Will Liasis ever take off?

Other than a pair of Savus a couple of weeks ago, I haven't even seen any Liasis at shows lately. With the lack of crazy pattern and color morphs, do you think this genus will ever become mainstream?

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Originally Posted by TrpnBils

Other than a pair of Savus a couple of weeks ago, I haven't even seen any Liasis at shows lately. With the lack of crazy pattern and color morphs, do you think this genus will ever become mainstream?

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Define mainstream.

There are plenty of snakes out there that are "mainstream" that don't have crazy patterns or color morphs.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Define mainstream.

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* Popular enough to be kept by more than a handful of die-hard fans.

* Enjoyed enough by the general herpkeeping public to be referred to as something other than "that brown/green snake"

* Kept by enough people that there are more than two decent caresheets to be found on the entire Web

* Kept frequently enough that the Liasis board on this and other forums doesn't sit dormant for months on end until somebody who has already posted dozens of pictures of their snakes posts them again (or posts discussion topics like this) just to try to generate some activity on the forum.

All I'm saying is that with corns, kings, milks, balls, redtails, burms, etc. you seem to have an almost endless supply of color and pattern variations. Each one makes that morph the next "must have" version of an already popular snake. For something like a Macklott's python, there isn't even an albino form that I'm aware of, so it seems unlikely that they'll explode into popularity overnight like some other species have done in recent years.

Most Liasis also have a reputation that precedes them - almost every reference I can find about this genus before about 2002 focuses on how aggressive they are. That's turned around slightly in the past few years and now I at least see "they'll grow out of it." Of course, other snakes have this reputation too...look at GTPs for example. I keep these too, and it seems to me that most people who see mine bite me from time to time almost invariably lean towards "but they look so cool!" As a result of that, even green trees, which have less variation than most commonly kept snakes are
increasingly popular in captivity.

I think they're great, but I don't see this happening for the Liasis genus...

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Originally Posted by TrpnBils

* Popular enough to be kept by more than a handful of die-hard fans.

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I think you are underestimating the numbers of olives, macklott's, savus and fuscus out there.

While they do not enjoy the popularity of the more ubiquitous colubrids, they are out there in quantities that exceed a "handful".

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* Enjoyed enough by the general herpkeeping public to be referred to as something other than "that brown/green snake"

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I would look at it this way - they are enjoyed by a select and discriminating segment of the reptile hobby.

In general, they do not have the temperaments found with ball, corn and the more popular snake species. Temperament and manageable size have a great deal to do with popularity. Olives and fuscus don't fit the latter and liasis - in general - don't fit the former.

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* Kept by enough people that there are more than two decent caresheets to be found on the entire Web

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Care sheets are often not worth the space they take up. Gopher and pine snakes are very popular, as are antaresia pythons. Neither are represented by a plethora of care sheets.

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* Kept frequently enough that the Liasis board on this and other forums doesn't sit dormant for months on end until somebody who has already posted dozens of pictures of their snakes posts them again (or posts discussion topics like this) just to try to generate some activity on the forum.

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This is a ball python forum. Have you checked out the Aussie Snakes and Pythons site? Or the Morelia Pythons site? They are quite a bit more active with respect to liasis than this site.

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All I'm saying is that with corns, kings, milks, balls, redtails, burms, etc. you seem to have an almost endless supply of color and pattern variations. Each one makes that morph the next "must have" version of an already popular snake. For something like a Macklott's python, there isn't even an albino form that I'm aware of, so it seems unlikely that they'll explode into popularity overnight like some other species have done in recent years.

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It does seem unlikely indeed. I think you thoroughly answered your own question.

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]Most Liasis also have a reputation that precedes them - almost every reference I can find about this genus before about 2002 focuses on how aggressive they are. That's turned around slightly in the past few years and now I at least see "they'll grow out of it." Of course, other snakes have this reputation too...look at GTPs for example. I keep these too, and it seems to me that most people who see mine bite me from time to time almost invariably lean towards "but they look so cool!" As a result of that, even green trees, which have less variation than most commonly kept snakes are
increasingly popular in captivity.

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The reputation - in many respects - is deserved.

Oh - there are exceptional examples in any species - but on average, liasis can be a tad more pissy than snakes that enjoy a widespread popularity.

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I think they're great, but I don't see this happening for the Liasis genus...

