asf RATS as pets

Ok, I went to the pet store I used to work at yesterday. There to my dismay, were African soft furred rats for sale. Only she (my old boss/owner of store) had them marked as "Dwarf rats". Ok, she wont sell them as feeders because she doesn't sell feeders. She is selling them as pets! Anyone who owns these guys knows they are biters....Yet she is going to try to make a buck on them and sell them to kids! Not only that but she is selling them for $39.99 a PIECE!!!! or $60.00 for a pair!!!!!!

I don't think she knows anything about them but knowing her, she will pretend that she does! Ugh, I'm sorry to vent but it makes me so mad. I am so glad I don't work for her anymore. The only place I can think of that she got them was from a recent reptile expo we had here (thats where I got mine) and she always used to tell me how she would never go there because people at reptile shows are horrible people that mistreat their animals...

Sorry, but I am LIVID :taz:

I don't really see the problem? Maybe if they are handled when young they won't bite. For me at least I would much rather have a pet ASF rat than a hampster or even a domestic rat (mainly due to the smell). I think as long as she tells customers that they can bite there is no problem with it. I personally don't hold any rodents any more than I have to for my snakes because I think there kind of nasty but I do think they are interesting to observe. So they would be a perfect pet if someone was more interested in observing than holding them. I raise gerbils for one of my snakes and those things will bite me just as bad as the ASF rats because I never handle them. I do think it is wrong that she has them labeled as "Dwarf Rats" though. As for the price, I paid $100.00 for my first trio. She can try to sell them for whatever she wants.

....here little ratty ratty ratty....awww look how cute....OWW, SON OF !*$^&^

I'm afraid I fail to see the issue here, either. Hamsters are often very bitey, nasty little rodents, and yet they are extremely popular in the pet trade. And not all pets are meant to be cuddled. And even the name... :confuzd: ...Many animals have a variety of common names they are known by.

Of course, ideally, you'd want to be sure that the buyer knew exactly what species they were buying so they could know exactly how to take care of it...but since when does a typical pet store offer the right care advice for ANY of their animals? :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

....here little ratty ratty ratty....awww look how cute....OWW, SON OF !*$^&^

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:8: :rofl: Oh man that cracked me up.

yeah, imagine buying one of these as a pet for your small child and having the pet shop


1.overcharge you (yes, they used to be expensive but as they are becoming more available, she is overcharging)

2.Not give you a good idea of their demeanor since she doesnt even know herself

3.call them dwarf rats...they are not dwarf rats...thats like calling a kitten a dwarf cougar...lol

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Originally Posted by Wolfsnaps

1.overcharge you (yes, they used to be expensive but as they are becoming more available, she is overcharging)

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If she is overcharging they will not sell. If they sell she is not overcharging. It is a free market. She can try to sell them for $1000.00 each if she wants. It is the consumer that decides what to buy and how much a product is worth.

As for the biting issue, I don't see a problem here either. Hampsters bite, Gerbils bite, Rabbits bite..... I also think if someone started handling the ASF rats from weanling size you could tame them down. They are not pets for small children but either are any other small animal IMO.

I thought handling from birth would tame them down too...but so far everything I have heard from other people points to the fact that a tiger doesnt change its stripes.


I know, she takes that "free market" idea to the max. She takes advantage of the fact that she has the only pet store around (the next closest being a 45 minute drive away).

I just was surprised. I don't thin kthey make good pets. I have known of nice hamsters...evern nice gerbils and rats...(rats being the best from my experience).....but asf rats just seem too wild.

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Originally Posted by Wolfsnaps

I thought handling from birth would tame them down too...but so far everything I have heard from other people points to the fact that a tiger doesnt change its stripes.

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I know everyone has their own experiences, but people in other countries who raise these as pets have much tamer ASF rats. I believe since most of the stock here in the USA is raised as food, they are not socialized as well. It is a common belief over many species of animals that generations of taming does have a positive effect on the future progeny.

As far as the tiger/stripes comment, that was thought true of the silver fox at one point too. The silver fox is elusive and quick to bite, yet over a period of a few decade experimenters, who bred only the tamest offspring created a docile animal from what was thought to be an 'untamable' creature.

A quote concerning the silver fox..

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"...one that whines for attention from human beings without any prior conditioning, licks its masters' faces, and has even begun to look something like a domestic dog. It is as if by an act of will human beings had transformed an innately hostile creature into a friend."

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New York Times, March 30, 1999

In my experience, the ASF's can be tamed with a little effort and patience... perhaps not to completely "social" but easily tamed to a point where they are as "handleable" as a gerbil or hamster.

