Opinion on co-ownership

A friend of mine is wanting to start breeding bp's and really wants to get something special but can not afford much right now. He was wondering if I would go in on one with him. He wants a mojave female which I am all for and we would both pay half and it would be in my care. My question is how should we go about splitting the clutch from it? Like should we just split profit/ babies or should we both get a pick and then go from there? I would be breeding it m\to my pastel male when it was of size/age. I just want some opinions on this from everyone.

Thanks
Tom

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Originally Posted by tattlife2001

A friend of mine is wanting to start breeding bp's and really wants to get something special but can not afford much right now. He was wondering if I would go in on one with him. He wants a mojave female which I am all for and we would both pay half and it would be in my care. My question is how should we go about splitting the clutch from it? Like should we just split profit/ babies or should we both get a pick and then go from there? I would be breeding it m\to my pastel male when it was of size/age. I just want some opinions on this from everyone.

Thanks
Tom

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To be honest it could be the biggest mistake of both of your lives.To many things could go wrong and then you both could end up hating each other.Lets see you could be doing all the work,paying for all the food then when it comes time to split babies he wants his fair share.This is just an example of what COULD happen.I would let him buy his own and you yours :gj:

I would think it depends mostly on your relationship with him. My mom and I recently went into a similar deal with her piebald. Since I'd be the primary caretaker and would own the male it's bred to, we decided that I would get first choice of clutches and split it down from there. If she ever really got into the snake breeding thing, she'd buy out my half of the snake and I'd leave her to her doings.

There's just some ground I'd cover - is he just splitting the upfront cost of the animal, or is he splitting the price of caging, feed, time, and electricity too? Granted for just one snake that's not very much, but they're things that can be brought up and rubbed in if the partnership goes sour.

Get everything in writing, too! Even with my mom we both got things in signed and in writing involving the piebald and put it in with my snake records. Dispute over a business deal isn't worth destroying a friendship when it could have been avoided with clear expectations of one another.

(Ohh, I got ninja'd by joe D:. Pretty much got my thoughts down much more concisely!)

We would have everything in writing and the feeding/housing and everything would be half and half. I breed my own rats so every other week he would pay me what I normally charge for a rat of whatever size it is feeding at the time. We have already agreed on all of that. I was just wanting to know peoples experience with this if anyone has had any. This would be a step into him starting out on his own he wants to first know he is doing the right thing and knows exactly what he is doing. He just purchased his first snake from me earlier today but has been learning from me for about 3 months with hands on and reading anything I throw at him. He just wants to be sure he is able to breed the snakes prior to shelling out the big bucks all alone and when he felt comfortable he would then purchase the other half of the snake from me... I am buying the front end lol... The only reason I am even considering it is because if anything goes sour with him being able to keep snakes or breed them I can always buy it from him as well plus I like.... LOVE teaching people about snakes whenever I can. My wife hates me for it sometimes because I am always showing her snakes and quizzin her and generally buggin her to death I know she sometimes wishes I was mute or she was deaf but she still loves me.

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Originally Posted by joepythons

To be honest it could be the biggest mistake of both of your lives.To many things could go wrong and then you both could end up hating each other.Lets see you could be doing all the work,paying for all the food then when it comes time to split babies he wants his fair share.This is just an example of what COULD happen.I would let him buy his own and you yours :gj:

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The mistake friends make is to do a verbal agreement.

You can do joint ventures, but put it in writing what each is going to do. Perhaps he should pay for the feed since the snake is staying with you & your electric is heating it... or whatever makes sense to you both. But talk it out write it down & it can work... & have a buy-out clause in case it doesn't.

Personally I would say it would be wiser to just have him pay you back for the snake, as a personal loan, over doing co-ownership. Then charge him for feeding while it's in your care, and worry about splitting the clutches later.

Or at least write up a contract, leave an option for him to buy your share of the snake off of you, and take it to a notary. But definitely don't do a verbal contract, and always have a way of getting out of a contract.

I had a verbal contract with a friend about creating a videogame (my game) and running the business (his end) but later realized he was bloody crazy (wanted to kill everyone who wasn't part of some cult he was starting). I was glad it was a verbal contract then :P

But verbal contracts are, as stated, a bad idea.

I am having my lawyer write one up for me it is going to cover everything from initial purchase to eventual buy out, feeding, heating, cleaning, watering, everything that can be thought of and then some made up stuff just to make sure all is covered lol. Thanks everyone for the informaion. I am still looking forward to seeing what other people have to say about this though.

