Ideal Tub size for ASF rack

Hey everyone,

I will be building a rack to house all of our ASF's over the next few days, and I had planned on using Deb's sticky for the mouse rack, but I am worried that the tubs may be a bit too small for ASF's. Do you all think the Small Van Ness litter pans are suitable, or should I try to find something a little bigger? I am concerned with both the height and floorspace. The Small litter pans measure 14x10x3/12. I am worried it is a little too short for the adults, but great for the weaners since they are so tiny when they start eating on their own. More floorspace would be good, but I am more or less deciding based on cost and availability right now, if I don't have to order tubs online that would be great.

Thanks

does sound a bit small but my worry would be the hoppers.

Adults are quick....but no quicker than a normal mouse.


Hoppers on the other hand are down right insanely fast and they jump.

Between this and chewing I keep them in 10 gallon tanks.

We raise ASF's in 5.5" shallow bus tubs you can get at the local restaurant supplier. They work real good in a rack situation








?.? Too many to mention Balls
?.? Rats and ASF's for feeders. too many to mention

You can keep a nice group in pans that measure (22¼ X 16¾ X 6¾) this allows you to have a wheel in each pan.

You can find them here for $5.59 http://www.kvvet.com/KVVet/productr....5093CA97B93B90

Thanks for the replies. I wasnt planning on using wheels, but it may be a good way to deter chewing. Do you recommend them or do you see it more as a personal preference for you?

I looked around for litter pans and such today and have found all of the Van Ness sizes. I still don't really see how any them are just the perfect size though. Now that I have seen them first hand, I am less concerned about the height being so low in the small pans, but the floorspace is pretty limited. I was reading through Connies website and noticed another thing to consider. Since they are so tiny when they drink and eat on their own, wouldnt a shallow tub still tall enough for the adults be best? I think we are going to be putting some chunks of 2x2 or 2x4 in the tubs for the weans to stand up on to eat, but I am still a little concerned about the height of the water sipper if we use a watering system instead of bottles.

I guess for now, just keep letting me know what your rack uses, and pics are always helpful.

Thanks

i use the van ness small cat litter pans for mice,1.5 works well.never had a escape and very little chewing.i think 1.2 or 1.3 would work well in that size pan but i'd be concerned about chewing.let us know if chewing in those tubs is a problem.

it's amazing how my colony (almost 2 years old) has calmed down,at first i was going to give up on them because they would chew up there lab block overnight,now that never happens.BTW i don't use wheels or chew blocks.i really like these guys,now if they would only grow faster.have fun!

Avoid the wheels unless you are just bored and want to spend the extra time cleaning and doing maintenance on them!

I have read that if the ASF rats have been exposed to a wheel they don't do well with out one and can cause havic in the colonies( basically killing each other). I have just one set with a wheel since I did that myself with out knowing. Most of the wheels are really bad with babies around as that can really hurt them.

http://www.amazon.com/DOSKOCIL-MFG-2...842295&sr=8-15

I was thinking of that as a tub. If not that....I don't know. I can't make a decision, help me out.

I have local access to all Van Ness and Doskocil pans, and the one above I think (I saw one at a pet store that had good dimensions, but it was flimsy, I think it is the one in the link). Just to get all the info in one place,

Van Ness

Small--14 x 10 x 3.5 = 140 sq in floorspace --as seen in Deb's DIY Sticky
Medium--16 x 12 x 4 = 192 sq in
Large--18 3/8 x 14 7/8 x 5 = 270 sq in
Giant--22 x 16 x 6 1/2 = 352 sq in

Doskocil

Small--14.1 x 10.4 x 3.5 = 146 sq in
Medium-- 16 x 12 x 4 = 192 sq in
Large-- 18.5 x 15.3 x 5.3 = 283 sq in
Jumbo-- 22.3 x 16.8 x 6.8 = 374 sq in


Also, I am definitely not going to use a wheel, so the height factor should only what you would consider good for the species in general.

I've temporarily housed weaners in the vanness tubs, with water bottles, and they destroyed all of their food over night, but they leave it in crumbles on the floor of the tub, so don't refill it.

I think we are going to go with the V35 vision tubs when we build our rack. And keep the large bins I use now for holding.

