that are "living chain saws", and I'm sure some retics that love to cuddle.

An example would be a Emerald tree boa, yea people have proven that they can be docile, but aren't they easily agitated? Wouldn't that shoot it up to the top of the list? Their fangs are also another problem.


Iono, just throwing it out there. I agree with the other post, this should be pure user experience, not what you have read.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spitfireashlea

An example would be a Emerald tree boa, yea people have proven that they can be docile, but aren't they easily agitated? Wouldn't that shoot it up to the top of the list? Their fangs are also another problem.

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theres not alot of captive bred ETB compared to other snakes. I've see more imported in real life than captive bred, i havn't owned them, but i've been around alot of them and i can honestly say ALL of the wild caught ETB i've been around were devils and ALL of the captive bred ETB i've been around have been just fine.

I still say it has more to do with how their raised.

I mean compare this to dogs. is a pit bull going to be more likly to bite you than a lab.... depends how it was raised, i've never met anything but sweetheart pit bulls, but they have the same sterotype as the ETBs and GTPs

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spitfireashlea

i think the better way to rate this would to rate it on the amount of agressive behavior portraid or the higher chance of aggression.

There are some ball pythons out there that are "living chain saws", and I'm sure some retics that love to cuddle.

An example would be a Emerald tree boa, yea people have proven that they can be docile, but aren't they easily agitated? Wouldn't that shoot it up to the top of the list? Their fangs are also another problem.


Iono, just throwing it out there. I agree with the other post, this should be pure user experience, not what you have read.

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My ETB never once struck at me while she was in my custody before I sold her. So around like 2 years. She was always good and I held her around 3 times a week. =D Maybe I was just lucky?

I agree with some of the above posters, its all about how the animal is raised. I have a retic who I got as a hatchling, he is the sweetest snake I own. I also adopted a woma python from a girl who rarely handled him, and while this species is supposed to be a very docile one, he strikes at me and bites me any chance he gets. I agree that these species are not beginner snakes by any means, but I do not think we should completely rate the scale on docility, because it varies from animal to animal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaramire

I agree with some of the above posters, its all about how the animal is raised. I have a retic who I got as a hatchling, he is the sweetest snake I own. I also adopted a woma python from a girl who rarely handled him, and while this species is supposed to be a very docile one, he strikes at me and bites me any chance he gets. I agree that these species are not beginner snakes by any means, but I do not think we should completely rate the scale on docility, because it varies from animal to animal.

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I have to agree here ! I have a red tail that i even hate trying to open his tub no matter what time of day or night he wants to eat me :( I have a few female balls that must hate me to. And then the blood who is one of the snakes that has never shown any sign of wanting to bite at all :) I think its all on the snake its kinda like us we all have bad days sometimes :) some more then others ----- :rolleye2:

What about a rating system based on beginner, intermediate, expert

I mean easily venomous and snakes that require 2 people to "be safe" should be expert. doesn't mean they bite or are aggressive at all, their just simply not beginner snakes.

GTP and ETB i would say intermediate, they require more specific care, and is it safe to say less forgiving of husbandary mistakes than other snakes in general.

Mayb some of the bigger carpets could be put as intermediate just due to their size. but most of them beginner snakes imo

and easily ball pythons, corns, milks, blah blah blah... beginners

better system maybe?

I agree too.. That it should be more based on level of skill and husbandry needs. I owned the worlds most docile Burm years ago which i took to a childrens nature center regularly to educate kids that were there on field trips. I had a friend who owned a Burm that was straight from the depths of you know where. She was out to get you no matter what. On the other hand, that same friend owned a green anaconda which was as docile as my Burm. At 12 Ft that snake was still a big baby and never once struck. Not even at feeding time. She would take the prey slowly from your hand. It was strange.

Ive been bitten by sand boas which are supposed to be docile. Ive never met a mean blood python. I would say childrens pythons are docile but any small snake or baby is generally more likely to bite than one of the same species at an older age. (notice i said generally)

Its all in the way the snake is raised, how often it is handled and allowed to relax while being held, and the natural personality of that particular snake. Not the species or type.

