Why don't you see more ...

... Black-eyed lucies?

I mean, I know there are 3-4 morphs that can make blue-eyed lucies as opposed to the 1-2 that can make black ELs. Still, though -- I've been seeing fires in the same approximate price range as butters and lessers this year, and I feel like I've seen plenty of blue ELs for sale and in "brag posts," but relatively few black ELs.

Do y'all think this is just because the fire/black ELs are a bit newer? ... Or is there something about black ELs that I don't know about (less healthy than blue ELs, or something)?

This is just my personal opinion, but I would prefer a snake with blue eyes over black any day. Perhaps that's why more people make blueELs rather than blackELs. Personal appeal? :confused:

People may be more attracted to the Blue-eyed base morphs compared to the Black-eyed base morphs perhaps.

Personally I love them, but I think it's b/c most of the morphs that make blue eyed lucys are more 'flashy' than the fires. If you show someone a lesser and a fire, if they don't know much about BP morphs, they can still tell there is something different about a lesser.

It's a goal of mine to eventually produce a BlackEL..... and his name will be Ayame :D

I'd love to own either or both since they are just truly beautiful!

also its easy to make an all white Blue eyed, just don't use mojave and your pretty much set. black eyes are a little harder to have all white.

I also think that many people prefer the looks of Butters and Lessers vs. Fires. The end results can be great with all of them, but I personally love Lessers and Butters much more than Fires. Het Russos and Fires don't have the visual appeal to many.

I'm also seeing a trend where Fires are being used as a clean-up morph as in the Firefly.

I agree with Tim but the other main reason is there are several combos that can make a blue eyed leucy and only one combo that make a black eyed one so odds are higher for blue.

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

I agree with Tim but the other main reason is there are several combos that can make a blue eyed leucy and only one combo that make a black eyed one so odds are higher for blue.

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Maybe more than 1 now! ;)

I love Black Eyed Lucies, infact I prefer them over Blues. But I believe it's because Black Eyed Lucies are a "Dead End" combo. Basically after you've made a Black Eyed Lucy you would only be able to breed that animal to other snakes as a Super. Now this may not seem like a bad thing but if you bred a Firefly to a Firefly and got a BLKEL then there is no way you would know if that animal is a Pastel BLKEL or even a Super Pastel BLKEL without breeding it out, which requires time, money, and most importantly: patience.

I personally have no issue with that but I'm sure there are people that see that as more trouble than it's worth.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Now this may not seem like a bad thing but if you bred a Firefly to a Firefly and got a BLKEL then there is no way you would know if that animal is a Pastel BLKEL or even a Super Pastel BLKEL without breeding it out, which requires time, money, and most importantly: patience.

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... Or maybe that would be a green-eyed lucy ... O.o (How cool would that be?)

Thanks for the replies, all. I wonder if maybe they'll start to become more common in the next few years ... I like them a lot, at least as much as the blue ELs.

I will be working in the next few years at getting both. I prefer the Blk, but my OL brefers the Blu. I will be working woth MojavexMojave, and FirexFire. The Blk will take a little longer as I do not even have one yet, and I already have 2 Mojave growing like weeds as we speak.

I think Mojaves have been affordable for a longer period of time, when compared to Fires. I would say more people have had a chance to buy and let a female Mojave mature, vs. those that have Fire females or Sulfur females.

By a show of hands, who has Mojaves, and who has a Het Black Eyed Lucy? Which did you buy first, do you have a female? I would bet more people bought Mojaves or Lessers before Het Black Eyed Lucies, and I would bet fewer people have female ADULT Sulfurs or Fires.

Plus, you can combine the Het Blue Eyed Lucies, have a Mojave, and a Lesser, one male and one female. That is more fun than buying a male and female of the same morph.

