damn bp wont eat

trying to feed him for the first time, but he just wont eat, it is a f/t hopper and he just looks at it and slithers away , I put him in a bucket at first and dangled it in his area and he kind of struck at it but missed and then after that he couldnt be bothered. I put him back in his viv and tried leaving it in there with him for like 30 minutes but it is still sitting there untouched.

Should I take it out and forget about it?
I was really hoping his first feeding would go well damn it!

How long have you had him? What are you housing him in (size of enclosure)? How old is he? What was his previous owner feeding him? Live or f/t? If he's a baby, he probably still needs the stimulation of live feedings. How often have you been handling him? Is he settled in his enclosure or does he constantly roam?

It's either a husbandry issue that needs to be fixed, or he's never been presented with f/t before.

I have had him since monday.
He is in a 10 g viv with aspen bedding, a uth, hide and waterdish.
I believe he was born june or july.
the breeder fed them live
I have held him once everyday
he roamed a ton when i got him on monday, I put him in a nice quiet room where noone is around and it is quiet( i moved him yesterday) and since then he has been moving around his cage still but not as frantically.

aslo it should be noted that he was due to feed the day after I got him but the breeder said to wait a week and then feed him. so I am trying a little earlier than she suggested but i figured he must be hungry and I dont want the little guy to starve....

OK - how are you measuring your temps? With a digital device or the stick on analog dials? What exactly are your temps on the warm and cool sides? Are his hides snug hides that he can feel touching him on all sides?

STOP handling him until after he's eaten for you. He needs at least a week, maybe even two to acclimate to his new home - with no handling.

Offer food in his enclosure, not in a separate feeding enclosure.

Offer live, not f/t, since he's never had f/t yet. You can do the switch later.

Constant roaming, even if not frantic, but not ever settling into a hide for most of the daylight hours is a stressed out animal.

You can try filling his enclosure with loosely crumpled newspaper filled to the brim to help settle him - so that he feels something touching him on all sides.

After a week, drop in a live hopper mouse and walk away. Check back in 30 mins and it should be gone.

Start weaning him off the paper, one or two pieces every few days.

Newspaper isn't pretty, I know - but your goal here is to acclimate your animal and getting him feeding with you. Pretty AND handling can come later.

hey I really appreciate your help, just a couple questions to make sure I understand what your saying here.

1- I heard that it makes a snake more aggresive towards humans when you feed in its enclosure and when I got my first corn snake a while back the people on the corn snake forums were freaking out about it. I will take your advise though.

2-you want me to fill the viv itself with crumpled newspaper????? sounds interesting, what about around the water dish??

3- after another week from now or on tuesday when I was supposed to feed him?

4- I wont handle him anymore for 2 weeks, I just dont want 2 weeks to come and I go to grab him and he strikes at me and stuff.


Thanks for your help.

on a side note, he does sleep in his hide all day during the daylight hours

?????????? so about that newspaper...... what do i do around the water dish?

I'd try to make a mini fort around the waterbowl. Not sure how Robin has done it though, she seems to be the expert on this newspaper stuff! ;)

I had the same problem, and so my newspaper doesn't go all the way to the top, just one layer on the bottom. Those immediately around the water bowl are more firmly bunched up so that nothing loose is flapping into the water. Works great!

mmmk, so how long now should I wait until I attempt feeding him a live mouse? on tuesday it will be 2 weeks since he's eaten.

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Originally Posted by armbarvictim

hey I really appreciate your help, just a couple questions to make sure I understand what your saying here.

1- I heard that it makes a snake more aggresive towards humans when you feed in its enclosure and when I got my first corn snake a while back the people on the corn snake forums were freaking out about it. I will take your advise though.

2-you want me to fill the viv itself with crumpled newspaper????? sounds interesting, what about around the water dish??

3- after another week from now or on tuesday when I was supposed to feed him?

4- I wont handle him anymore for 2 weeks, I just dont want 2 weeks to come and I go to grab him and he strikes at me and stuff.


Thanks for your help.

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1. Myth.
2. Yes, it helps them feel more secure. Also cover the sides and back of the viv with black paper or a screen of some sort to make it more enclosed.
3. Wait a week of completely leaving him alone before attempting to feed him.
4. If he's trying to bite you, it's not because you haven't been handling him. In my experience, 2 weeks is not enough time for a snake to turn aggressive from non-handling. You have to expect to get bitten though, it happens at least once to everyone who owns a snake.

