beginner setup question

Hey everyone, last week I was given a pair of bp by someone who had lost their house.... He had them together in a 55 gallon tank with a red light on top, a log like hide thing, large dog bowl for water, and a shedding rock. Well, I've started reading about bp and have learned this is not the right set up for them! They are about 4 feet and 3.5 feet long. He told me which one was a male and which was a female, but I plan to get them probed, cause I don't think he knows much about ball pythons. They eat a live medium rat every week, so I'm told. (They don't have names and he has no clue how old they are.)

I plan on getting 2 41 qt locking tubs for them, flexwatt and a thermostat. Does anyone have any recomendations for a good yet not too expensive thermostat? And are these different from your normal house thermostats and how so? I'd like to get something off ebay or used if possible. I want to attach both flexwatts to the thermostat, it seems I can do this, right? Cause I'm using the same type of heat sources and the two tubs will be by each other.

I'd like to buy the right thermostat cause if this works out, I wouldn't mind breeding down the road. (But not yet, so I need to separate them asap, right? I doubt I could handle that yet... lol)

It will be two weeks or so till I can get this equipment, so I'd also like some ideas on what I should do right now too. It's 80 in my house during the day and 72 or so at night.

Thanks in advance for your tips, I feel a little in over my head right now....

And recommendations on buying flexwatt? A foot of the 11" is right for me, correct? Is beanfarm, or reptile basics a better deal/better company? I need clips and plastic pieces too, right, no way to jerry rig it to save money? I have an electrician friend who says he can wire it all together for me, or I would be asking how to do that too... :rolleye2:

I like dealing with reptile basics. Rich has always given me very prompt service and would be a good guy to email about your needs, especially if you plan on buying your equipment online. I would think a single helix t stat (available on the reptile basics web site) would be enough for what you plan on doing.

Good for you on getting them set up the right way.

Reptile thermostats are different then household thermostats. They are made specifically for controlling heating devices for reptiles. The cheapest model is the reptitemp 500r at about $25. The next step up is a digital thermostat from reptile basics. Either the Johnson controls or the ranco. Both are about the same. They cost $80. If you are willing to spend the money for the more expensive thermostat (which I recommend, especially if you plan on breeding) then order that and your flexwatt from reptile basics.

One foot of the 11" per tub should be fine. The flexwatt should cover 1/3 of the ground area of the tub. Wiring flexwatt is actually more simple than it looks. I did it myself and I know basically nothing about electricity and stuff.

As for housing them until you can get everything set up for them, divide the 55g in half with something. Do NOT secure it with tape though. They will find a way to get themselves stuck on it and it is not fun to get them off.

Get them each two identical tight fitting hides. Not those half logs, they are too open for ball pythons. They should have a small opening and the snake should fit in very snugly.

Heat lights are fine for a few weeks while you get everything together. But, please get some quality thermometers ASAP. The accurite seems to be the most popular. You can buy it at the home depot for around $11. It measures ambient temp, hot spot temp, and humidity so it is all you will ever need. Get one for each snake.

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Originally Posted by gmcclurelssu

I like dealing with reptile basics. Rich has always given me very prompt service and would be a good guy to email about your needs, especially if you plan on buying your equipment online. I would think a single helix t stat (available on the reptile basics web site) would be enough for what you plan on doing.

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You don't need an expensive Helix thermostat - a Johnson or Ranco T-stat would be just fine for what you're doing. Check with Rich at RBI -
HELIX = overkill and not worth the extra dollars!

I have a 6 x 8 uth I could put under the tank too, but I was worried about them getting burnt cause I don't have a way (yet) to regulate the temp...

I can use plastic containers with holes cut in the sides as temporary hides, right? At least till my check comes and I can get them the right ones. Any recommendations? Are the heavier rock looking ones they sell at the pet store better than a plastic flower pot? I personally prefer the idea of a terra cotta pot with a hole chipped in, but this isn't about me.....

I'd way rather go with the more pricey of the thermostat options you suggested at this point, I want it to last and the dial looks like a pia, does anyone have anything particularly good or bad to say about the Johnson or the Ranco? I'll do more research comparing the two tomorrow....

