Toref/Torefet: Varanus Tristis Orientalis/Freckled Tree Monitor

My final reptile should be home here tomorrow.

His/her name is Toref/Torefet (masculine/feminine). Too young to sex, so we will make it permanent when we know for sure.

It's Hebrew for predator/devourer.

Well, he/she is a monitor. However, a rare monitor, especially in the states.

Toref is a 3 month old Varanus Tristis Orientalis, or Freckled Tree Monitor.

"He" will max out at about 2 feet long with half of that being tail. They are similar in size and temperament to Ackie Monitors, but have a thinner build, are faster, and are great climbers, as opposed to diggers.

His permanent home will be a 4X2X1.5' boaphile tank that Jeff will be building for me. It will complete the 4X2' tower I have and the reptile area will be full, complete, and awesome, as is the collection.

I am done. Katie and I agreed that Toref is the last reptile, unless someone passes, and/or we get a bigger house, for the foreseeable future. I am at peace with that.

The one caveat is that I've never had a monitor. They are a bit of work and are intelligent and shy and you need to earn their trust and keep it. If, for some reason, this is not a good fit, a) the breeder is happy to find another home (they are in high demand) at any point in time, and b) I will pick someone else for the tank Toref is going in.

I am not too concerned. This species seems unbelievably cool. However, I won't know much about his personality for a bit. At 3 months, his body is the size of my middle finger (length wise) and he's too small to really handle and is a little flighty.

They grow fast though, and in a few months, after I've got him (literally) eating out of my hand, we can work on gentle handling.

Pictures below.

Toref - sideways on some bark

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/jjDaT27.jpg

Toref Chillng with a Sibling:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/CNtDdTD.jpg

​Some stock photos of Freckled Monitors:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/Pfla6sS.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/M1a2GKH.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/upR6Sea.jpg

Very cool new acquisition! I’ve always liked the monitors but never got into them due to their size. Interesting to hear about a smaller variety. I’m looking forward to his or her progression thread. I’ve no doubt he’ll be eating out of your hand in no time. :P

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Originally Posted by Dianne

Very cool new acquisition! I’ve always liked the monitors but never got into them due to their size. Interesting to hear about a smaller variety. I’m looking forward to his or her progression thread. I’ve no doubt he’ll be eating out of your hand in no time. :P

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Thank you Dianne. I think he's going to rock!

Some of the medium sized, but relatively docile monitors appeal to me too, like the Yellow, or Quince Monitor. They get about 4FT, but are smaller bodied than other monitors; again, semi-arboreal. However, a 4X2X1.5', all I have room left for, is not adequate for one at all. They are okay with 4FT of length, and even 2FT of floor space, as a minimum, but require 3-4FT of height as well!

What's cool about these guys, and the Ackies too, is that they are just "mini" Big Monitors, with similar personality, intelligence, etc. However, they are generally a little more docile and can be held in one hand!

If you are interested in learning more about Freckled Monitors, or Ackies, etc, let me know (feel free to PM me). I've done a lot of research. I can recommend some good books that are relatively inexpensive on Amazon and can share what I've learned. This breeder is local, but I talked his ear off! He really knew his stuff and had answers to all my questions. So, that's a good sign. I was mostly asking Freckled Monitor specific questions, but he breeds Ackies, and other dwarf species.

Unfortunately, you have to go to Europe, or really Australia, to find breeders of a plethora of dwarf species. They have pygmy monitors that are the size of a leopard gecko, for example.

This is the best feeding video I could fine on youtube of one of these monitors. I only found a few.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95oChpI08sA

Very cool video. I’m afraid you lost me with the bug eating. I know it is a completely irrational fear considering I keep snakes, but bugs and spiders freak me out. I’ll have to live vicariously through you. ;)

I have always read that the monitors were very intelligent. I mostly see savannah monitors around here, and years ago the occasional nile monitor. If I ever get over my bug phobia, I’ll have to look into these.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dianne

Very cool video. I’m afraid you lost me with the bug eating. I know it is a completely irrational fear considering I keep snakes, but bugs and spiders freak me out. I’ll have to live vicariously through you. ;)

I have always read that the monitors were very intelligent. I mostly see savannah monitors around here, and years ago the occasional nile monitor. If I ever get over my bug phobia, I’ll have to look into these.