2 weeks is not a long time without food. I've had snakes go a few months without eating and not lose any weight.

well getting bitten wouldn't be the worst thing in the world it would just scare the snot out of me.

can't the mouse injure my snake though?

When does a snake usually bite? would it bite you if you were just handling them or is it usually when you reach in or???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by armbarvictim

well getting bitten wouldn't be the worst thing in the world it would just scare the snot out of me.

can't the mouse injure my snake though?

When does a snake usually bite? would it bite you if you were just handling them or is it usually when you reach in or???

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Not likely. If your worried about it, just keep an eye on him while he eats.
A bite is not bad. The initial scare of the strike is usually worse then the bite itself.
Bites while handling are rare. You should be able to learn their body language with time, and know if they're upset enough for you to put them back. Generally they'll bite if you put your hand in their cage, just out of instinct. You'll also learn how to avoid that by picking them up from behind or with their hide.

well I usually pick him up by opening the top of the viv and letting him climb out when hes ready. once he starts coming out I pick him up, does this seem like it would help my chances?

You need to have two hides, one on the cool side and one on the hot side! Get an identical one like the one you already have so he will pick the comfort over his favorite one. The one you are using is a great hide! Be patient! My snake was born in July and has not eaten yet! It has been 3 weeks! Leave him alone for a week then try again and keep going through that cycle until he eats!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by armbarvictim

hey I really appreciate your help, just a couple questions to make sure I understand what your saying here.

1- I heard that it makes a snake more aggresive towards humans when you feed in its enclosure and when I got my first corn snake a while back the people on the corn snake forums were freaking out about it. I will take your advise though.

2-you want me to fill the viv itself with crumpled newspaper????? sounds interesting, what about around the water dish??

3- after another week from now or on tuesday when I was supposed to feed him?

4- I wont handle him anymore for 2 weeks, I just dont want 2 weeks to come and I go to grab him and he strikes at me and stuff.


Thanks for your help.

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I am so sorry - I had gone to the bedroom before you replied. I see others have also replied with great answers, but I will also give you my responses.

1) I have ~40 ball pythons that have never fed in separate enclosures. I also keep my rat rack literally 1 step away from the snakes in the same room. I have never had one of them mistake me for food on non-feeding days. I have made the mistake of going through the tubs in the same order that I do on feeding day one day checking for something, which triggered a feed response on a big girl who came flying out at me from her tub and nailed me, but that's part of keeping snakes, and it was an error on my part for forgetting how well I'd conditioned my animals on the routines that I follow on feeding day.

But - you're going to be going into your snake's enclosure for handling, for changing water, for spot cleaning, many times during the week. There's no reason for him to think he's going to get fed every time.

You can condition him on feeding day by pre-scenting (place the holding container with the live prey on top of the enclosure for 30 mins), then tapping on one side of the enclosure like three knocks and then dropping the prey in on the opposite end of the enclosure.

With a species as inherently private and shy as a ball python, putting them in a separate feeding enclosure could rattle them enough that they won't eat. Some handle it just fine, but others don't and prefer to ambush hunt from their hides (this also protects their bodies and makes them feel more secure).

2) yes, fill the viv to the very top with crumpled newspaper. You can leave a space around the water dish, but on each side of the water dish, fill to the rim (assuming the water dish is in the middle).

3) What day of the week is going to be most convenient for you to feed? It doesn't have to be Tuesday. Pick a day of the week and give at least 1 week, and then the number of days to get to the day you choose for feeding. He's had meals at the breeders, and he's designed to some period of time without food, so he won't starve. And if he has time to build up a bit of hunger, you're more likely to have success on feeding day - although most babies, once their husbandry is correct, have amazing feed responses. Which is why I believe his refusal was either husbandry that needs to be fixed, stress from not being acclimated, and because he has no clue what f/t food is. And/or a combination of the three. Does NOT make you a bad owner, just means that you are still in the learning process, and we're here to help!

4) I don't think you'll have the problem. As you grow with your animal, you'll learn to read his body language. There's a difference in a relaxed curl of the neck from observing its surroundings and a tight, intense S curl of the neck right before a strike (either feeding or fear based).