A friend has some dial themometers I can have till I get my check, (I'll get two acurites then, almost everyone on every forum I've read recommends these) I'm out to pick them up tonight, so I'll let you guys know what their temps are to make sure everything is ok for now. He has some of that expanding coco bark stuff too, would that be a good idea to put down to increase humididty? Weather.com say's the humdity here is 39%, I haven't seen either of them shed yet so I don't know if that's a problem, but I assume it is...

And any suggestions for dividing the tank? Is this really important? (Don't answer that, I know it is...) If I put on in a Rubbermaid tub (with air holes) he's gonna get too cold, right?

And how soon should I try to feed them? No money issue here, I have rats.... Sadly I originally thought these snakes would be an easy addition, I breed for friends with snakes (who also it appears know nothing about bp, he thinks their fine with out a hide, their happy, always cuddling in a corner together... :weirdface. ) Once I get all set up it I'll be fine, but right now I'm pulling my hair out with amazement at the misinformation!!! I went to the pet store to look at prices, etc and the employees didn't see why I was so concerned about my snakes, one told me it sounds like I already have a perfect setup.... Why is there such conflicting views out there?

Also I see basic and pre-wired options on the johnson t-stat. Any reason I should bother with the prewired?

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I have a 6 x 8 uth I could put under the tank too, but I was worried about them getting burnt cause I don't have a way (yet) to regulate the temp...

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Smart move. You could purchase a $10 piggy back dimmer from the home depot. You will need a thermometer with a probe to do this though as the temps can still spike with the dimmer attached.

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I can use plastic containers with holes cut in the sides as temporary hides, right? At least till my check comes and I can get them the right ones. Any recommendations? Are the heavier rock looking ones they sell at the pet store better than a plastic flower pot? I personally prefer the idea of a terra cotta pot with a hole chipped in, but this isn't about me.....

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You can use them as forever hides if you want to. I use plastic food containers with holes cut out. I don't think it is worth it to pay for the expensive pet store hides. Nothing wrong with a terra cotta pot, just make sure it is low to the ground and not 6" tall.

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I'd way rather go with the more pricey of the thermostat options you suggested at this point, I want it to last and the dial looks like a pia, does anyone have anything particularly good or bad to say about the Johnson or the Ranco? I'll do more research comparing the two tomorrow....

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I use a Johnson thermostat and I love it, never had any problems. I don't think any one has had any problems aside from the occasional malfunction. But that happens with any piece of equipment.

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A friend has some dial themometers I can have till I get my check, (I'll get two acurites then, almost everyone on every forum I've read recommends these) I'm out to pick them up tonight, so I'll let you guys know what their temps are to make sure everything is ok for now. He has some of that expanding coco bark stuff too, would that be a good idea to put down to increase humididty? Weather.com say's the humdity here is 39%, I haven't seen either of them shed yet so I don't know if that's a problem, but I assume it is...

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Keep in mind those dial thermometers will be up to 10*F off. I personally hate the coco fiber. It is basically just dirt. If it is too wet it can cause scale rot and urine just disappears into its depths. If you want a loose substrate, go with aspen. Just not pine or cedar.

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And any suggestions for dividing the tank? Is this really important? (Don't answer that, I know it is...) If I put one in a Rubbermaid tub (with air holes) he's gonna get too cold, right?

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Well, yes it is important. They won't die if they are kept together, but they will appreciate the privacy. Putting one in a tub and in the tank, maybe perhaps over a UTH might work. You could always give it a try and see how it goes. As for dividing, a piece of dark plastic or even cardboard (replaced when soiled) will work.

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And how soon should I try to feed them? No money issue here, I have rats.... Sadly I originally thought these snakes would be an easy addition, I breed for friends with snakes (who also it appears know nothing about bp, he thinks their fine with out a hide, their happy, always cuddling in a corner together... :weirdface. ) Once I get all set up it I'll be fine, but right now I'm pulling my hair out with amazement at the misinformation!!! I went to the pet store to look at prices, etc and the employees didn't see why I was so concerned about my snakes, one told me it sounds like I already have a perfect setup.... Why is there such conflicting views out there?

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Well, a lot of people just don't know. They don't do the research or they ask pet store employees, whom they trust, what they need. 99% of the time, pet store employees are wrong.

As for feeding, wait a week from the day you got them. Don't be surprised if they don't eat though. If they are full grown they can go many months with out eating so they won't mind a tiny fast until you get things all figured out.

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Originally Posted by skylakttn

Also I see basic and pre-wired options on the johnson t-stat. Any reason I should bother with the prewired?