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Unfortunately, the smaller monitors eat bugs as a staple. I will supplement with lean proteins and small rodents.

For now, cut up pinkie mice, scrambled egg, raw or boiled egg, boiled chicken pieces, etc. are all okay. Ground turkey is good too. However, even as an adult 50-60% of his diet will be insects.

I have 4 other insect eaters in the house, so it doesn't bother me. I am used to it. However, certain bugs - NOPE.

No crickets, etc.

I don't mind Dubia Roaches because they don't breed if they get out, don't smell, don't bite, and really good the lizards. Mealworms and super worms I am okay with as well. The latter he can eat when bigger, but not too many mealworms. Harder to digest.

Happy to have you live vicariously through me though Dianne.

He's here! He's home!

Toref came home tonight. Katie and went and visited him and his siblings and he was still the one who wanted to interact the most. So, he came home with us.
He's spent the past two hours thoroughly exploring his cage. It's a temporary tank while he grows out and Jeff at Boaphile builds his 4X2X1.5' tank.

It's full of branches and flat woods pieces and logs and hides.

He seems pretty intrigued by it. He seems to like his new digs. However, he keeps wanting to climb the walls. In his old tank, the background was climbable. I think he will figure it out pretty quickly though.

Below are two videos and some pictures. I'll post more ASAP, but want him to settle in a bit tonight at least, before more pictures and disruption. He watches me like a hawk. Even from across the room, he's eyeing me.

Video of Toref going into his new home: https://streamable.com/qlyyv

Video of Toref exploring after just entering his new tank: https://streamable.com/kdtyp


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/2NK18gP.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/AoNGfP5.jpg?1

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/1uz8FYf.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/XRW7CzF.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/vZdMA2p.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/Z59duHH.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/TFevUKg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/F6OSA33.jpg?1

He is adorable! And so tiny! I bet he can move like greased lightning. :D

Congrats on the new addition! Your setup looks great and he looks nice and healthy. I'll be eager to see how things go with him. I don't know much about monitors but have heard that they are very rewarding to keep.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dianne

He is adorable! And so tiny! I bet he can move like greased lightning. :D

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Oh yeah! Fast! You should see how quickly he can navigate branches, etc. to get to food. Also, not really "handleable" at this point. Very squirmy and flighty. They tend to grow out of it with time and handling and interaction.

Basically, I am supposed to leave him alone for 2-3 weeks to settle in an equate me with food, etc. Then I can start interacting with him in the tank. Hand feeding, letting him smell/climb on me, etc. Start building trust.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by artgecko

Congrats on the new addition! Your setup looks great and he looks nice and healthy. I'll be eager to see how things go with him. I don't know much about monitors but have heard that they are very rewarding to keep.

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Thank you! They are supposed to be incredibly rewarding. That's the main reason I got him. Also, incredibly active, great hunters, interactive with their keepers, and diurnal. He's really the only animal I have that I can interact with in their environment during the day other than Frank (blue tongue skink). 2/13 isn't a great ratio. Good thing I am a night owl! Of course, the snakes don't mind coming out to say hello during the day, but the Leopard Geckos in particular, as well as the Rhacodactylus, get a little cranky some times.

Toref seems good. He didn't want Dubai yesterday (used to crickets), and ignored scrambled egg microwaved in the bowl (NO fat used in cooking), but he's still getting adjusted and is easily spooked right now. However, he got braver throughout the day.