I'd recommend when he's fed successfully for you, and you've allowed him to settle, just take the lid off, have a roll of paper towels, so that you can just lightly touch him on his head if you fear he's in strike mood (this snaps him out of the instinctive response) and just pick him right on up.

You're going to do fine and he'll no longer be your damn bp! :D (sorry, I had to kid you about that!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by armbarvictim

well getting bitten wouldn't be the worst thing in the world it would just scare the snot out of me.

can't the mouse injure my snake though?

When does a snake usually bite? would it bite you if you were just handling them or is it usually when you reach in or???

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A hopper mouse still has relatively small teeth that haven't completely hardened yet. I've personally fed over 5000 live prey items from rat pinkies up to small medium rats. When you follow routines, and you condition your animal(s) when it's feeding time, and they are primed and ready for their food to come, they are very efficient hunters. Just the process of constriction causes the prey to open their mouths to try to breath. In all those feedings, I've personally never had any significant injuries to my animals. And probably in 10 instances there has been a small scratch that didn't cause me any concern. Now - this is what I do for MY animals, and I personally don't feed prey that I feel is too large for them to handle. I would never offer even my largest girls a large or jumbo rat (in live condition). The only animal that I feed f/t to is my kingsnake, and that's because I don't keep mice (and that's what he feeds on) and while he can kill his prey, he's not quite as efficient as the ball pythons, and he's gotten nicked a time or two. And he readily accepts f/t.

I've said all that to say, in MY experience, I've not experienced any compelling reason to switch mine to f/t. I don't have a lot of freezer space to keep frozen prey for my crew, so live works best for me, with what for ME, is a nominal risk. Divide 10 by 5000 for the overall statistical odds of injury in my own small pool of data.

Each owner needs to decide for themselves whether live, pre-killed or f/t is the best choice for them and their animals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by armbarvictim

on a side note, he does sleep in his hide all day during the daylight hours

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That is good! Does he have one hide or two? He should have one on the cool end and one on the warm end so he has a place to retreat when he's choosing to thermo-regulate.

Also, I didn't see where you said what his temps are on each side, and how you are measuring temps. What are you using for heat? A UTH (under tank heater), lamp or combo of both. Do you have your UTH on a dimmer, rheostat or thermostat to prevent it from getting too hot?

I typed this out for another person on the forums a couple days ago. Figured i copy it from that post and post it here. I was kinda in the same boat. I just got my first BP about a month ago and he wouldnt feed the first time. Well heres what i did.

When i got my BP from the breeder he said he should switch over to F/T easy since he was such an aggressive feeder with the live. I got mine and about a week or two later i offered him a F/T weanling mouse. This one was white. He wasnt interested at all. Was doing the same thing as yours, just trying to get out of the tub. I was a little worried that he wasnt feeding ( i know their fincky, but i just worry a little more than normal with my animals ) So i covered the sides of his tub, turned up his heatpad and left him alone for about five days. Then. 5 days later, I grabbed a black mouse, Thawed if for a few hours adn then i put it on his heat pad for about 20-30 minutes to get it to body temperature. Then i put him in his feeding tub with paper towels for a subtrate. I grabbed the mouse between its shoulder blades and started to parade it around. In about 3 seconds he struck, but didnt bite and grab it. Then i paraded it for about 5 more seconds and he eagerly grabbed it.

My BP tends to take the black mice a little more readily than the white. Granted ive only fed him four times, its just what ive noticed. The last time i fed him i uncovered just the front of his living tub. Hes doing great now and i get to feed him again this weekend. The last time i put him in his tub, he knew it was feeding time right away. Started to get in the feeding postion and i didnt even have to parade the mouse. He just grabbed it.

Oh and i covered the sides of his feeding tub with paper towels and put his heating pad underneath half of his feeding tub. Once hes eaten i give him a hide in the feeding tub and leave him for about an hour to make sure hes got it down nice and good. I know im no expert and by no means do i claim to be. More of an loudmouth, as you can see. But i hope he eats soon.

you guys are awesome! Thanks for the help I really sincerely appreciate it all. Well I cover the sides and back of the viv with black construction paper and am going to put the newspaper in right away.