Rick

I understand what the OP is saying. The entire reason we did not get ASF to breed was based solely on the general consensus of this and other sites that they do not make good pets and don't socialize with humans well. I wanted feeders, but I also wanted to be able to handle the rats, and even keep them as pets. I'm glad we went with normal domestic rats, but if I didn't do any research on the ASF, I would have bought them, and probably been upset with the choice I made. Happy with the feeders, but would not have liked the attitude of the ASF.

Of course, maybe it would have turned out differently and I would have loved them. But, until I get some, I will not know.

I just think the ASF Rats, as a whole, get a bum rap. People make them out to be "agressive" when it fact it's more to do with timidness. Once you handle them enough you can get them over the timidness. I am unsure if you can encourange them to become social as a standard domestic rat.

Rick

I saw ASFR in a pet store in Melbourne labeled as "Giant Mice". I asked the "rodent guy'' If they were in fact African Soft Furred Rats and the answer I got was "oh no these are definitely not rats." I then asked were they were from and the guy side stepped and didn’t answer me.

I think the consumer should have full disclosure on what they are buying, so at the very least they can get accurate info on the animal. As for the price these guys were $9.99. I do believe in supply and demand. If no one purchases the animal the price will come down. Just watch the classifieds on anything, or the clearance section at stores.

In our collection of ASFR we have some biters but they are all the remaining originals. Their offspring will let us handle them to clean out there cages and we can pet them too. I do admit we have a few that will come across the cage to bite you, but only a few of those are left.

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Originally Posted by kellysballs

I saw ASFR in a pet store in Melbourne labeled as "Giant Mice". I asked the "rodent guy'' If they were in fact African Soft Furred Rats and the answer I got was "oh no these are definitely not rats." I then asked were they were from and the guy side stepped and didn’t answer me.

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I definantly agree with full disclosure. If a petshop wants to call them this or that doesn't matter to me, but they should list where they are from, as well as other common names they have. For example, the local family run petshop that I frequent and volunteer at sells "Smiling Tree Frogs" but it also states on the tank "Also known as White's Tree Frogs or Dumpy Tree Frogs".

They should also explain, that like a hamster, they are jumpy and timid and, also like a hamster, they can nip if cornered or grabbed. You need to work with them so that they don't fear you. If you reach in and pick them up everyday they tame quickly. If you reach in once a week during cleaning and only pick them up by the tail to remove them from the tank, they are not going to tame very well.

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In our collection of ASFR we have some biters but they are all the remaining originals. Their offspring will let us handle them to clean out there cages and we can pet them too.

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I am glad your current generations have become tamer. As with the silver fox experiments, if you remove the nippers and only breed the tamest, you will have tamer and tamer ASF's each generation, but I do honestly think that social interation will help too.

Let me add that I don't really think of the ASF's as Rats. They are more like a mouse in nearly every aspect. They just get a bit larger. I concider them "ASF Mice". :gj:

Rick

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Originally Posted by SiscoReptiles

Let me add that I don't really think of the ASF's as Rats. They are more like a mouse in nearly every aspect. They just get a bit larger. I concider them "ASF Mice". :gj:

Rick

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One of our local breeders here calls them "Ghana Mice" too...

In the little guys defense, its just a matter of perserverance. I have lots of pets (timor and nile monitors, razorback musks, budgies, sugar gliders, etc.) including asfs who people say aren't tameable. I say you probably aren't trying. My rats aren't calm whatsoever but they are gentle, never bite and would give a normal rat a run for its money as far as pet quality goes. Some animals never tame and some species are more difficult then others but if you make an effort to understand what motivates the animal then you can usually socialize it. I am a reptile person but I love my two asf girls and will probably have a pair for some time to come. Just think of it as a test of your animal skills;)

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Originally Posted by Wolfsnaps

1.overcharge you (yes, they used to be expensive but as they are becoming more available, she is overcharging)

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I wouldn't exactly call that "overcharge". They're priced to discourage people from buying them as feeders the exact same way that the "fancy rats" are priced. I can get a medium rat for less than $2 from the person I buy feeders from, yet the breeder a few streets down has his priced at $15 a piece or two for $20. To most, this is insanely overpriced.. To them, they're priced to sell as pets that will be around for the next couple years or so. When I was younger I paid $30 for a hamster and about $40 for a guinea pig. If I were to want a pet ASF I wouldn't mind paying $40. It's a one time payment for a pet that will hopefully last a while.

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Originally Posted by Kymberli

I wouldn't exactly call that "overcharge". They're priced to discourage people from buying them as feeders the exact same way that the "fancy rats" are priced. want a pet ASF I wouldn't mind paying $40. It's a one time payment for a pet that will hopefully last a while.

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. Theres that too. They aren't overpriced if you're willing to pay that much and if they are overpriced then they arent the pet for you.

Take it from me, I breed ASFs for pets.

