Temp drop at night?

Why is it that it is recommended on here to not have temps drop at night. I can't imagine that they don't where they naturally live in Africa....

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

Why is it that it is recommended on here to not have temps drop at night. I can't imagine that they don't where they naturally live in Africa....

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You can but you don't have to, it's up to you.

Try things around and see what works best for you and your animals.

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

Why is it that it is recommended on here to not have temps drop at night. I can't imagine that they don't where they naturally live in Africa....

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They are found in equatorial Africa, where temps really don't fluctuate much. Plus temps measured inside of termite mounds and rodent burrows where they spend most of their time remain pretty constant without much change in temps.

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

Why is it that it is recommended on here to not have temps drop at night. I can't imagine that they don't where they naturally live in Africa....

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temp drops at night trigger adult animals to go into breeding mode. :) If you ideally want your snake to keep eating through the winter (and some just stop anyway no matter what you do), then keeping the temps up is what you want.

Its your choice for what you want to do with your animals. personally recommend against temp changes for a newer keeper with a younger snake because if you let the temps get too low you're asking for an RI (even with an adult animal actually) and because it can be difficult to get right without the proper equipment, etc. but if you can make it work for you then go for it :P

This is what my temps would be
80 in 2 of the hides
83-85 in another hide
86-89 basking
is this ok

You should have an overall ambient temperature of 80-85*F and a hot spot of 92-94*F.

You should have a hide over the hot spot, ball pythons don't "bask".

I do have a hide on the hotspot during the day but during the night because a certain hide is high it creates A warmer basking spot during the night. Should I get Another bulb so that there is much less of a temp drop at night?

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

I do have a hide on the hotspot during the day but during the night because a certain hide is high it creates A warmer basking spot during the night. Should I get Another bulb so that there is much less of a temp drop at night?

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can you take a picture of your set up and post it? That may help us give you advice.

Personally I would ditch the bulbs and go with a UTH.

Ok here it is
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36764385@N06/3956247605/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36764385@N06/3957024908/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/36764385@N06/3957021626/
The warm spot is the rock cave and the cool spot is the cardboard box.

And if I switch to a UTH, my tank is glass and it is sitting on a wood dresser, where would I put it?

That enclosure is pretty big and open for a ball python. You should get him two identical tight-fitting hides so he dosen't have to choose between safety and thermoregulation. The cardboard hide is very large.

I'd also cover 3 of the sides with black construction paper or something he can't see through.

I dont see any thermometers or temp guns laying around. How are you measuring your temps and humidity?

What are you using two lamps for? Lamps really kill humidity.

Are the books on the lid keeping the lid down to prevent the snake from escaping? If they are, you need to ditch them ASAP because books or rocks will not hold a snake in and are very dangerous to use as weights.

I'm not understanding how your hot spot changes at night with the two hides.. could you explain this a little more?

I have a thermometer that I forgot to put back in there when I put him back.
Ok about the hides... what should I use? The rock den is VERY tight on him, like he doesn't even completely fit in it.
Yes that is what the books are doing. The lid has a fairly large whole in it, so I use a metal weight taped down and those weights on top of it. I really don't think there is anything wrong with that. I use lamps because I have heard UTH's cause burns. It changes because I move where the lamp is and since the box is so tall, it is warmer there.

And do I need to get anything to regulate the temp of where the UTH is?

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

I have a thermometer that I forgot to put back in there when I put him back.
Ok about the hides... what should I use? The rock den is VERY tight on him, like he doesn't even completely fit in it.
Yes that is what the books are doing. The lid has a fairly large whole in it, so I use a metal weight taped down and those weights on top of it. I really don't think there is anything wrong with that. I use lamps because I have heard UTH's cause burns. It changes because I move where the lamp is and since the box is so tall, it is warmer there.

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

And do I need to get anything to regulate the temp of where the UTH is?

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Hides- I made mine out of various things, i have some pre-made plastic hides that i like. They are from reptile basics (http://reptilebasics.com/Hide-Boxes-p-1-c-282.html). I made some of mine out of plastic, opaque plant saucers, some out of plastic bowls i bought from the party supply store (a soldering iron is your BEST friend for melting plastic). http://images.orgill.com/200x200/2594331.jpg

- The reason that books are dangerous is because 1. they can be knocked off by other animals (i have cats, i've watched them knock things off enclosures). And the second reason, the really dangerous one, is because animals have perished because they've been able to push the weights off to one side enough to let them get part of their head and neck through, the weight shifts and crushes or suffocates the animal.

- Lamps can cause burns if the snake can get near them. What if the snake escaped through the hole in the lid and got close to the lamp? Its a hypothetical, but its possible. They are also humidity killers. If you can make them work then more power to you, but its not the easiest thing in the world to do. You don't really need to move the lamp, the snake will thermoregulate itself if its secure.

