breeding ?? inbreed ??

i know this might be a wierd ? but i was wondering if you can inbreed bp's would there be problems with doing that. I never see anyone talking about that just wondering any feed back is appreciated

It causes kinks.

Inbreeding in successive generations causes genetic mutations in all forms of life that reproduce sexually (genes from 2 parents as opposed to cloning) I believe.

Another prob are duckbilling but idk if this is directly linked to inbreeding or a similar defect to corcscrewing in spiders.

what do you mean by kinks

Google kinks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by herper55

It causes kinks.

---

i think the OP is looking for a more specific answer..

OP if you use the search function, there are a TON of threads on the subject of in or line breeding with snakes.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ght=inbreeding
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ght=inbreeding
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ght=inbreeding
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ght=inbreeding
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=line+breeding

I've read before that some corn snakes are on their 11th generation of line breeding in some cases and they are just beginning to see issues associated with that. Ball pythons aren't past 6 generations. But i cant remember the source, i'm sorry.

With inbreeding, there is always the possibility of passing along an unwanted gene with a wanted one. I've heard of breeders actually trading or selling off certain females or males in their collections and getting some new animals to get new blood into their collection every some-odd years.

Just because you line breed for a few generations dosen't automatically mean that your animals will hatch with no eyes, kinks or deformed heads. There are also other things that cause these problems like incubation problems, etc.

There isn't a "set" number of times to breed mother to son or father to daughter or brother to sister. Its really just something that you as a breeder would need to deal with.

Gehehehe

Inbreeding, for most animals, isn't really that bad. Inbreeding can give you several mutations with BPs which I really like. I believe you can only get the super forms by breeding co-dominant traits, though (ex: Pastels, Mojaves, Lessers. The super form of a Lesser would be a BEL, or also known as a Blue Eyed Leucistic. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong with the co-dominant thing..).

If you do inbreed BPs, inbreeding only a few times (generation after generation, like offspring to mother or father or brother to sister) is just fine, but if you keep on inbreeding generation after generation the snakes will start to get dumber and dumber as you keep on inbreeding, which can also result in deformities like kinks or missing eyes, and that kind of stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

Inbreeding, for most animals, isn't really that bad. Inbreeding can give you several mutations with BPs which I really like. I believe you can only get the super forms by breeding co-dominant traits, though (ex: Pastels, Mojaves, Lessers. The super form of a Lesser would be a BEL, or also known as a Blue Eyed Leucistic. Anyone correct me if I'm wrong with the co-dominant thing..).

---

You can breed two completely unrelated fires together to get a black eyed leucistic, same goes for lessers and pastels, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cinderbird

You can breed two completely unrelated fires together to get a black eyed leucistic, same goes for lessers and pastels, etc.

---

Well ya, but I was just giving some examples of inbreeding and creating the super forms from inbreeding.

Man I would love to have a BEL in my collection, and a low white Pied xD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cinderbird

You can breed two completely unrelated fires together to get a black eyed leucistic, same goes for lessers and pastels, etc.

---

Except that plenty of morphs can only be traced back to a single individual

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mainbutter

Except that plenty of morphs can only be traced back to a single individual

---

But when you've taken the original and bred it to several normals, you get genetic diversity. ;) Genetic diversity is what you want when breeding.

Breeding animals with the same genetic material over several generations ( or even one, in some cases!) can sometimes lead to the visible forms of genetic deformities ( Visible, and Not quite so visible*internal stuff that you wouldnt even dream of*) if done incorrectly, or without careful thought in the process ( or even WITH careful thought/correctly).

Inbreeding animals should be done with selective care and careful monitoring, as animals can be prone to weaker immune systems( or stronger...depending on the mutations brought forth by the breeding) , shorter lifespans ( or longer, depending on the mutations brought forth by the breeding) and so on and so forth.

Inbreeding can work both ways. But GENERALLY, in very wide stroking basic terms, it is not usually not considered "good", as you are limiting the genepool in that specific generation of animals. ( Many responsible people who inbreed for a specific trait, also then outcross those lines to other unrelated animals to then strengthen the bloodlines) It may be the faster route to a color mutation, but at the same time, could mean the appearance of a less than desirable mutation along with that color mutation, such as highly visible things like Kinking, Wobbling, Spinning, Loss of Motor Control, Mal-formed scales ( Or none at all!), No Eyes and so forth. These are just examples, are are not always caused by inbreeding for a specific trait, and sometimes, these deformities are linked with the mutation being bred for itself.

It should be done with considerable care, and lots of time devoted to keeping bloodlines strong. ( Its too bad too many people are completely unwilling to follow this fairly common knowledge of the subject, just to make a buck, and due to lack of space to keep such a project at hand, I find it unfortunate really.) and while many people do practice this method of breeding responsibly, others still do not and i cant help but wonder at what will become of the animals in captivity many many years from now?

The constant inbreeding of ANY animal will eventually cause some type of genetic anomaly to occur. Sometimes its a color mutation, or pattern abberency, and other times there is some other consequence, like beaking in super cinnamons(I think), missing eyes in albinos, or severe kinks in caramel albinos. In dogs inbreeding has caused a lot of auto immune diseases to surface in different breeds. So to answer your question continued in breeding to fix traits will eventually lead to issues, some severe and some not so. I don't think that we are seeing severe problems yet. Enought wild blood is still collected and used is breeding programs. And anything different coming from the wild is probably the result of a spontaneous mutation( like the candy ball)..We know about beaking, and kinking, missing eyes ect., and I have heard anecdotaly of lines being prone to R/I's(weakened immune systems). Which no breeder out there will ever admit to. But this is why as a breeder you must assemble as diverse a breeding group as possible, even going so far as trying to find out what locality your wild caught/hatched came from. Unfortunately that is almost impossible, unless you deal directly with your importers. And thats just for your normals. As for your morphs you really have to research where they came from and what they go back to.
Mike