Around 2PM, I cut up a mouse fuzzy (Frozen mouse fuzzy - a) easier to cut then defrosted and b) I would never hurt a live animal). I cut about 1/4 of the body, including the heart, into bite size pieces, and defrosted. That was in his bowl for about 2 seconds and he ran down and gobbled down the mouse parts. He should only eat rodent 2X a week or so and insects 5-6 right now. As an adult, and eating every other day, he can eat rodent 1/3 meals easily. Other lean protein, like ground turkey, can be mixed in, or even boiled chicken.

He must have worn out exploring because I found him worn out in the morning, passed out between his two wood "planks/basking areas." It was so cute.

I did have a potential issue, however. In devouring the mouse parts, he dragged them through the substrate (having taken them out of his bowl), and ate 3 pieces of alfalfa bedding. I am using it because it is digestible, but that seemed like a lot for a guy his size. He seems fine now, and his metabolism is super fast, especially as a baby, so I probably would have known by now if there is was an issue (12 hours later) and he's fast asleep hanging from his vertical log. However, I am thinking of a) using a bigger bowl, b) putting in on his wood planks, and not on the substrate, and c) potentially switching to Reptile Prime coconut fiber substrate.

Again, the bedding (link here: https://www.zillarules.com/all-produ...ing-and-litter) is supposed to excellent in dryer tanks (horrible in wet/humid environments) and is digestible. From what I've read, not just Zilla says so. It's supposed to be very safe for all arid species (again moisture is not good as it causes it to expand, lose it's antibacterial and absorbent nature, and smell).

Anyone have experience with Reptile Prime being ingested by a lizard and being okay? Any thoughts on what might be a better substrate option? Thank you in advance and I'll advise if anything changes for the worst. However, if I don't say anything, assume he's fine.

Here's a video of Toref eating a piece of mouse Fuzzy: https://streamable.com/7wxep


Toref this morning before he woke up:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/HPWASrQ.jpg
​Toref this morning after he woke up:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/FHoroty.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/NROYkZT.jpg

A few hours after his meal:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/daZABFS.jpg


Bedtime:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/ohPUhnq.jpg
A little after bedtime:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/TnmQe1R.jpg

Very cool!! I'm anxious to watch this thread and see how he/she grows. I love monitors and really look forward to having the space to keep one. Congrats!!

Toref is shedding on his tail and seems agitated. He's all over the tank all day and then crashes at night. He shows interest in food when I put it in, but hasn't eaten in a few days; since the shed started. He's got plenty of energy and seems fine otherwise.

They love crickets, grasshoppers, etc. When he gets older, he can eat small mice as well. They also eat ground turkey and chicken (boiled - no oil), egg, mouse parts when young (CUT WHILE FROZEN!), snail (can o' snails is awesome and Frank loves the snails as well), and other insects.

I will offer live Dubai roaches, super worms as he gets older, occasional wax worms, butter worms, etc. However, crickets are not allowed in this house.

I found canned crickets, grasshoppers, soldier fly larvae (phoenix worms), and mealworms. I think that will work great. He can hunt the live food I do not mind having in the house, and eat the canned stuff of the others. I put in chopped up cricket and grasshopper today. He seemed interested and excited sensory wise, but still did not eat. He didn't even eat his mouse parts, which he seems to favor, especially the heart.

Apparently the canned insects, although not as cheap as freeze dried, are much better for them. Happy to do that for him to give him a varied and complete diet.

He's beginning to come up the front of the tank to see me when I come in, but as soon as my hand goes in, even with food, he runs and hides. It's going to take time to build his trust. That's okay, we have many years together. I just have to be careful when I clean the tank, etc. He's super fast and tiny. Yesterday, I replaced the alfalfa with printless newspaper. I shoed him into his hide and quickly put the whole hide in a holding container. Wasn't going to risk trying to pick him up yet. Need to earn trust first.

On the alfalfa, and as mentioned previously, he ingested a few pieces while dragging mouse parts around and eating them. He's okay, but I don't want to take the risk. Also, they are kind of smelly, and he spends literally 99% of his time off the ground. I think he could care less what's down there as long as he can run around on his branches.