I have a SD retic and he is by no means aggressive. Though he has the retic feeding response, he is completely fine to be handled. He has only struck at me during feedings and i dont blame the snake for that. Ive not owned any other retics so i cant really decide. Just putting my experience in. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

1) From the research I have done, and the questions I've asked to those who have/had kept Bloods, Borneos, and Sumatrans, they seem like that can be docile depending on how much they are handled. In order from most docile to most aggressive:
1- Borneo Short Tail
2- Sumatran Short Tail
3- Blood python

Though, their personalities vary since all snakes are different, so that means you could have an aggressive Borneo but a sweet and docile Blood.

2) From my research done on the Carpet pythons, it really varies between the snakes. From what I have read, the JCPs can be the nippy ones out of all the other Carpets, but they do grow out of it over a period of time, but also working with them would help by handling them to help them get used to human contact. Though, it seems that the larger Carpets are more docile, such as Bredlis and Coastals.

I hear that GTPs and ETBs can be fiesty, and should not always be handled. I can see why because their teeth are just massive and really sharp, and you would most likely need stitches if you got bit. They are more of a display animal, but I bet there are some pretty docile GTPs and ETBs out there.

3) I am not to familiar with many Liasis pythons, but I do know that the Stimson's python falls under that category. I'm not sure if Spotted and Children's pythons fall under that category either, but I'll just tell you what I have researched on these snakes. I've heard the three make wonderful starter snakes, and do stay at a pretty decent size if someone was worried about the length. I've heard pretty good things about them, and I wouldn't mind tell a beginner-herper about those species.

Really, I think people mention those often-seen snakes (Ball pythons, Kenyan Sand boas, Rosy boas, Burmese pythons, etc.) is because you can pretty much find them anywhere and as babies they aren't even that much money plus their care & temperament is pretty good. I always mention the Ball python to a starter, just because I don't regret keeping them and they make a WONDERFUL starter snake for anyone who would be interested in keeping pythons. Ball pythons, for me, are the door way to finding out other species of pythons and working your way up to the ones who are more fiesty.

Here's how I would rate the snakes I listed:

Borneo Short Tail pythons- 4
Sumatran Short Tail pythons- 4
Blood pythons- 3
JCPs- 4
Bredlis- 5
Coastals- 5
Jags- 4 or 5
Green Tree pythons- 2
Emerald Tree boas- 2
Stimson's pythons- 5
Children's pythons- 5
Spotted pythons- 5

Also just looked up some more Liasis pythons, and here is my rating on them:
White Lipped pythons- 3
Woma pythons(Not sure if they are, but oh well)- 5
Black Headed pythons (Not sure if they are)- 4

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I don'y know if anyone has pointed this out but if you talking about jag carpets it is a morph not a snake and any all snakes can be aggressive be prepared for an aggressive one no matter what you get i have held bps more aggressive than my blood python.

This isn't a useless exercise--there are trends in various species. Some species are more prone to docility, and some are more prone to aggressiveness. The exceptions don't make a scale pointless.

I'm curious as to how Irian Jaya carpets score. :)

I have 40 ball pythons, and not one of them is aggressive. I did have an aggressive female once, but sold her off (with full disclosure).

Hatchling temperament should also be discounted. The baby house snakes I had were the nippiest little things on the face of the earth, but most adult house snakes are docile sweethearts that make great ambassador animals. Many baby balls are nippy, and some are even downright nasty, but most grow out of it.

Pueblan milk snakes are flighty, musking, and occasionally biting nervous little things that barely calm down with age.

Sinaloan milks can usually be tamed and are as calm as corn snakes.