- UTHs really do need to be regulated. There is a cheap thermostat you can get for 25, the reptitemp 500R (which is really a glorified rheostat but some people swear by them). There are also dimmer switches you can use but you really need to keep an eye on them. Then there are more reliable thermostats like johnson controls and ranco http://reptilebasics.com/Thermostats-p-1-c-250.html Rich at reptile basics pre-wires some of them so they are ready to go right out of the box if you're uncomfortable doing it yourself. Then high end is helix, herpstat/spyder robotics.

The tank is a 40b, what size UTH should I get? I can get anything I need tomorrow. I really don't want to spend 50 bucks on a UTH and a thermostat. Is there any way around this? I can modify the hides so that they are alot tighter on him. I can afford to buy any UTH I need, but I can't really drop another 30 for a thermostat, being 14 and all lol.

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

The tank is a 40b, what size UTH should I get? I can get anything I need tomorrow. I really don't want to spend 50 bucks on a UTH and a thermostat. Is there any way around this? I can modify the hides so that they are alot tighter on him. I can afford to buy any UTH I need, but I can't really drop another 30 for a thermostat, being 14 and all lol.

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You need to understand that the animals needs come before yours, and age has nothing to do with it. Do you get an allowance? have a b-day coming up? do odd jobs? Etc. Even Dimmer switches are around 5-10 bucks (you can search how to hook them up on the forums. I dont use them personally so i can't advise you on them).

There are under tank heaters of different varieties. Some are more expensive then others, and you will ALWAYS pay more at a pet store. For a 40B, you'd need a 30-40gal UTH. They come in sizes i think.. Basically you want it to cover 1/3 of the floor of the enclosure. The petsmart ones, zoomed, zilla, cobra-something.. just search online for under tank heaters and you should come up with some more affordable results. There is a thing called flexwatt tape that you can use but flex NEEDS to be used with a thermostat, it can heat up to 140+ unregulated.

If you can, do shopping online or at shows, you really save money. I know when i was 14, if i needed something on the net (and i had no debit/credit hard back then) i talked to them to see if it was ok if they bought it and i gave them cash so we were even.

Alright I asked my mom and she said I can dip into my savings. Basically, tell me exactly what I need to get and how much it would cost at a pet store or other store. The next local reptile show is not for awhile.

How do you suggest I keep that hole secure then?

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

Alright I asked my mom and she said I can dip into my savings. Basically, tell me exactly what I need to get and how much it would cost at a pet store or other store. The next local reptile show is not for awhile.

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

How do you suggest I keep that hole secure then?

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new screen :) they make clips to hold the screens in place. I know you can get replacement screens at petsmart/co.

When i did use glass, i had a "reptile specific" one that had a sliding, pin-style locking lid. It was actually pretty sweet for what it was.

For heating: I'd reccomend 1 foot of 11 inch flexwatt, pre-wired from reptile basics http://reptilebasics.com/Flexwatt-He...p-1-c-297.html, get the heat-tape, the connection and the clips and rich will wire it for you. It will be like 9 dollars total. OR you can get an UTH http://reptilebasics.com/Ultratherm-...p-1-c-273.html (11x11 could be ok), thats 19.00 or so. And i'd recommend a pre-wired johnsons control or ranco thermostat (found under thermostats). This is what has worked for me, you're welcome to create something new that works for you as well.

I was using a johnsons control thermostat with flex for a few years, now i've got a helix and im still using heat tape. The helix therms are 129+ dollars.

The difference between the johnson/ranco and the helix/herpstat is that the johnsons/ranco are on/off thermostats an the helix/herps are on ALL the time, constantly controlling temps. They are both acceptable units.

Some people love the reptitemp 500r. I can't stand them personally, but thats because i had a lot of temp fluctuations in the room i lived in when i was using it. If you've got stable room temperatures it could be ok for you. You can usually find those for 30 or so dollars.

If you want, Rich's number is on the reptilebasics website. You can give him a call during business hours, and talk to him about what he thinks. The guy is the KING of customer service. The power strip on my johnson control thermostat was malfunctioning and he had me send it back, replace the strip and ship it back to me free of charge like 5 months after i bought it. He's very knowledable about every one of his products. Since I dont do a lot of work with aquariums anymore, he may be able to better understand the needs of your snake in its environment :)

Why can't I just get a UTH and a thermostat and that pet store. I defintetly can spend 129 dollars on one.

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

Why can't I just get a UTH and a thermostat and that pet store. I defintetly can spend 129 dollars on one.