I have a thermometer with a hydrometer combo digital thingy majigy and I put the thermometer probe under the substrate(aspen) where the uth is. I put the humidity probe in the middle of the glass on the back wall of the tank.


I also keep a heat lamp on about 8 inches above the viv, pointed around the middle of the back wall. I turn it off at night time

I am not sure if I have room for another identical hide in the viv, here is what it looks like

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../7/2/4/514.jpg

I keep a damp towel on top to keep the humidity around 50-60 percent in the viv at all times, as I dont want to mist it too too often due to bacteria growth.


What type of bedding should I use if I will be feeding in the viv, as it seems aspen could be digested pretty easily and that cant be great for him.

Also what temp should the uth be at to avoid burns?

There's plenty of room in there for another hide - in the front right! :D

A wee bit of aspen won't hurt them if they ingest it - I fed on aspen all the time, until I switched to paper. I didn't switch because of feeding, but because it's just much easier to maintain with the number of animals that I have, and I hated pulling out the vacuum cleaner every time I worked with the snakes.

Put the probe of your thermometer on top of the substrate inside the warm side hide. You want to measure the temps where your animal is actually laying. You want the temps to be about 88-90 degrees on top of the substrate. Your aspen is a bit thick, so it may be hard to heat through all of that. You probably only need about 1/2 of that.

ahhhh ok i will do that

One thing you need to learn when it comes to these pets is patience. Believe it or not, these snakes can go for a very long time without eating. The key is to ensure their viv's are adequate and equipped appropriately. Each python adjusts to their new surroundings at their own pace. Some adjust quickly and others adjust a little slower. Just make sure you have your setup done right and fully equipped the way it needs to be to ensure the best environment possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by armbarvictim

you guys are awesome! Thanks for the help I really sincerely appreciate it all. Well I cover the sides and back of the viv with black construction paper and am going to put the newspaper in right away.

I have a thermometer with a hydrometer combo digital thingy majigy and I put the thermometer probe under the substrate(aspen) where the uth is. I put the humidity probe in the middle of the glass on the back wall of the tank.


I also keep a heat lamp on about 8 inches above the viv, pointed around the middle of the back wall. I turn it off at night time

I am not sure if I have room for another identical hide in the viv, here is what it looks like

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../7/2/4/514.jpg

I keep a damp towel on top to keep the humidity around 50-60 percent in the viv at all times, as I dont want to mist it too too often due to bacteria growth.


What type of bedding should I use if I will be feeding in the viv, as it seems aspen could be digested pretty easily and that cant be great for him.

Also what temp should the uth be at to avoid burns?

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Compare that to when I started out and that ball is having a Ball :P

I did so many wrong things to my first poor BP.... sometimes when Im holding her, I stare at her and say "Im soooooooo sorry" LOL!

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Originally Posted by Danounet

I did so many wrong things to my first poor BP.... sometimes when Im holding her, I stare at her and say "Im soooooooo sorry" LOL!

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Amazing that they survive our first weeks of newbie-ness, eh? They must be hardier critters than we give them credit for, LOL!

Re. the depth of aspen, I spent my first month going nuts with adjusting temps and the level of substrate. I finally realized that newspaper (not 50 sheets either!) and a single layer of paper towel on top, or perhaps just a little bark -- not even enough to fully cover the newspaper -- did the job while being thin enough to give accurate temperature readings which were easier to control.

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Originally Posted by Patricia

Amazing that they survive our first weeks of newbie-ness, eh? They must be hardier critters than we give them credit for, LOL!

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well in nature they do slither around rocks, some of them can be sharp!:P
ya I'm pretty sure they are as tough as nails compared to what we give them credit for:D

Welcome to BP's they are not a beginer snake in my opinion,thats what they do they have to acclimate well feed live ,unless you get lucky with a good eater.corn snakes are a better beginner snake they eat all the time:)

Put one hide on the far left and the other on the far right with the water in the middle! Balls don't need alot of space! They prefer a busy tank to feel more secure! Add some plants or decoration to fill the tank!

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Originally Posted by seeya205

Put one hide on the far left and the other on the far right with the water in the middle! Balls don't need alot of space! They prefer a busy tank to feel more secure! Add some plants or decoration to fill the tank!

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Hey great idea! I have a corn snake and he likes his room alot, I have to remember what I am dealing with isnt a corn snake.