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I think they are great too. I also don't see them reaching the popularity of lampropeltis, regius or even morelia and aspidites.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

It does seem unlikely indeed. I think you thoroughly answered your own question.

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You're right... my mistake. I won't waste any more of your time, sir.

I think part of the problem also is the size.

Most people are daunted by them.

But then again, most people start with Corns or Balls.

Don't worry. Some people will branch out into them :)

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Originally Posted by TrpnBils

You're right... my mistake. I won't waste any more of your time, sir.

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What the hell is wrong with all of these new people coming here, then getting pissed off at the answers we give.


This is the 5th thread I have read where a new member asks questions gets answers, and is either EXTREMELY mad over the answers, or instantly becomes a smart arse.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

What the hell is wrong with all of these new people coming here, then getting pissed off at the answers we give.


This is the 5th thread I have read where a new member asks questions gets answers, and is either EXTREMELY mad over the answers, or instantly becomes a smart arse.

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I'm not pissed... I posted a thread about something I've wondered about since I picked up my Macks awhile back. I had a simple observation that I almost never see Liasis at shows and end up being told that I'm wrong..."you're underestimating the numbers out there." I'm not estimating numbers at all...I've seen TWO Macklott's in the past 5ish years and TWO Savus.

If you'd like to keep this as your own private club for people who have been members for years upon years, then ask a mod to discontinue new membership.

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Originally Posted by TrpnBils

I'm not pissed... I posted a thread about something I've wondered about since I picked up my Macks awhile back. I had a simple observation that I almost never see Liasis at shows and end up being told that I'm wrong..."you're underestimating the numbers out there." I'm not estimating numbers at all...I've seen TWO Macklott's in the past 5ish years and TWO Savus.

If you'd like to keep this as your own private club for people who have been members for years upon years, then ask a mod to discontinue new membership.

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Just because YOU haven't seen them, doesn't mean they're not out there.
So yes, you are underestimating the numbers.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

I think part of the problem also is the size.

Most people are daunted by them.

But then again, most people start with Corns or Balls.

Don't worry. Some people will branch out into them :)

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True about size, but look at how many retics and burms are out there at shows. I don't think I'd classify any Liasis as beginner snakes, so of course for things like corns, balls, milks, kings will be more popular with people keeping first herps. I would think they fall more into a secondary herp vein (i.e. "Some experience needed" but not to the extent of a hot or something).

I think one thing that could definitely work in their favor is their activity level. People like active snakes, and my Macklotts are probably among the most active of all mine. I'd be curious to see if anybody raised any more interest in them if there were ever an amelanistic morph bred...I think they've got a lot to offer the hobby.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Just because YOU haven't seen them, doesn't mean they're not out there.
So yes, you are underestimating the numbers.

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Clearly I'm not suggesting that the four I've seen are the only four at any show anywhere in the country... but when you can go to any given show and see nothing from this genus and see hundreds or thousands of corns, balls, kings, and burms it tends to tell you they're not as popular as other species.

If anyone can point me to a reptile show that has Liasis almost to the exclusion to everything else (like Balls and Redtails were at the last show I attended) then I'll believe that I'm underestimating the numbers to such a large degree that I might as well have my head up my butt...

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Originally Posted by TrpnBils

If you'd like to keep this as your own private club for people who have been members for years upon years, then ask a mod to discontinue new membership.

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Hahahaha.

Unfortunately the whole "growth" thing is highly smiled upon here, so I cannot do that. But I can tell you that when someone with a crap ton of experience answers your questions in THE BEST way possible, even going as far as sectioning it for YOU to read it easier, dont be a smart arse about it and say "ill stop wasting your time".

Respond in a manner which will make you look like you actually know something, not that you just roll with an attitude.

By the way, for anyone reading this who is actually interested in these species - The Aussie Pythons forum suggested by Skiploder didn't have much when I searched, but the Morelia Pythons forum suggested does have quite a bit about them.

Ok, let's play nice and not let this turn into something it's not. Unfortunately, with black and white print, there is no voice inflection. Sometimes meaning is misconstrued.

Skiploder can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he meant that it is unlikely, and that the question has answered itself--nothing more, no hostility. If he were being hostile, he would not have taken the time to answer each individual question. But, without his voice, print can be misinterpreted. That's my take on it, and I hope we can get back to the business of raising herps and trying to predict the market.