The dimensions on the V35 are pretty similar to large variations in both brands. Is there a particular reason you think you are going with Vision tubs instead of the locally available and cheaper litter pans? I assume they are better quality/thicker/stronger, but the Doskocil pans especially felt pretty sturdy.

Well, when we built our rack from the large vanness, the sides of the vanness tubs are made to bow outwards a bit, and this is a problem with the pan falling out of the rails.

Plus, I have decided I want some visibility to see the ASF's when I walk in, just to make sure everything is okay without opening the tubs individually.

Oh, and chris is making snake racks pretty much the same way as he would for our rat racks, so he has the plans already and can cut everything out with machines. It's cheaper and easier for him to do it this way, where there isn't that goofy bowing of the sides.

Other than that, I like the size of them. So yea. :) I think the V35 are like the same price as Vanness, or close to it. Not too much more really.

Floor space is 17.5" x 12.5" (roughly)

I don't have any ASFs, but I do breed mice. I use the Van Ness large pans with 1.5. I can grow about 3 litters out to weanlings in a tub with the adults. The bowing in of these pans is annoying. I actually build my slide hangers a little smaller than the pans to bow them in a little. They will not fall out this was but does cause the tops of them to drop a bit in the front and back. I've been using one rack for about a year and have had no escapes. It works so well for mice I built another one a couple of weeks ago like it. I have no problems with the small one getting their water from the edstrom valves. I do also use a rack built with the OddJob concrete tubs that are about 6" deep for mass weanings, but I do use a small piece of 2x4 to help them reach their water (bottles).

Now, all that said, knowing that ASFs are known problematic chewers I probably would not use these pans due to the fact that they do drop a bit in the front and back. I believe that this small gap would be an invitation to chewing, However, tubs with these basic dimensions may be about right for about 1.3 or so ASFs.

Here's a couple pics of my racks.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g6...t/DSC00805.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g6...t/DSC00806.jpg
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g6...t/DSC00807.jpg

Thanks for the tips about the bowing, I definitely don't want to deal with that. We are buidling the rack because of escapees.

In store, the Doskocil/Petmate pans felt quite a bit stiffer, so I don't think they would bow the same way as the Van Ness. With that said, I think the V35 clarity and assurance of quality is nice, but I am not sure if they are worth the extra cost. I also don't like that Vision does not tell you how much the shipping is before you pay for the products.

I think shipping for us was $38 for 20 tubs in one box. Oh, and the Vanness are actually made bowed out, not like they do under weight or anything, it's the shape they make them in. I have one tub that we dont try to use because it always falls out of the darn rails, and that sucks when you have 13 weaners running around trying to escape.

I will take a look at the Doskocil/Petmate tubs again, but I think that is what we are going to use. We are only going to be making a single column, possibly 2 column rack. They are on sale by us for 2.50/each, plus no shipping.

Overall, if the bowing isnt a significant problem on the Doskocil pans, you seem to agree that the dimensions would be suitable? I am talking about the Large size. I like the floorspace, and I think the height is do-able, and if we need blocks we can add them. However, with those dimensions, I wonder if just using cement tubs again would be a good option. They are six inches high and offer way more floorspace.

Would these work okay for ASF tubs in a rack? This company is literally around the corner from where I live so no shipping costs at all (also comes in grey).

http://www.basequipment.com/Black_Po...b_p/131543.htm

I think 7" is too tall for ASF's, but if they have a shallower one, I know people have been sucessful with bussing tubs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Would these work okay for ASF tubs in a rack? This company is literally around the corner from where I live so no shipping costs at all (also comes in grey).

http://www.basequipment.com/Black_Po...b_p/131543.htm

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those tubs appear to have ridges on the inside bottoms,could be a place to start chewing.

if you do go with the cement tubs watch out for the little hole on one end. There is a little hole on the lip, the news ones around here have them now.
the asfs got a hold of that and chewed a hole. all you need is 1/8 or 1/4 wire cloth and cover it before they can do any damage

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThyTempest

I think 7" is too tall for ASF's, but if they have a shallower one, I know people have been sucessful with bussing tubs.

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Well on looking back at that site they do indeed have a shallower one and it's cheaper too! :banana:

http://www.basequipment.com/Gray_Pol...b_p/131539.htm

Would this one do okay I wonder?

