Yea Yea, 'Another' cage/setup question

Hi Forum,

So I’ve browsed multiple forums and done many “google searches” to figure out the many details to owning a Ball Python. Well I finally lived up to all my research and went to my local reptile specialist and found me a new baby Ball Python. Yet I find myself coming up with yet more heating and housing questions.

Yes, I know there is a ton of other threads out there with all the details of my questions, but many tend to contradict each other a lot of the time too.. So, being new to owning a snake (owned iguanas when I was younger) I want to make sure that I have everything setup properly for my new baby….

Well here goes…
I have a 20 gal tank (yea I know it’s a little large for a baby) with a screened top
75 watt infrared bulb w/ holder
Zoo-Med UTH for a 20 gal tank (6x8 I believe)
Zoo-Med Rheostat (w/ 2 outlets)
24 hr timer (30 min minimum intervals)
Digital thermometer/ hygrometer w/ probe under warm hide
Floating thermometer on cool side floor
Analogue hygrometer
Large wood branch going across entire tank
Cardboard box hide on cool side
Half-log hide on warm side (1/3 of the UTH is under this)
Water bowl
And I am using aspen shavings

Now the questions:
1. The temp is about 80-85 on the cool side, and I try to keep it about 90 on the warm side. Are these temps correct?

2. What would be the best way as far as setting up a minimal hassle environment (i.e. not having to adjust all the time)?

3. Can Ball Pythons see infrared light or not? Some say yes others no. When I turn on his IR light when it is dark he will jump.. Which leads me to think he can see it so should his IR light be turned off for sure at night?

4. Also he is in a spare bedroom, which is somewhat an office with 2 computers (adding to temps in the room), where light does come thru the window, so is it necessary to “PROVIDE” a day/night cycle for him? Or is the window enough?

5. He is staying in his cool hide only. At first I only had the half log and he stayed there. Once I added the cool hide (cardboard), he has remained there. I know he may just not be adjusted yet, so just wondering if I’m over worrying.

He has eaten one meal already so I know that is a good thing. He has eaten both live and F/T before, so I am hoping he maintains his appetite!

I am aware that this information may be available if I were searching, but reading alone would not be enough assurance since it is very contradictory. Much thanks in advance in any help and suggestions. Just want to make sure that everything is where it should so he has a long healthy life. 

Thanks!

Bishop

You need to have two identical hides... The half log hide is not sufficient they need to feel secure and havin to entrances robs them of security

I agree, try to get 2 hides that cover him on all sides. To get them for cheap use the plastic flower pot bases with a hole drilled on the top.
Also, you might want to cover some of that screen top inorder to keep some of the humidity in.
I keep my temps 82-84 on the cool side and 91-93 on the warm side.

Your snake would choose security over thermal regulation and that is no good. 2 closed in hides are a must.

I have the half log up aginst the glass and the glass is covered where it mets together. Once i realized that he prefered the smaller opening of the cardboard box i added a piece of cardboard with a smal hole cut out the bottom area, making it somewhat similar to the other hide on the cool side.

thanks for the tip on covering the screen. i do cover the screen with a towel, and moisten it every morning, to maintain the humidity of 50-60.

much thanks on the tips!

No problem...post some pics!!!

Snakes cannot see the infared light! He probaly jumped because of the noise! A day/night light cycle is not mandatory specially since you natural daylight! I have a 6 week old ball and I got him a half log to start but when I removed it and got too identical tight hides, he ate better was not stressed! You can tell because he sleeps more and does not wonder around all night! Just use another carboard box on the warm side and he might start sleeping there!

1- Yes your temps are correct and are suitable for a Ball python.

2- I recommend getting a thermostat. They are great at controlling the temps and keeping them at a stable temp. If you do get a thermostat, I recommend setting it at 92F.

3- No, they cannot see the infrared light in the enclosure. I know your snake may jump, but it may have gotten startled once you turned it on.

4- Providing a day and night cicle for him would be best. When the light outside shine in through my window, normally it shines through all of the snake tanks. I suggest keeping the light on for 12 hours and off for 12 hours. When it's off for 12 hours, I recommend turning on the UTH.

5- Provide two identical hides as stated in posts before. Half log hides do not make them feel that secure, so buying one of those rock formation hides would do well but make sure it does not have two enterances. You can also create your own hides by using a plastic container, dog/cat dishes, or plant pots. Any of those do just fine, but when creating the enterance make sure it's big enough just so the snake can fit through so it isn't a large opening.

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

Any of those do just fine, but when creating the enterance make sure it's big enough just so the snake can fit through so it isn't a large opening.

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Nope! Make sure the snake has enough room in the opening so that it can double back and not get stuck. Snakes have died by getting stuck!

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Originally Posted by monk90222

Nope! Make sure the snake has enough room in the opening so that it can double back and not get stuck. Snakes have died by getting stuck!

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Totally forgot about that lol. Ya it could happen from a snake getting stuck. Sorry about that, it totally slipped outta my mind :]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...o/CIMG2625.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...o/CIMG2627.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...o/CIMG2628.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...o/CIMG2629.jpg
the "DP" hide was just added to see if he might be interested since its similar and smaller.

Ya I would take out the half log hide since you have two similar hides. Keep in mind that the cardboard hides would need to be replaced often.

He does seem to already sleep alot. the most he does when he comes out is look around a little, (comes out about 1/4 to 1/3 of his body) go to his water dish, then slide back in his hide.