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Originally Posted by TrpnBils

You're right... my mistake. I won't waste any more of your time, sir.

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:confused:

What did I say?

liasis may never become as popular as some other pythonidae genus's (genii?), but I for sure would like a pair of olives someday ;)

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

:confused:

What did I say?

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You said, "It does seem unlikely indeed. I think you thoroughly answered your own question," which I took to mean, "yes, it is unlikely. You nailed it." But, in print it may have sounded abrupt. I think the OP thought that you were implying that that question was a waste of time.

But, enough of my thinking people's thoughts.... This is an awesome forum that sometimes gets derailed because of miscommunication.

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Originally Posted by TrpnBils

"you're underestimating the numbers out there." I'm not estimating numbers at all...I've seen TWO Macklott's in the past 5ish years and TWO Savus.

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I agree with you I have to this day never seen a mack or savu or any liasis that I can recall and in my opinion if I don't see them then they must not be there. People keep saying your underestimating the numbers but that statement is as much of a statement of opinion as ours saying their aren't many around. Now if I walked into a pet shop and could find liasis then I would start to think maybe there are more out there but until that day, they are few and far between. I have been looking for an olive for a while and never seem to find any babies. You would think if there were so many out there then you would see more CB babies. I would love for them to get as popular as some of the other snake species but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

I agree with you I have to this day never seen a mack or savu or any liasis that I can recall and in my opinion if I don't see them then they must not be there. People keep saying your underestimating the numbers but that statement is as much of a statement of opinion as ours saying their aren't many around. Now if I walked into a pet shop and could find liasis then I would start to think maybe there are more out there but until that day, they are few and far between. I have been looking for an olive for a while and never seem to find any babies. You would think if there were so many out there then you would see more CB babies. I would love for them to get as popular as some of the other snake species but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

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There have been Liasis at all shows I have gone too.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

There have been Liasis at all shows I have gone too.

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You probably bought them all before I could get to them. lol. In all honesty I have never seen any. Well I think I saw a Mack last year or earlier this year but can remember for sure.

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

I agree with you I have to this day never seen a mack or savu or any liasis that I can recall and in my opinion if I don't see them then they must not be there. People keep saying your underestimating the numbers but that statement is as much of a statement of opinion as ours saying their aren't many around. Now if I walked into a pet shop and could find liasis then I would start to think maybe there are more out there but until that day, they are few and far between. I have been looking for an olive for a while and never seem to find any babies. You would think if there were so many out there then you would see more CB babies. I would love for them to get as popular as some of the other snake species but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

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All depends on where you're located.

Within a 50 mile radius I can see about 4 macklotti, 2 olives, a water and two savu for sale.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

All depends on where you're located.

Within a 50 mile radius I can see about 4 macklotti, 2 olives, a water and two savu for sale.

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True but if there were soo many out there then wouldn't they be a little more widespread not just little pockets. Now this may be due to ease of acquisition in certain areas, but I cannot think of any reason why you wouldn't be able to find them through out. IDK I'm just talking outta my arse as Pattycakes would put it. All I know is I never see them except for a few on KS every now and then.

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

I agree with you I have to this day never seen a mack or savu or any liasis that I can recall and in my opinion if I don't see them then they must not be there. People keep saying your underestimating the numbers but that statement is as much of a statement of opinion as ours saying their aren't many around. Now if I walked into a pet shop and could find liasis then I would start to think maybe there are more out there but until that day, they are few and far between. I have been looking for an olive for a while and never seem to find any babies. You would think if there were so many out there then you would see more CB babies. I would love for them to get as popular as some of the other snake species but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

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the one reptile shop I've been to nearby has had macks on occasion, and currently has some.

I would love to find a male for my female. Haven't stumbled upon one yet from someone I would buy from. There were 4 hatchling females at the Columbus show a couple months ago. Had Neil had some males, I would have snagged one. Of course I prefer an adult so I am making the search harder.

As for them becoming popular, I still have yet to figure out why they are not. People may think they are just a "plain brown snake" but my girl (I think) is stunning. Lighter with the darker freckles and they are hard to beat in the looks department when they are out in the sun.