Tom

Personally I would never do a co-ownership or even a partnership for that matter. In some ways it "could" be great and on the other hand it could be disasterous

Joined projects in the form of breeder loan where everything is written down yes but joint ownership, I would not recommend it.

If the animal belong to each of you 50/50 who will have physical custody?

Who will pay for the care (food, housing etc)?

Who would pay for vet care? Would it be 50/50? But what if the animal requires vet care due to the actions of the person who has physical custody? Who would pay for the bill? What if the animal dies?

Less face it a female Mojave is not that costly save up some money and buy one that will be yours and then do breeder loan with your friend if that is what you wish to do (it will be less of a headache in my opinion)

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Less face it a female Mojave is not that costly save up some money and buy one that will be yours and then do breeder loan with your friend if that is what you wish to do (it will be less of a headache in my opinion)

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Exactly. Save an extra $150 and buy the snake on your own. It will be much better for your longterm friendship. No matter how well you think you have everything figured out there WILL be a problem at some point and for a snake that only cost a few hundred dollars it is just not worth the hassle.

IF you have everything in writing, I think it could work, but what you would want to do is split the first clutch in such a fashion that he gets half the profit AND gets back his share of the investment, and then YOU own the snake in full. That makes his share an investment rather than partial ownership of the snake, per se. If it works, you can both do the same thing again and get HIM a snake. But put it ALL in writing, and have backup plans in case she doesn't lay or something else goes wrong.

Sounds like a bad idea in the making. Everyone already said the important stuff, Im just here to voice an opinion.

never mix business with pleasure
also never loan money to family or friends unless your willing to not be paid back

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Originally Posted by NorthernRegius

The mistake friends make is to do a verbal agreement.

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Couldn't agree more. Which is precisely why I always stress in a breeder loan situation, that it's important to have a written contract that clearly details everything - ESPECIALLY when doing a loan with a friend.

A well-written, signed contract removes any mis-understandings and hurt feelings and protects your friendship.

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Originally Posted by nixer

never mix business with pleasure
also never loan money to family or friends unless your willing to not be paid back

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Im going to 2nd, 3rd AND 4th this.

I am going to tell my story on how this has worked for me with a situation similar that im in.

Had a buddy outright buy snake, charged him a little more than the deal I actually got just for the fact that half of the price I got the animal from was because I have spent several thousand dollars with him in a year (like receive one snake and drop him a check in the mail to down pay on something I hadn't decided on yet) well the whole plan was he would take the snake, buy his food from me and at breeding season, I would then take the snake back and breed it and upon babies being hatched we would split the babies, keep what we wanted and sell the remaining, splitting everything down the middle. Well six months into it, I have fed the snake, taken care of the snake and still haven't came to an agreement on which one of my animals to breed her to, not the best deal in the world but getting into an arguement of what we could/should do isn't worth the hassle.

Contracts are definately a great idea, but the very least prepare yourself to lose in the whole situation.

Just my thoughts on the whole deal.

I am co-owner of my business. It works great for me and my business partner. We split all cost, cleaning, and profit right down the middle.

I have a similar thing going on with my parents. I am a student, had some bad personal issues, took care of them and once I refound my love of snakes have been absolutely awesome in backing my breeding plans. My parents are kinda on the wealthy side, but for example I needed a new rack and they were generous enough to front me the money to pay for a ARS 7030 which I am loving by the way. They have also paid for a lot of my snakes, and I plan to pay them back in full for the rack (it ended up being 2400 shipped, I've paid down 1k so far, and I am getting a job at school so that should be done in a few months). I am also going to give them a cut of what I sell from my first batch of hatchlings if I am lucky and good enough to breed and incubate them properly. I've been devouring tons and tons of info on all sorts of husbandry and breeding and incubating issues so I hope I get some success this season.

But yeah, except for the rack I have a more informal agreement with my parents. They were just happy that I finally found something I was passionate about, it helped get me out of my funk and I am back on track taking classes to get in to nursing school
(I already got a damn BA, but I am only going to need one year of classes before I can apply to actual nursing school; and I also had two years of law school before I dropped out [my god did I hate law school] and a nice chunk of student loan debt from the latter heh).


But I think the best thing in your situation would be to just front him the money for the snake. Partial ownership of a living creature (and hell, a lot of non-living things as well) can be the cause of some bad blood which you don't want to risk with a friend. So help him as much as you can, talk his ear off with what you know, but keep your resources separate. But say a breeding loan or stud service may be a better thing for you guys down the road. Thats much less likely to backfire.