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the only "thermostat" i've seen in pet/co/smart is the reptitemp 500R. They dont sell the higher end, more professional (read:reliable) thermostats. :/ If they functioned like caring corporations, they'd actually carry everything you needed but thats a rant for another day lol.

Its your money, i know the 40gal UTHs are lik..40-50 bucks at pet/cmart or at least they were last time i checked, i haven't gone into one in months because i don't buy anything except for the odd cat toy from the big box stores. I'd rather support the smaller, professional stores that stock good things for my animals (once again , totally a personal preference and not everyone cares about something like that or has the opportunity to choose something else).

I shop online for two reasons. 1; i make very little money at my job at the moment and want to save as much as possible and i've found stuff is WAY cheaper on the nets, even after shipping.
2. i want to support the people that better my hobbies. Reptile keeping big a BIG part of my life.

and like i said, this is just me and whats worked for my system. If this dosen't sound good to you, pioneer something new! :p

I mean can't spend that much

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

I mean can't spend that much

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do you have a lot of temperature flucation in the room your snake is in? like.. does the room go from 60-70, or 70-78 or have more than just 2-3 degrees? or... do you spend a lot of time at home? you can always go for the reptitemp. but since there is no actual temperature setting on the unit you have to eyeball it, and if your room temps change, the thermostat can only compensate 1 way to change the temp. Do some searches on the forum for Reptitemp 500r and it should bring up some more info.

If you dont want to change anything, thats your choice, but i'd definitely get him at least 2 identical hides :)

Explain what the purpose of having a thermostat is. I know it is to control temps, but if room temps are stable and I check on it very often( I am cyber schooled),is it really necessary? To be totally honest, my absolute max budget is 75 bucks. Cant I just use my thermometer to monitor the temps, and if it gets too hot, turn it off. I have one of those round thermometers, the zilla one, and couldn't I just place it on the warm side to monitor temps? Are UTH's prone to power surges?

Where to the UTH's go? Like in the tank, outside of it, what?

I am almost always home.

No I do not think there is a huge temp fluctuation in my room, at least in fall, winter, and spring.

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Originally Posted by thegoalie22

Explain what the purpose of having a thermostat is. I know it is to control temps, but if room temps are stable and I check on it very often( I am cyber schooled),is it really necessary? To be totally honest, my absolute max budget is 75 bucks. Cant I just use my thermometer to monitor the temps, and if it gets too hot, turn it off. I have one of those round thermometers, the zilla one, and couldn't I just place it on the warm side to monitor temps? Are UTH's prone to power surges?

Where to the UTH's go? Like in the tank, outside of it, what?

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you can do anything you want, he's your animal. BUT, since they rely soley on their environments to regulate their temperatures, what if the UTH shorts and it spikes? What if your thermometer isn't accurate? Its really just the 'set it and forget it" mentality of a thermostat that helps for safety. What if you go out for the night and for some reason the tems arent stable and your UTH goes up to 120?

Ive tested every UTH i've owned. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM exceeds 100 degrees F when measured with a calibrated digital thermometer. I've had them reach 124. Thats not safe. I've had them reach 105-111 with the reptitemp, thats the reason i ordered my johnson. I bit the bullet, spent the ~90 for the unit and shipping and then didn't have to worry about my animal if i left for the the day/weekend/week/whatever. If 90 was all it took to buy my piece of mind then SOLD.

As for UTH location, they go on one side of the tank on the outside on the bottom. You can either stick them on with the sticky, or use foil tape or another high temperature rated tape to stick them to the bottom so you can re-use them on another enclosure if necessary. If you get a thermostat, you put the thermostat probe between the UTH and the tank to get a proper reading. This way, the snake can't knock the probe around or pee on it or something and cool it down, causing the thermostat to kick on, you can get bad temp spikes if you dont place the probes properly. :/

Those round analog zilla thermometers are terrible, they're known for being over 10 degrees off in either direction. We reccomend the accurite indoor/outdoor thermometer with hydrometer and probe. They can be found at home depot/lowes/walmart/target for like 12 bucks , this is what it looks like http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...FIPQlAevk_2QAQ

whoa mile long URL lol!

I got a appropriate size uth.
I will set ot up when I get home. I did not get a thermostat because I am home so much and can just monitor it

You should at least get something to regulate the UTH with. They almost ALWAYS get above 100 degrees. So even if you were watching it 24/7, you'd have to keep unplugging it like every 10 minutes to get it to the proper temp. If you want to go cheap, get a lamp dimmer at Home Depot for $10. It is way better than using nothing at all. And definitely get that Accurite thermometer so you can always know what the temps are at the hot & cold spots of your tank. So lamp dimmer at Home Depot for $10, Accurite at Walmart for $11-$12 keeps you below your budget of $75.