BPs are my passion, but I have said time and time again that my Macklots is my favorite snake by far! I bought her at 4 years old. She came from a kid heading off to college who spent alot of time with her. She has a home with me until the day she dies. Puppy dog tame, most of the time. Hard to get a shot of though because she is always moving, wants to inspect everything. She is actually the one I bring out when people want to see a snake.

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Originally Posted by catawhat75

Puppy dog tame, most of the time. Hard to get a shot of though because she is always moving, wants to inspect everything. She is actually the one I bring out when people want to see a snake.

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That's why I think they have potential - they're curious and active. I think of all my snakes, these have the best "personality" of any of them. I find myself being watched and followed (stalked? :)) by them anytime I'm in my snake room. My female seems to have this obsession for being on top of my head at all times when I have her out. I'm not sure what that is, but if she's not there, she's absolutely trying to get there ASAP

Te genus will never become more popular becuase most herpers today are just after the latest trendy morphs, and most simply dont appreciate a brown snake, its as simple as that.

Of the 5 taxons in the genus none are common, though savus and macklotts can be found fairly easily. Olive pythons are rare and Fuscus are VERY rare, particularily Australain fuscus.

in fact fuscus are one species that could be lost to herpetoculture int he next several years. It took me 2 years to find a pair of Australian fuscus, and in that time I only came across a few specimens and in most cases the owner knew nothing about where they came from.

The last species is the Dunns pythons Lasis macklotti dunni and they are already lost to US herpetoculture. There were animals in the US but due largely to a lack of interest they are no longer to be found in this country.

For the record I keep Macklotti, savuensis, fuscus and olivaceous.

When i get more money i am gonna have liasis like there is no tomorrow i love olives one of my faves.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I think you are underestimating the numbers of olives, macklott's, savus and fuscus out there.

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I think your underestimating how uncommon they actually are im going to guess most people on this forum have never seen one in person I know I haven't although I plan owning a macklot and an olive python one day.

And here i thought these animals WERE pretty darn popular.....

Nothing like Xenopeltis, or, oh.... any Ptyas for instance...... Right. Ill be on my merry way. :)

You're right, they just aren't around that much. I went to Tinley NARBC last weekend looking to buy a pair of Macklott's and I couldn't find a single one at the entire show. I did see a few Savus that I almost picked up, but I ended up getting a pair of granite spotted pythons since they have similar color, iridescence, care and temperament as Macklott's, even it they only reach 1/3 to 1/2 the size. I'm always saying how Liasis species are too underrated, and that I wish I saw more of them in the hobby. I don't know what it is that keeps them down in popularity, being that they generally don't get any larger than most of the boa species that are so popular. And other than white lipped pythons, most have decent temperaments and great 'personalities'. Not to mention they are faily easy to breed in captivity and can produce decent sized clutches. I can tell you that I am personally planning to reduce the size of my ball python collection to free up enough space to start working with a few different python species, and macklott's are near the top of my list. I am looking for very reduced freckled animals, and it's hard enough to find any for sale, so it might take me a while, but I will have a breeding group one day.

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Originally Posted by DarkComeSoon

I think your underestimating how uncommon they actually are im going to guess most people on this forum have never seen one in person I know I haven't although I plan owning a macklot and an olive python one day.

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I've seen quite a few and know quite a few people who have them. I think you are overestimating how unpopular they are.

As to your statement that I highlighted - what are you basing your assumption on? Are you assuming that since YOU haven't seen one most other people haven't? Or is this based on some sort of poll, unspoken fact, vision that you had, etc. - help me out here.......

Don't be too hard on him, I do think it's a fair statement that liasis snakes are no where near as populous or popular among herpers when compared to other pythonidae, the boas, and the colubrids.

every freakin post leads to some kind a fighting why can't we all just get a long :rolleyes:

The only species I have seen is savu. They were cool but nippy. I would love to have an olive some day. Are they aggressive? I had heard that they were not.

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Originally Posted by JohnAvilla

The only species I have seen is savu. They were cool but nippy. I would love to have an olive some day. Are they aggressive? I had heard that they were not.

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like all snakes, there's bitey ones, there's puppy-dog tame ones, and everything in between.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I've seen quite a few and know quite a few people who have them. I think you are overestimating how unpopular they are.

As to your statement that I highlighted - what are you basing your assumption on? Are you assuming that since YOU haven't seen one most other people haven't? Or is this based on some sort of poll, unspoken fact, vision that you had, etc. - help me out here.......

