Tiger BP's... Any Experts?

This is going to be a kind of 2 part post. A while back I bought what was labeled as a "Tiger" BP. I have had almost no luck so far finding any info or pics of them. The only thing I found out was that originally two different breeders produced essentially the same morph. One named it Woma and the other called it Tiger. Mine looks nothing like a Woma except for a reduced pattern. I have only seen a pic of one other BP labeled as a Tiger for sale on KS that looks similar to mine. Basically I'm trying to find out if there is any info on what traits make it a Tiger and what pairing it comes from. I'm starting to think it's just a reduced pattern mutt, because it's clearly not a Woma and it also doesn't really fit the description of the True and Genetic Reduced Patterns. Here are some pics of what I got. One overhead, one side and sort of a partial belly shot (the only one I got on my work comp.) As always, any info, responses, or links are appreciated...

Rob

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/hpim0174.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/hpim0180.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/pict0060.jpg

Try Connie at Pythonica she is the only one in Canada other than myself working with them. She is the one I got my proven pair from and hope to make Tiger Diesels this up coming season. As far as I know they are Dominant, the Super form A.K.A Diesel Tiger is Co-Dominant

http://www.pythonica.ca/

There's also the Jolliff line Tiger. I have a clutch in the incubator, due to hatch in the next 6-10 days.

I think it might be the same line, she calls them Oscar Tiger, she also works with what she calls Banana Tigers, I have an 2005 Female Oscar Tiger and 2006 Male Pastel Oscar Tiger

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Originally Posted by rabernet

There's also the Jolliff line Tiger. I have a clutch in the incubator, due to hatch in the next 6-10 days.

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And I have a Jolliff Axanthic Tiger which are both his line, they have a proven super form as well.

What you have looks like a reduced but not necessarily a tiger.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

And I have a Jolliff Axanthic Tiger which are both his line, they have a proven super form as well.

What you have looks like a reduced but not necessarily a tiger.

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Any pics??

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Originally Posted by Toronto Python Gurus

Any pics??

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http://leon2ky.com/leon/072509/jolli...anthic_001.jpg

http://leon2ky.com/leon/072509/jolli...anthic_002.jpg

http://leon2ky.com/leon/072509/jolli...anthic_003.jpg

http://leon2ky.com/leon/072509/jolli...anthic_004.jpg

Awesome thanks!!

First off....is your animal captive bred or imported? Do you know where it came from?
If it came from a breeder, she or he should be able to shed some light. If it was imported, the you are going have to do the work and answer your own questions;)

"Tiger" is a tough one......

It is one of the morphs/variants of ball pythons that can be very confusing. The appearance of genetic ones can be variable. More than one breeder has tiger stock......stock that is not related.....stock that may or may not even be the same mutation. In other words, what one breeder calls a tiger another breeder may not....even though both may have "genetic tigers".

To me the tiger morph needs to be "overhauled." I'm sure it will happen with time.

Years ago, when the proven morphs were limited to albino, pastel, axanthic, and a FEW others, many imported ball pythons with odd patterns were lumped into rather generic categories: granites, jungles, labyrinths, high gold, reduced pattern, banded, fancy normal, etc. These generic categories were overhauled over the years and are still being overhauled today.

Some of these odd balls proved to be genetic and were renamed to distinguish them from the unproven bp's in the generic categories.

I think this is what needs to happen with tigers. It will take some time for breeders to figure out what they have. After all, if one breeder breeds his/her tigers together and produces reduced offspring while another breeds their tigers and produces a tricked out super form or homozygous form........shouldn't one of the "tigers" be renamed?

There is a tiger line associated with Joliff axanthics. Casey Lazik has something associated with his hypo animals that he is calling Lazik Tigers. I see ads in the classifieds where breeders claim to have genetic reduced pattern bp's.......called tigers. There is some cool tiger stuff being worked out in Canada.
Are they all the same mutation? I don't think so. I guess time will tell:)

Hope this helps.

Hi,

Isn't there also a european line called tigers that is recesive?

I think I saw it on a german breeders website once. :confused:


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Isn't there also a european line called tigers that is recesive?

I think I saw it on a german breeders website once. :confused:


dr del

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SEE???? :frustrate

I have no idea about the European line but I don't doubt it.

Hi,

I think this was the site I saw them on but can't find the info on genetics about them now. :rolleyes:


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

I think this was the site I saw them on but can't find the info on genetics about them now. :rolleyes:


dr del

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I don't know anything about the animal that you posted a link to but I know Stephan (sp) gets a bunch of cool stuff from Africa every year.:confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joe_Compel

First off....is your animal captive bred or imported? Do you know where it came from?
If it came from a breeder, she or he should be able to shed some light. If it was imported, the you are going have to do the work and answer your own questions;)

"Tiger" is a tough one......

It is one of the morphs/variants of ball pythons that can be very confusing. The appearance of genetic ones can be variable. More than one breeder has tiger stock......stock that is not related.....stock that may or may not even be the same mutation. In other words, what one breeder calls a tiger another breeder may not....even though both may have "genetic tigers".

To me the tiger morph needs to be "overhauled." I'm sure it will happen with time.

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Once I found there wasn't much info or pics of them I figured it was just a generic term. The only thing I found really was a page on Ralph Davis's website:

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/co...all_python.asp

I suspect that what happened was originally the Genetic and True reduced patterns were called "Tigers", however, over the last few years, the term "Tiger", and as I have discovered in searching around, the term "Jaguar" are basically being used to describe a snake with a reduced pattern that doesn't fall into one of the morph categories.

As for where he came from? I don't know. I got him from a small breeder who took him on trade from the original owners. No paperwork. The main reason I got him is because I am a fan of the reduced patterns and I had went to the show with the intention of getting a Woma Ball, but the only 2 there were being sold by LLL, and their staff didn't impress me. I had pretty much settled on a Dumerils boa until I saw this guy.

I saw a snake on a reptile dealers website described as a "Jaguar" that I like. Nice reduced patterns, however, researching Jaguar balls, I found that this term is used more synonymously with the Jungle ball, which has nothing to do with a reduced pattern. It has a "busy' pattern with a light head patch, light eyes, and freckles or spots around the mouth. So, I think Jaguar is another term that may be misused, or generally applied to several snakes, depending on who you ask. Thanks for all the input...


Rob

I'm working with a few lines of tigers now:
Banana Tigers (European Line)
Oscar Tigers (First Produced by Connie @ Pythonica)
Diesel Tigers (super form Tigers)
Super Diesel Tigers (super form of Diesel Tigers)