Dave

I have a 09 Male Fire and a '09 Female Mojave, I got them only a month apart, that said I also have a '07 Lesser Male.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Maybe more than 1 now! ;)

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thought sulfur was proven? so it'd be 2

I think the deciding factor for me is that I love the really clean white snakes, but if I have to get color on one, I'd much rather have the purple blushing of the Blue-Eyeds than that god-awful yellow spotting that shows up on some of the Black-Eyeds.

somebody should play around with the lucy's and do black to blue and make a gray eyed!! Or one black eye one blue eye! That could look pretty exotic. Anyone tried fire lesser x fire lesser? what if that worked.... haha just a random thought

Eric did Sulfur Mojave x Sulfur Mojave and got blue and black eyed Lucies. The Lucies he produced, if I remember correctly, were Blue eyed, Black Eyed with splotches, and clean black eyed. So, the black eyed could be Mojave black eyed, and the blue eyed, could be Sulfur Blue eyed....

Dave

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Originally Posted by EmberBall

I think Mojaves have been affordable for a longer period of time, when compared to Fires. I would say more people have had a chance to buy and let a female Mojave mature, vs. those that have Fire females or Sulfur females.

By a show of hands, who has Mojaves, and who has a Het Black Eyed Lucy? Which did you buy first, do you have a female? I would bet more people bought Mojaves or Lessers before Het Black Eyed Lucies, and I would bet fewer people have female ADULT Sulfurs or Fires.

Plus, you can combine the Het Blue Eyed Lucies, have a Mojave, and a Lesser, one male and one female. That is more fun than buying a male and female of the same morph.

Dave

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I totally agree with the affordability of making blue eyed as opposed to making black eyeds. It is only recently that fire females are affordable for most. I can't wait to breed my female this year and get some black eyeds.(fingers crossed)

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Originally Posted by MissMowgli

I think the deciding factor for me is that I love the really clean white snakes, but if I have to get color on one, I'd much rather have the purple blushing of the Blue-Eyeds than that god-awful yellow spotting that shows up on some of the Black-Eyeds.

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Do the homozygous fire black ELs sometimes have that yellow spotting? I'm not a big fan of that either, but for some reason I thought it only showed up on the sulfer stuff ...? All of the pictures of homozygous fires I've seen makes them look super-duper clean.

Cause there have been more Lesser and Mojave around than Fire when both were proved out to create BEL. So more people were able to produce these.

Also Fire are a nice morph, but compared to a lesser, people will want lessers. Fire looks like high gold yellow as babies, and when they grow they get better. Lessers looks like something totally different than a normal, and when they grow they also look better IMO.

But Black Eyed Lucys are a needed morph, just for the fact that you can breed anything to eat and it will be Fires. Breed that BEL to a Super Pastel and you have 100% FireFlies, who wouldn't want something like that ? :)

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Originally Posted by Watever

Cause there have been more Lesser and Mojave around than Fire when both were proved out to create BEL. So more people were able to produce these.

Also Fire are a nice morph, but compared to a lesser, people will want lessers. Fire looks like high gold yellow as babies, and when they grow they get better. Lessers looks like something totally different than a normal, and when they grow they also look better IMO.

But Black Eyed Lucys are a needed morph, just for the fact that you can breed anything to eat and it will be Fires. Breed that BEL to a Super Pastel and you have 100% FireFlies, who wouldn't want something like that ? :)

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people who would rather breed thier blue eyed and make 100% lesser pastels :) lol, its all personal preference i guess but i do like lessers better. tho one day i would like to see a firefly enchi just to see all 3 clean up morphs in one snake.

Do you think there may be an aspect to the fact that fires are an excellant highlighter morph and may be looked at more for their use along that line, instead of putting them together? I have blue eyes blonde hair so would be partial to the blue eyed luecistics lol.......but would take a black eyed anyday and plan on breeding my female fire with the male fire when she is ready:)

I think there maybe a component too that you can make bel's with a mojave pair which at times can be purchased in pair for the cost of a fire, butter, lesser? Just thoughts....

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/a...lmorphs108.jpg

Because with fires you can get this and pure whites.

While I see what you are saying Dave, I think people would argue that Steve's Paradox Super Mojave is just as nice as your blotched Black Eyed Lucy.

I do agree, that with the Black Eyed Lucy, you have more to "look foreward to" when the clutch is hatching. Am I going to get a clean lucy, am I going to get one that is blotchy, if I get a blotchy one, is it going to be ugly, or kick @$$?

Dave

Dave, how is your girl looking lately? I love her, can't wait to see her when she's bigger.