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**post deleted by dr del**

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Originally Posted by DarkComeSoon

**post deleted by dr del**

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I'm confused are just joking around?

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Originally Posted by DarkComeSoon

**post deleted by dr del**

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That's the most accurate comment you've made in this thread.

How about answering the question. I picked up some supplies from a place on my way home from work this evening. They have macklotti and savu. They have had fuscus in the past. They currently have apadora papuana.

While liasis are no where near as popular as ball pythons or red tail boas, they do have a following and there are quite a few people who have them. Just because you have not run across them does not mean they are unpopular.

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Originally Posted by jere000

I'm confused are just joking around?

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Why would I be joking

:popcorn:

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

That's the most accurate comment you've made in this thread.

How about answering the question. I picked up some supplies from a place on my way home from work this evening. They have macklotti and savu. They have had fuscus in the past. They currently have apadora papuana.

While liasis are no where near as popular as ball pythons or red tail boas, they do have a following and there are quite a few people who have them. Just because you have not run across them does not mean they are unpopular.

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Serious question what country do you live in?

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Originally Posted by DarkComeSoon

Why would I be joking .

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I know you're not joking - I would expect no less of you.

It's okay - a little angry internet name calling isn't going to hurt my feelings. Pardon me however, if I insist on not stooping to your level.

Answer the question - are you assuming that you're lack of exposure to liasis means that they are unpopular?

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Originally Posted by DarkComeSoon

Serious question what country do you live in?

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I'm Assyrian by birth.

Then I emigrated to Massachusetts.

Now I live in Manassas.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I know you're not joking - I would expect no less of you.

It's okay - a little angry internet name calling isn't going to hurt my feelings. Pardon me however, if I insist on not stooping to your level.

Answer the question - are you assuming that you're lack of exposure to liasis means that they are unpopular?

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I wouldn't go as far to say that they are unattainable but you can't go to a reptile expo and find 100 of them.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Answer the question - are you assuming that you're lack of exposure to liasis means that they are unpopular?

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Ill answer this one for you.


Absofreakinlutely.

These comments are the product of someone that knows very few to no people who are well versed in reptiles as a general rule, and probably never asks a single question outside of how to breed their ball python.

And while i cant say thats necessarily a BAD thing in general *everyone starts somewhere*, the fact of the matter is, this person is insulting in their tone, and posts to someone far more educated than them and speaking in a manner of authority upon information of which they have very. very little clue.

Ignorance these days astounds me. And the petty assumption made here, because they do not see pictures online on Ball Pythons.net featuring these animals, so therefore they must not be popular, just has me mashing the keys in such a way that i have to backspace a whole heck of a lot!

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Originally Posted by DarkComeSoon

I wouldn't go as far to say that they are unattainable but you can't go to a reptile expo and find 100 of them.

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I can't find 100 woma pythons at an expo, or 100 indigos, or 100 ackie monitors, or 100 cribos, or 100 children's pythons or 100 false water cobras at an Expo.

That doesn't mean that those species are not unpopular or don't have a following - right?

At the San Jose Reptile show I can honestly say I saw more savus than I did drymarchon or hydrodynastes or pine snakes.

What do we make of that?

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Originally Posted by DarkComeSoon

I wouldn't go as far to say that they are unattainable but you can't go to a reptile expo and find 100 of them.

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Has Absolutely no bearing on the fact of whether or not they are popular.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I can't find 100 woma pythons at an expo, or 100 indigos, or 100 ackie monitors, or 100 cribos, or 100 children's pythons or 100 false water cobras at an Expo.

That doesn't mean that those species are not unpopular or don't have a following - right?

At the San Jose Reptile show I can honestly say I saw more savus than I did drymarchon or hydrodynastes or pine snakes.

What do we make of that?

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True also im done fighting and im sorry.

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Originally Posted by DarkComeSoon

True also im done fighting and im sorry.

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It isn't the first time that I've been called as much and it won't be the last.

Apology accepted. Peace.

Ask yourself how many people you know know the difference between a Ball Python, and an Angolan Python.

That's pretty much why they're not popular, not many people know that much about them or know anything at all about them. I personally think Olives are one of the most beautiful snakes on the planet, but I highly doubt I'll ever one one because of their sheer size.