Reduced pattern clowns? Is this genetic?

Hi everyone,

This past weekend was the first ever Canadian Reptile Breeders Expo in Toronto. An awesome time. Attended by hundreds. Tons of vendors. A plethora of stunning animals and of course a wide assortment of top notch ball pythons.

One that really struck me as being a stand out and totally amazing was a reduced pattern male clown at Simon Hamelin's table. (Check him out: http://www.shreptiles.ca )

I took these pics of the snake:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ternclow-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ernclownma.jpg

Does anyone know if when it comes to clowns their patterning is at all genetic? Like a busy clown will most likely produce busy clowns while a reduced pattern clown will throw the same?

Thanks for any help.

not sure, but it looks awesome

Imagine reduced patterns being like height in humans.

Tall parents have generally tall children. Can you tell exactly how tall a kid will be by the parents? Not always, but you can make educated guesses. It is "genetic", but more complicated than just tracing the passing of a single mutated gene.

I imagine that a reduced pattern clown is just an animal expressing the clown mutation along with being REALLY REALLY tall (reduced in pattern)

I think it's genetic. I also think using banded het may have something to do with making more reduced clowns. This is my most reduced one this season but all of the ones I produced this year were at least somewhat reduced:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...DSCN2794-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by pfan151

I think it's genetic. I also think using banded het may have something to do with making more reduced clowns. This is my most reduced one this season but all of the ones I produced this year were at least somewhat reduced:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...DSCN2794-1.jpg

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could you post a pic of the parents please? I'd love to get an idea of what kind of parents throw offspring like that!

holy smokes.. that last one is amazing (I was gonna use another word but that would be a no no :P ) yes please post the parents.. I really would like to see this as well.

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

holy smokes.. that last one is amazing (I was gonna use another word but that would be a no no :P ) yes please post the parents.. I really would like to see this as well.

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i agree please do show :)
:pc:

Here are the parents that produced all of my het females. The het female that actually produced this clown looks very similar to it's Dam, but I don't have a pic of her.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...DSCN0265_2.jpg

Honestly Stephan I do not think it has been proven yet, but I would put some faith in it, like with any other aspect of selective breeding.

I know I had this same conversation with two breeders at the last Mtl show. One that waited several years to import what he thought was the perfect clown and another that believes that all hets have equal chance of producing similar offspring... luck of the draw, as there is a range within any morph that can be expressed.

Take pastels... selective breeding can go a really long way to producing killer pastels, while a low grade pastel can also throw stellar babes.

I would always err on the side of selective breeding, and would aim for offspring from the nicest animals you can find, and if I was working on a combo I would pair that reduced clown with another reduced animal (pastel for example).

But clowns are tricky. The hets I have are normal looking busy patterned BPs but the sire was a hugely reduced clown. So what effect the female had in it, I have no idea. She may have been a nice reduced normal or just a normal normal...

...if that made sense?

Bruce

What little I know about the reduced line clowns, because I happen to love the reduced clowns (who woulda thunk it? LOL) is that BHB has an extreme reduced pattern line of clowns.

Sean Bradley acquired one of his clowns and has selectively bred that animal to reduced pattern females (if I'm remembering the story correctly) and then raised up those hets and went on to produce some killer looking reduced clown offspring.

The hets from this particular line tend to be reduced patterned themselves, and very light in color. Heck, I think I love the hets as much as the morph itself. They're sexy!!! :D

I'm working with a BHB het from his reduced pattern line & this is the boy who I'll be putting her to:

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...8/DSCN0434.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g9...8/DSCN0433.jpg

We Should be able to work the expression of reduced pattern through selective breeding. ;)

Its all about selective breeding, only BHB Reduced Pattern lineage for us! :)

Here's our BHB line bad boy!
http://www.reptilescanada.com/galler...0/Clown_1b.jpg

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Originally Posted by rabernet

What little I know about the reduced line clowns, because I happen to love the reduced clowns (who woulda thunk it? LOL) is that BHB has an extreme reduced pattern line of clowns.

Sean Bradley acquired one of his clowns and has selectively bred that animal to reduced pattern females (if I'm remembering the story correctly) and then raised up those hets and went on to produce some killer looking reduced clown offspring.

The hets from this particular line tend to be reduced patterned themselves, and very light in color. Heck, I think I love the hets as much as the morph itself. They're sexy!!! :D

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My het male is from Sean. I paid extra to buy one specifically from him.

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Originally Posted by RegiusCo

Its all about selective breeding, only BHB Reduced Pattern lineage for us! :)

Here's our BHB line bad boy!
http://www.reptilescanada.com/galler...0/Clown_1b.jpg

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Marc - that's hot!!!

Wow, some awesome examples of amazing reduced pattern clowns folks! And Marc! - we definitely need to talk at the Montreal expo next month. ;) I'll be sure to come over and introduce myself this time around. (I quietly stalked your booth a bit at the CRBE but I was poor so didn't want to waste your time when you were busy with others, heh.)

The two het clowns I have right now come from busier patterned males. And I don't mind the busy pattern at all. In fact, I wouldn't mind having two lines going. One reduced pattern and one quite heavily patterned.

I also agree that het clowns tend to almost have a different look to them. Mine have a really nice yellow tint to them.

All these clown pics are making me drool. I sure hope my hets produce a clown or 2 this year. By far my favorite morph, and the combos are just spectacular.

okay this is my het clown girl from Sean Bradley and she is majorly reduced and light in color. Her sire is their most reduced clown in their collection...

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l7.../100_3088a.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ladydragon

okay this is my het clown girl from Sean Bradley and she is majorly reduced and light in color. Her sire is their most reduced clown in their collection...

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l7.../100_3088a.jpg

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She's gourgeous Doris!

When you breed her let us know how the offspring turn out.

I would believe it's the same thing as the G.Stripe.

A full nice stripe (with no broken pattern) will tend to make more nice ones, but could also produce ones that have a broken stripe.

Same with the pied. Looks like the high white have a tendency to produce high white but they still produce low white (vice versa the low white can produce high white).

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I'll be sure to come over and introduce myself this time around. (I quietly stalked your booth a bit at the CRBE but I was poor so didn't want to waste your time when you were busy with others, heh.)

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Stephan, please do drop by, looking forward to meeting you, always fun talking shop and royals! :)

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Originally Posted by Mettle

She's gourgeous Doris!

When you breed her let us know how the offspring turn out.

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Thanx Stephan. When she gets to breeding weight I plan to have a het clown male to breed her with. But you'll definitely see pics. :D

So I got a picture of one of the sires of one of my hets. I don't know why I thought his pattern was very busy. It's not that super busy. Not reduced. Nice and in the middle:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6.../ClownBoy1.jpg

I really love the dots! Hopefully I can produce one with those dots on the side. That's pretty cool.

Stephan, Mykee got his Clown from Justin at O.C.D. and his sire is a smoking BHB Reduced Pattern and so, you have a shot at some Reduced Pattern Clowns as well down the road, great addition you have there Sir! :)

My male clown that i got from BHB is a In the middle as well. Tomorrow i'm receiving from him a female pastel het clown, and a het clown. Both females from him. I'll be sure to post some pics once i get them to show you what Brian's het's look like. I'll show you my Clown male i got from him too. He's not super reduced, but hes just like i like them and came from that super reduced clown everyone's talking about. (Brian told me himself.)