Much better dimensions, but the ridges may still present a chewing issue. May be worth a shot though.

Wonder what the dimensions are on that tub. It just says single compartment 5" deep.

While we are talking tubs, I need to find something 12x24x6 deep. I started a new thread so I won't steer this one off track. http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=92078

these are what my next rack will be made from

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/21-2...0%20%20BK.html

Austin....I have a 27 tub rack and I use van ness large tubs for my asf's. I keep them in a 1.2 and have one 1.3 without any issues. The growouts I keep in another large van ness tub. I even keep 1.1 domestic rats in these tubs and they still dont bow. I also have a 1.5 mice colony as well as a couple 1.3 dwarf hamsters too. No chewing on any of the tubs. One thing I did do was opened a hole in the mesh a little bit to allow the water bottle to go down a little further for the weaned asf's. Works like a charm.

later
Jordan

I'm hesitant to use bussing tubs, they are thicker, sturdier and all around sound great, but those darn edges at the bottom! I've had big rats chew the small mounded dimples on the bottom of the mortar tubs, I just couldn't risk anyone getting a tooth around the bottom of the bussing tubs.

TSC had a litterpan I would use in a heartbeat, but I can't for the life of me remember what the name was, or even if they carry them anymore. :oops:

Thanks for the tip Connie, I have to get more EF at TSC tomorrow anyway, I can look for it. If something doesnt shine at TSC I think I am going to use one of the large Doskocil tubs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rodentslayer

I even keep 1.1 domestic rats in these tubs and they still dont bow.

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Like was said before, they don't bow due to weight. They are made curved on the sides instead of straight. So you can make your sliders to fit the center dimension, and the tubs will want to turn and be sloppy in the rack, or you can do like me and make them closer together (straightening the sides and eliminating the possibility of them falling out), but bending the sides in like this will inevitably cause the front and back to bow down a bit. (Just wanted to clear that up :))

I feel wheels are essential!!! ASFs are destructive because they are very intelligent and need mental stimulation. Without them, they get bored. Boredom brings destruction.

Just a thought...any particular reason why we can't/don't use standard sterilite tubs for rodents? My only thought would be maybe the lip isnt wide enough.

I would think that the complex shape of the inside where there is a corner and the recesses in the bottom would be chewing hazards.

general rule of thumb... If they can get a tooth on it, they will. And the second one figures it out, ALL of them will do it. Overnight they will be GONE. (trust me, I know! :D )

So, if I find a tub with no chewing hazards and a decent lip for hanging, all should be good. In theory at least.

?

i use sterilite tubs for mine, but it took a while to find some without fang holds. they have been in them for close to 3 months now and no chew outs to date...

what do you mean by a lip for hanging?

The rim around the outside to hang it from runners. What do you mean by fang holds?

Edges for them to chew. ;)

It wasn't this was it Connie? I was just there today getting bowls and saw them:D

http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/...g=true&cFlag=1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

TSC had a litterpan I would use in a heartbeat, but I can't for the life of me remember what the name was, or even if they carry them anymore. :oops:

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No, not the right ones, but thanks for trying! Those are mortar tubs, (and very expensive compared to home depot and what not).

The ones I think I saw we're perhaps the Petmate.... but I am unsure. I know it was a brand that isn't very common. Austin (ThyTempest) was just over tonight and we we're discussing the tubs I saw... Next time I'm there I'll have to look to make sure. :/

We are doing an experment with the new asf/ single mom rat tubs. We are making it out of full size steamer pans (the kind they use it resturants. Granted the tubs are a bit expensive, (about $15 for 3 and they are 13"w 21"l 6"D) but I won't have to worry about anyone getting out of them. My question is about the mesh on top. I have 1/8x1/8 mesh that I want to use for the top but can an ASF chew food through that small a hole? I have 1/2 x 1/2 but I have see the babies go through that mesh like it was no problem.

Those steamer pans are so expensive. We we're looking online to find any below $30 bucks each that weren't TOO small LOL. Glad to see you found the right store apparently!

As to the mesh, I'd go with 1/4". Not 1/8th" for ASF. 1/2" for large rats.