I will say it's pretty cool having an active, diurnal, animal in the house.

Some pictures below of the cutie.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/CZQBKX1.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/XVi5x8U.jpg

He sleeps in the weirdest positions.

"Toref, what are you doing?" "Just hanging around, Dad!"

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/0szSicz.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/Gx9Mhl3.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/dsY4rBj.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/WRsNvPk.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/UvvSxqz.jpg

I'll probably have to enjoy him vicariously thru you (thank you!), but he's really appealing to me as lizards go. Temptation...:cool:

I like his "snakey-ness"...an alert & speedy, slender-bodied, tongue-flicking "weirdo"...so ADORABLE! But I can also imagine him getting loose & running circles
around me! :rofl: (hope that never happens to you) This is the first I've heard of a monitor that stays smaller & handleable, & I've had bug-eating lizards before,
so even that's not a deal-breaker to me. But I already have enough pets...so for now I'm a watcher. ;) I know my limits too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I'll probably have to enjoy him vicariously thru you (thank you!), but he's really appealing to me as lizards go. Temptation...:cool:

I like his "snakey-ness"...an alert & speedy, slender-bodied, tongue-flicking "weirdo"...so ADORABLE! But I can also imagine him getting loose & running circles
around me! :rofl: (hope that never happens to you) This is the first I've heard of a monitor that stays smaller & handleable, & I've had bug-eating lizards before,
so even that's not a deal-breaker to me. But I already have enough pets...so for now I'm a watcher. ;) I know my limits too.

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They are similar to Ackies in length, but a little thinner, and quicker. As he grows, and learns to trust, he should be able to be held without issue.

Right now, he's too scared and quick and small. He'll be quick when older too, but not as shy and scared. Also, a little easier to track a 24 inch lizard that fits in your hand than a this tiny guy! Good thing they grow fast. Full size within 12-14 months from now.

Similar diet to Ackies as well. Ackies tend to burrow, but these guy is like the Yafe (Carpet Python) of lizards. He's in the open 80% of the time and climbing, etc. He's fun to watch and is a great display animal as well.

However, some people say to rely on Ackie care sheets for this guys. DO NOT. Similar temps, but they need things to climb. They recommend height, but they adapt very well, apparently, to semi-terrestrial life as well. They don't have to get super high up, as long as they have things to climb and places to hide.

Additionally, these guys like it much drier.

Again, very rare. However, if you want something more common, but still rare, and still bad to the bone monitor, Ackies are great.

I know his breeder though, so if you are ever interested...............:).

Seriously, it's good to know when to stop.

If he eats the canned crickets and grasshoppers, I will be ecstatic.

I bet as he grows, settles in & relaxes a bit more, he won't be a fussy eater at all. Just my hunch...

Ackies have less appeal since they're bigger, & like you, I like a more outgoing critter that climbs. That's why I'm a rat snake keeper too. (so we'll see? ;))

I have great news! I guess Toref was just settling in a bit. He went nuts for his food this morning!

He ate:

-Part of a canned silkworm

-Part of a canned roach

-A canned cricket

-A few mouse parts

ALL WERE CUT UP.

However, I need to cut them a little smaller. He doesn't seem to mind, but the smaller pieces were easier. They smell and are wet and gross. I didn't feel well this morning and cut them as quick as possible.

Either way, I gave him some variety and he loved it! I have no idea how something that small ate that much! They have super fast metabolisms and his basking spot is 130F. They digest fast. He can apparently eat like that 5-6 days a week while this small. When an adult, he will eat every 2 days, or 4 times a week.

Additionally, I am so glad I found these canned insects. They are moist and supposed to be nutritionally much closer to live than freeze dried. They also trigger his food response big time. They do wreak, but he seems to like that.

They are scavengers as well as hunters. I plan to offer live dubai, occasional wax worms and butter worms, super worms when he's bigger, etc. So he will get live variety as well. However, they can live on canned insects and other lean protein. They do not have to eat live. He spends most fo the day running and climbing around the tank anyway, so it's not like the only exercise he gets is hunting his food.


