Help with morelia viridis morph identification

Hello,

The ball python community seems to be further advanced in genetic and morph determination than that of the chondro folks. With this I'm seeking opinions of a particular snake. The snake is said to be an offpsring from a wild caught normal looking gravid wild type(Wamena). Normal would be a darker green look. The snake in question hatched as red followed through to color change to loose the juvenile color and leave a ghost looking snake lacking much of the yellow and blue which would typically make a green snake.


Your opinions are valued and if you have a ball python morph which might be similar thoughts would be much appreciated.


This is the snake in question, and as snake apeared after color change from red hatchling, 3 years old. The snake is a few years older now and has shifted some colors here and there, but keeps a similar look.
http://members.cox.net/oimabzb/Pictu...mall%20res.JPG

This should probably be in the Chondro section of the forum.

My wife definitely wants a GTP. And that one is sexy. :gj:

Hmm I know nothing about that snakes morphs, maybe someone else will come along with more info. It is common for that kind of snake to change color? I don't know of any ball python morphs that change color other than darken or lighten slightly.

There is a section on this forum for that kind of snake. It's a GTP right?

Here's a thread where someone is asking what the snake will look like
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...d.php?t=102410

It's under "morelia" here on the forums. I'm not sure how many people here on bpnet own that sort of snake so I don't know how quickly you will get an answer.

Welcome to the site!

I moved it to the Morelia forum for you so that you may get faster answers. That's a crazy cool looking snake, but I've never seen anything like it.

I will say, that is wone WHACKY looking GTP. I've seen pics of them in all different kinds of adult colors, but never seen one like that, and certainly never seen a wamena like that.

It wouldn't surprise me if there's something genetic going on, good luck proving it out! :gj:

very nice!

Almost looks like a paradox of some sort.

Greg,

this is one of my favorite GTP! im not sure what you are asking. are you asking what the genetics of the trait may be? in this case, try and breed one of the offspring back to her. if it is a simple recessive, then it may show up again. you may pull you hair out waiting the 3 years for the change but it may be possible.

but you are a seasoned MVF'er!! you should know that it is never that easy with this species!! from what i understand and from what ive been told, GTP color genes are not as simple as ball python genes. they are multi genes, if that makes sense. kinda like hair and eye color.

did you get any off the offspring from her last breeding?

Thank you for the input folks. It is appreciated.

I was also hopeful my question could be directed toward ball python folks. I figured they would have an opinoin seperate from the green tree python community and in that forum it would have more exposure.

For example hypomelanistic/Ghost given the reduction of melanophores and/or axanthic given the lack of yellow. There's just not much talk about these things in chondros and I figured some solid experience in melanophores and xanthophore genetics from the ball python guys would be useful.

I do hope it's possible to work on proving out the condition at any case. It would be interesting to find a recessive condition in a chondro.

It does look like some kind of weird Hypo- In boa constrictors the Hypo gene still tends to leave a lot of black/darker coloring near the head as well.

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Originally Posted by LizardofOzz

It does look like some kind of weird Hypo- In boa constrictors the Hypo gene still tends to leave a lot of black/darker coloring near the head as well.

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Is this typically a recessive condition?

Hypomelanism is a recessive trait in Balls, Boas and Corns. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

Hypomelanism is a recessive trait in Balls, Boas and Corns. :gj:

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Actually I think the hypo gene in boas is a codom gene. There is a super form. The Super Hypo.

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

Actually I think the hypo gene in boas is a codom gene. There is a super form. The Super Hypo.

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Yeah it is.

Check with Rico Walder of Signal Herp - he had one similar to this on his site for years - it's called snow cone or lemon ice or some designer name......

http://www.signalherp.com/Snow%20Cone.htm

same snake lol, even says greg owns it on the website :P

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

http://www.signalherp.com/Snow%20Cone.htm

same snake lol, even says greg owns it on the website :P

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True, ture. Rico has one offspring from the animal in question which looks to be green now. We did a breeding loan. It would be fantastic if that was a het for the condition. We'll see in time I'm sure.

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Originally Posted by greg schroeder

True, ture. Rico has one offspring from the animal in question which looks to be green now. We did a breeding loan. It would be fantastic if that was a het for the condition. We'll see in time I'm sure.

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Have you tried to breed any the snow cone's offspring back to it?

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Have you tried to breed any the snow cone's offspring back to it?

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I believe there is only one surviving offspring, and it may not even be a male.

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

Have you tried to breed any the snow cone's offspring back to it?

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It is the case that only one offspring from Snow Cone exisits. Rico has that animal. I'm not sure if it is a male to breed back into my female.

I only know of one other female green tree python which had a similar condition to Snow Cone at initial color change. That snake went through the same initial lack of color at color change apearing very light and ghost like. After bred once that snake turned blue. This snake is named Dream and has many offspring out there.

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Originally Posted by greg schroeder

This snake is named Dream and has many offspring out there.

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oh wow I had no idea Dream looked anything like yours at any point in time, that's pretty darn interesting..

The morelia color change is such an interesting event, I'm actually kind of surprised we don't see more visual mutations associated with whatever genes control it..

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

I'm actually kind of surprised we don't see more visual mutations associated with whatever genes control it..

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I think that's the problem. The green change is so strong is makes unusual morphs very hard. Greg, Breeding with a het albino might get some of the crazy genes out. However, all the recessive mutations might not be a good combination. Just a small thought.

On a personal note, I'm a huge fan of snow cone. When I visited Rico late last year I was disappointed to see she wasn't there. It's a snake I would love to see in person.

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Originally Posted by DavidG

I think that's the problem. The green change is so strong is makes unusual morphs very hard. Greg, Breeding with a het albino might get some of the crazy genes out. However, all the recessive mutations might not be a good combination. Just a small thought.

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Have any pictures of an Albino GTP?

http://www.kingsnake.com/salceies/wa...04b800x600.jpg

Stole it from Damon using a google search. I do not believe this is Floyd, the original produced by trooper. The eyes are the biggest give away compared to a canary.

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Originally Posted by DavidG

http://www.kingsnake.com/salceies/wa...04b800x600.jpg

Stole it from Damon using a google search. I do not believe this is Floyd, the original produced by trooper. The eyes are the biggest give away compared to a canary.

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It looks awesome! What cross was used for that do you know?

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

It looks awesome! What cross was used for that do you know?

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here is the link to floyd's page: http://www.kingsnake.com/salceies/Floyd.htm

greg, tell Rico to sex that beast!! that would be the best pairing to try and prove this out.

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Originally Posted by Lucas339

here is the link to floyd's page: http://www.kingsnake.com/salceies/Floyd.htm

greg, tell Rico to sex that beast!! that would be the best pairing to try and prove this out.

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Female
http://signalherp.com/images/06061gweb.jpg
link to the only surviving baby Rico produced from her. Maybe if it had been a maroon neo to survive? Defiantly would end the debate on the subject of red over yellow neos.

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Originally Posted by Lucas339

here is the link to floyd's page: http://www.kingsnake.com/salceies/Floyd.htm

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So the history ended with 2005.... Have there been any further breeding projects with Floyd?