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I bought the pre-wired because I didn't want to mess up wiring a very important and expensive piece of equipment. If you are confident in your or someone else's wiring capabilities, then go for it.

If you already have an extra power strip and soldering gun laying around the house and you are good with electrical stuff then go ahead and get the un-wired t-stat. But if you are going to have to buy everything to wire it then you will end up spending almost the same as if you just bought the prewired version.

All I can say about the Ranco's is that I have 4 of them from RBI and haven't had any problems yet...


Rob

Thanks guys you have all been quite helpful, I appreciate your advice.

Ok, hides, is it better if their made of heavier material, rather than a lightweight plastic? Has anyone's snakes shown a preference? I saw a shallow terra cotta pot with a hole chipped into it on one website.... Do I need to smooth the sides down where I cut? Or would this just be a good spot for them to rub on to shed?

As far as the dial therm and coco dirt, I don't approve either, these are totally temporary options, I plan to use newspaper and get acurites when I can. (Feel free to offer a better suggestion if you have one!) Should I not use the coco? Or would it be beneficial for them to increase the humidity right now? It's free, it's this or newspaper for the next couple weeks till their tub home is ready. I'd like to try aspen, but I'm gonna have to shop around for the best deal, and there is WAY too much else that is more important for me to be getting right now.

As far as the cardboard divider, you don't think they will just push that down?

It's been a week since I got them, so I'll try feeding them tonight. I'll let you know how that goes.....

Thanks again to those who have posted advice! I need it!

They both ate last night no problem. Sighted the rat almost immediately and struck with no hesitations. Nice! I noticed a lot of you guys feed f/t rats to your guys. Is this because it's easier, one post said it's for the snakes safety? I assume you never leave a live rat with a bp unattended.... I've seen what rats can chew through, lol. Do you guys have problems with snakes taking a f/t when their used to live? I wouldn't mind having some frozen, sometimes rat breeding come be unpredictable....

I also found a local pet store that said they can sex my snakes for me, I don't trust any info from the guy I got them from. Any questions I should have for the pet store lady? She seems to be more informed than the chain stores I've been in, she's the owner.... I'm gonna have her weigh and measure them too.

Well, you can always test the divider. I don't think they would purposefully push it down. Just make sure it is in there snugly.

Well good to hear they both ate! I feed f/t just because I really don't like keeping live feeders around. I have done it before and it is just way more work than I need. keeping them in the freezer just works much better :P No maintenance. Also, the nice thing about f/t is (well at least for me) I can just drop a thawed mouse/rat in the tub and leave. I don't need to dangle or anything and I know there is no risk of the rodent coming back to live and mauling my snake. I have gone between live and f/t, but then again, my snakes are not picky at all. It really depends on the snake. Some can switch back and forth no problem, some can't.

Personally, I wouldn't go to a pet store to get anything health related done with my animals. Going to a pet store with one of your animals means other possibly sick animals in the store could transfer their illness (or mites!) onto your snakes. That is no picnic. If you do go, make sure you are absolutely certain that she knows exactly what she is doing (if she is probing or popping). If she is just guessing she could injure your animals.

Length isn't really a useful measurement and it is very hard to get an accurate measurement. I just weigh my animals regularly to get an idea of how much weight they are gaining. If they are gaining, all is good.

If I'm not going to a pet store to get them sexed, I need to go to a vet? Is it easy to find a vet who does snakes? And how much more will that cost? And wouldn't that put the snakes at similar risks, lots of sick animals at the vet for sure! The pet store lady (well, her name is Rachel) isn't gonna charge me. And she'll said she'll be probing. I've asked around, had one other pet store tell me to go talk to her (guess I was asking too many questions they couldn't answer... lol) and she talks about animals like she knows her stuff. Didn't have a lot of time with her, gotta call and set up an appointment to have her do the snakes.

Divider is in place and hasn't been disturbed at all yet.... I put coco in, made sure to squeeze it out really well so it's not too wet.

What kind of a scale should I look for to weight them myself?

It really is up to you. I am just saying that I personally wouldn't take them to a petstore. If you trust the pet store has healthy animals and the woman probing them knows what she is doing than go for it.

Any kind of kitchen sclae works. Just make sure the max is something over 3,000gs and it has a tare feature. You can find them at any big box store. Target, walmart, etc.