I would plan on changing the cardboard ones to a more durable material later, they are more of a temp solutions while im trying to get everything else dialed in.

thanks about the "double back" tip. i think ive seen him do this on his cool hide, but it just lifted up.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

He does seem to already sleep alot. the most he does when he comes out is look around a little, (comes out about 1/4 to 1/3 of his body) go to his water dish, then slide back in his hide.

I would plan on changing the cardboard ones to a more durable material later, they are more of a temp solutions while im trying to get everything else dialed in.

thanks about the "double back" tip. i think ive seen him do this on his cool hide, but it just lifted up.

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Ball pythons hide most of the time during the day since they are nocturnal. You will mainly see your snake slither around at night :]. The odd thing is that my boa never really comes out at night. When she does she just goes under the substrate, but when she does come out only 1/3 of her body sticks out and she just sits there.

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

2- I recommend getting a thermostat. They are great at controlling the temps and keeping them at a stable temp. If you do get a thermostat, I recommend setting it at 92F.

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What would be the recommended setup for the thermostat? Would it be able to operate both the heat lamp and the UTH? Would it be a good idea to set the lamp up on a timer so that it is not on during the night to aid in the day/ night cycle? Also the placement of the probe? Im assuming would be in the "warm hide" correct? or between the glass and UTH under the tank? (like i said, I hear many differnt things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

4- Providing a day and night cicle for him would be best. When the light outside shine in through my window, normally it shines through all of the snake tanks. I suggest keeping the light on for 12 hours and off for 12 hours. When it's off for 12 hours, I recommend turning on the UTH.

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This also may seem like a lame question, but it is a concern of mine. When it is night time and the lights are out in the room, (no heat lamp either) if you had to walk into the room and turn the light on, would this startle or "confuse" the BPs day/night? And would he later get used to this happening and it not bother him?

Much Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bishop

What would be the recommended setup for the thermostat? Would it be able to operate both the heat lamp and the UTH? Would it be a good idea to set the lamp up on a timer so that it is not on during the night to aid in the day/ night cycle? Also the placement of the probe? Im assuming would be in the "warm hide" correct? or between the glass and UTH under the tank? (like i said, I hear many differnt things.

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Yes, it would be able to control both the lamp and the UTH. You can set the lamp on a timer if you wanted to, but you could just turn it off yourself but a timer would be good because it would be more accurate with timing. The best place to place the probe would be under the substrate right on top of where the middle of the UTH is.

Quote:

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This also may seem like a lame question, but it is a concern of mine. When it is night time and the lights are out in the room, (no heat lamp either) if you had to walk into the room and turn the light on, would this startle or "confuse" the BPs day/night? And would he later get used to this happening and it not bother him?

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It would mess up the day and night cycle too much. You can keep it on, and the snake wouldn't come out until a while after the light is turned off. My snakes get used to it, and know when it's time to come out. I don't leave my room lamp on for long though because I don't normally need it if I'm watching tv lol.

Hi,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bishop

What would be the recommended setup for the thermostat? Would it be able to operate both the heat lamp and the UTH?

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It depends on a few factors - if you are using an on/ off thermostat the light turning on and off is likely to do your head in as well as shorten the life of the bulb.

Proportional thermostats can be used on bulbs just fine but if you can get the temps right with only the UTH it would probably be better. I would try that first once you have looked at the tank treatments like foil on the top and insulating the sides and back on the tank.

A lot of our advice will vary depending on how stable your room temperatures are though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Would it be a good idea to set the lamp up on a timer so that it is not on during the night to aid in the day/ night cycle? Also the placement of the probe? Im assuming would be in the "warm hide" correct? or between the glass and UTH under the tank? (like i said, I hear many differnt things.

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If you are using a red light to provide the temps then no turning it off is not a good idea - they really don't need a change in temps between night and day unless you are conditioning them for breeding and possibly not even then. :)

If it is a white light however then yes it needs to be turned off to give a day night cycle (though to be honest most of the time the ambient room light from windows etc will do that perfectly well ) as leaving a white light burning 24/7 could be stressful.

On the probe question;

Thermostat probes should go between the UTH and the bottom of the tank to stop the snake messing on it/ with it which could cause it to overheat the tank and burn/ kill the animal inside.

Thermometer probes should be placed under the substrate inside the warm end hide to make sure that doesn't get above 95f and then moved to the top of the substrate inside the hide to check the temps are at around 90-94f (usually done by adjusting the depth/ type of the substrate ) and after that can be put inside the cool end hide to make sure that is around 80-83f.

After that the themometer can be placed in the warm end hide again just so you can check nothing is going wrong. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bishop

This also may seem like a lame question, but it is a concern of mine. When it is night time and the lights are out in the room, (no heat lamp either) if you had to walk into the room and turn the light on, would this startle or "confuse" the BPs day/night? And would he later get used to this happening and it not bother him?

Much Thanks

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They tend to get surprised and scoot back in their hides if they are out but it doesn't mess up their day/ night cycle or anything that I have noticed. :gj:

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

Yes, it would be able to control both the lamp and the UTH. You can set the lamp on a timer if you wanted to, but you could just turn it off yourself but a timer would be good because it would be more accurate with timing. The best place to place the probe would be under the substrate right on top of where the middle of the UTH is.

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See above. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

It would mess up the day and night cycle too much. You can keep it on, and the snake wouldn't come out until a while after the light is turned off. My snakes get used to it, and know when it's time to come out. I don't leave my room lamp on for long though because I don't normally need it if I'm watching tv lol.

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I don't think he was talking about it being on for hours at a time - just for a visit to the room.


dr del