I would put the GTPs and ETBs in the expert category because their environmental quirks are more important than how much help you might need to keep one. They aren't easy to keep, and you do need to know what you're doing.
I understand they can be tamed down if you work with them, just like other species--the problem is a hair trigger response to breath in their face (if you exhale on them, they may bite you in the face), and super long teeth that hurt really bad. Keeping those factors in mind would be important if you were going to handle one--keep the animal away from your face, even if it's tame. ^_^

I pretty much skimmed threw and picked out post with gtps in them. This stereotype is pretty harsh, but unfortunately true to a degree. I have some that are just as sweet as you could ever ask for. I got a hatchling in over a year ago and it has never tried to bite me. I pick her out any time of the day or night and she's fine. Another one in the shipment is pretty much satan inside of the cage. Once she is out she's quite friendly. Biaks have a bad wrap for being mean, and many of them are. I think with some snakes it's down to individual personality. Chondros can only be tamed so much, they pretty much live on instinct. Most emeralds are actually quite easy to handle. Many people looking for a chondro or ETB get an emerald after messing with both. Granted, we are talking about CBB in both cases. I kept a WC ETB for a friend, it was a lot more calm than I expected, but I rarely held it and was super slow moving.


Husbandry needs move this into the expert category IMO. Humidity and heat gradient windows are pretty small with these guys. Trying not to hold it often to reduce stress is another issue. It's not your normal python.

For the record GTPs do not have crazy huge teeth. Morelia genus has some big teeth. A chondro and a carpet of the same size have the same bite. This means since chondros max out around 4 to 5 feet that a 7 foot carpet has a much worse bite. Scrubs are also in this family, and a different ball game when it comes to chompers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

This isn't a useless exercise--there are trends in various species. Some species are more prone to docility, and some are more prone to aggressiveness. The exceptions don't make a scale pointless.

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and i bet you that trend goes around the same line as the amount of CB vs WC. Hatchling temperment is discounted? now its defently based on how they were raised.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

I would put the GTPs and ETBs in the expert category because their environmental quirks are more important than how much help you might need to keep one. They aren't easy to keep, and you do need to know what you're doing.
I understand they can be tamed down if you work with them, just like other species--the problem is a hair trigger response to breath in their face (if you exhale on them, they may bite you in the face), and super long teeth that hurt really bad. Keeping those factors in mind would be important if you were going to handle one--keep the animal away from your face, even if it's tame. ^_^

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you need to know what your doing with any snake. GTP are not hard to keep, their requirments are more specfic that other snakes, but they acheived easily. I have no idea where your getting your information from about gtps. am i allowed to link to other forums? i can give you a link to a forum just for gtps.

any snake can bite you in the face.... and i've never meet a gtp that had a response to bite if you breath on it, that already didn't want to bite you. heres a old video of my gtp. she was the snake i would give to my little cusins to play with because i know there was nothing they could do to make her bite.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v5...Picture012.flv

excuse the horrible video itself and the ugly dude in it, but i know a few more gtps that are the same way. and if you visit the gtp forum, you'll see as long as the snake just arn't kept to breed, there are way more tame GTPs than aggressive ones.

mayb you delt with a few aggressive gtps, but hell i've delt with a few aggressive corn snakes and alot of aggressive ball pythons. the most doctile snake species there is, i see the trend in snake behavior in how it was raised, not what kind it is. being CB vs WC seems to make a big difference also, because WC grew up in the wild obviously

I dont believe you can rate the disposition of a certain species for the simple fact not every animal has the same personality. Certain animals have gotten bad reps and for the most part it was started becuase of wild caught imports. And I would be pissy if I was taken out of my home and shipped across the world but since there have been more and more captive breedings of retics,rocks, and anacondas the bad rep has slowly been changing and more people are starting to relize that they can be just as calm as any snake.
The thing is that with any snake you can usually get them to calm down by simple handling them. And another thing about disposition is even if you have a "tame" snake that doesnt mean that snake is never going to have a bad day and tag you.
Point being most snakes will calm down with handling and captive breeding. Ive seen people handle calm venomous snakes. I wouldnt recommend it. Theres a HUGE difference in a c.b.b baby and a W.C. adult. Ive heard horror stories of how bad the first w.c. retics were when they got here lol.