They do not tame down completely. They are under NO CIRCUMSTANCES children's pets.
Mine never bite, but still jump and will run every chance they get (for the most part). Even the most handleable rat I have will only put up with handling and petting for so long. The others all get held by the tail when i pick them up on my hand, just in case they try to jump, which they almost all will.

Mine don't bite, but almost all others DO.
The main issue I have is that she is charging a lot for them, which would not be a problem if they were properly labeled. But she is labling them as something far more exotic, and trying to make money off of them by decieving the public!

I can nearly guarantee that in the US there is no real true pet stock. Someone is going to buy those, get the [poop] bitten out of them, and be really upset. lol

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Originally Posted by Rhacrexporph

. Theres that too. They aren't overpriced if you're willing to pay that much and if they are overpriced then they arent the pet for you.

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They aren't over priced if you buy them from a breeder. Most pet shops that sell pet rats are selling the same rats they use for feeders, as pets, and making a ton more money on them than they would selling them as feeders.

People pay upwards of $60 for a rat from a pro show breeder, and it's because you get a rat that is healthy, well bred, and won't break your heart dying young.

:whisper: Hey guys....this thread is 4 1/2 years old. I don't think the OP even visits here anymore, and I seriously doubt ASF's go for anywhere near that price anymore. :P

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Originally Posted by JLC

:whisper: Hey guys....this thread is 4 1/2 years old. I don't think the OP even visits here anymore, and I seriously doubt ASF's go for anywhere near that price anymore. :P

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Bahahah just noticed that. Still an interesting thread to read.

I guess all I'm saying is people will pay what they'll pay and thats between the seller and buyer. As far as pet status every animal we have as pets today was (and some still are) nasty little critters at some point in their history, from dogs to rats to parrots to beardies, etc. Its all a matter of the time hobbyists devote to making them suitable. People just haven't devoted enough time to ASF's yet. I'm willing to bet someday we will see ASF's next to brown rats at the pet store and they'll be completely suitable as pets, more so then gerbils hamsters and mice anyway. On a sidenote my asf's that are socialized remind me more of rats then mice personality wise anyway and one of the females seeks out human attention and bruxes when you rub her head.

And yes lol this is a very old thread and price probably isn't an issue anymore.

check this out!!!

http://i55.tinypic.com/2rzcvba.jpg

AMAZING!!!!! shes super sweet and only nibbles very gently.

old thread, but I have never been bit by any of my ASF's in my colonies, even the moms with newborns, of course I usually culled the nasty ones and bred the sweet ones, this could have something to do with it? I think they make great pets if handled properly. :cool:

The mouseagility folks on youtube have ASF they've trained to do tricks and they handle them just fine. I did see the date on the beginning, and perhaps back 5 years ago the species were much less tameable, as only a couple years is a LOT of generations for breeding for temperament.

And I remember the prices being easily that high 5 years ago, but I agree with those that say the shop owner is welcome to charge whatever price she wishes. If you think it's too much, don't buy them. Same thing I tell anyone who gripes that a BP morph is "over-priced" and thinks the seller is ripping people off by charging a high price. If it's YOUR snake, charge whatever you want. If it's HIS/HER snake, they can charge whatever they want. If you don't like the price, go buy elsewhere.

A woman I have breeding asf's for me has some very tame friendly asf's, she's worked with them for many generations now.
While not as friendly and out going as my norwegian rats she's amazed me with how tame she's gotten them.
I've lost more than a few chunks of skin to the little :cens0r:

'The mouse Agility people' = Marina ;)
She is a member here, as well as on softfurs.com, and definitely had the most tame ASFs I know of!

I have one ASF that I consider 100% tame. The rest are still a tad wild, but none bite or anything.

But in my case, tame doesn't mean that they are friendly. I get bitten almost every day. ;)
I even find that the more aggressive they are, the tamer they can get. Aggressive ones are just the least fearful. So, as long as you keep your fingers away from their mouth, aggressive ASF's can become great pets and behave almost like Norway rats (I find them even funnier, more intelligent and much more playful).

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Originally Posted by susi´s trainer

But in my case, tame doesn't mean that they are friendly. I get bitten almost every day. ;)
I even find that the more aggressive they are, the tamer they can get. Aggressive ones are just the least fearful. So, as long as you keep your fingers away from their mouth, aggressive ASF's can become great pets and behave almost like Norway rats (I find them even funnier, more intelligent and much more playful).

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Wait, what do you consider tame? If something bites me, I don't consider it tame at all. LOL.

Marina! That's so strange!

Mine never bite, but are still harder to hold without them jumping.

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Originally Posted by tekwarren

....here little ratty ratty ratty....awww look how cute....oww, son of !*$^&^

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x2 lmao

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Marina! That's so strange!

Mine never bite, but are still harder to hold without them jumping.

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True about the jumping bit, I call ours "popcorn" the way they jump.