Video of Toref devouring some food! https://streamable.com/5u1gv

That video is so cute! Funny how he backed into his shelter with bigger mouthful. He's adorable...

That makes sense that he likes food that reeks...I'm sure they scavenge "road-kill" & other left-overs in the wild...he should be fairly easy to feed. :gj:

Mmmmm, canned bugs. :weirdface :puke:

Seriously though, for those of us that don’t care for live bugs that would be an alternative. Hmmm, I can see that no one will ever eat dinner at my house if they discovered canned bugs in the fridge. :bolt:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dianne

Mmmmm, canned bugs. :weirdface :puke:

Seriously though, for those of us that don’t care for live bugs that would be an alternative. Hmmm, I can see that no one will ever eat dinner at my house if they discovered canned bugs in the fridge. :bolt:

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:), LOL!

I think it's awesome. I don't mind feeding live insects, but only certain ones. However, for people that do not want to feed live insects, what a great option. It's also a pretty new option as freeze dried (ugh) used to be the only alternative to live.

I will not feed live crickets, grasshoppers, etc. Nothing that's smelly and makes noise. Katie has also 100% vetoed crickets in the house. She isn't even happy about the canned ones!

I will feed live Dubai roaches, wax worms, superworms, mealworms, butter worms, etc.

I have quite the arsenal of canned and frozen food for him and other things I can cook.

I have canned silkworms, soldier fly larvae, grasshoppers, cockroaches, crickets, superworms, and snails (just meat, out of the shell).

He loves the mouse parts (I chop up F/T mouse fuzzy's) and I am going to try hard boiled egg and scrambled egg (cook in microwave in bowl - NO OIL/Fat, etc.) as well as boiled ground turkey and boiled chicken pieces. Frank likes the latter as well, in addition to the snails, a favorite of his.

If that isn't a varied carnivorous diet, I don't know what is!

For what it's worth, Dianne, I keep the open cans in the wine cooler (for up to a week - I date them). The unopened cans stay good for 2-3 years (they have an expiration date on each can) on the shelf with no need to refrigerate. I wouldn't keep the in the regular fridge...not that I care, but I wouldn't dare risk Katie finding out! Toref and I might be sharing an enclosure if that happene; I do not think I'd be sleeping in the bedroom that night.

:sarcasm:

I do the same for the Frozen rodents for the snakes. I also have a lot of those! Chest freezer! It's near the wine cooler too! So that all works out great.

Oh, and Dianne....

MONITOR, MONITOR, MONITOR, MONITOR!!!!!!!!!!

Leachies are cool too and they eat powdered food mixed with water. Food for thought :).

I love Ezzy and Ferry (my two Rhachodactylus), with Ferry being much more active of the two, but they are both active at night, like everyone else except Frank. I am loving how active Toref is, and during the day as well.

Bad David, bad bad! LOL.

Definitely food for thought. I’ve also looked at cresties because of Zina’s posts with her little cutie. I have to admit that Toref is too cute for words...love how active he is. Still, I need to behave myself for a while. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dianne

Bad David, bad bad! LOL.

Definitely food for thought. I’ve also looked at cresties because of Zina’s posts with her little cutie. I have to admit that Toref is too cute for words...love how active he is. Still, I need to behave myself for a while. ;)

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I understand and was truly joking/teasing.

Not many breeders in the country; many more Ackie breeders.

If you ever are interested, I'll hook you up. Otherwise, feel free to live vicariously through me.

Cresties are adorable too and you cannot go wrong with one. I do think Zina10's Smeagol is particularly photogenic. However, you are talking about a whole other ball game when talking Crestie vs. Monitor. It's like a corn snake vs. a Boa. Not that one is better than the other, just completely different animals.

Good for you being disciplined. I greatly respect that.

Congratulations on your new family member!
What a cool little guy, gotta love the personality of monitors especially the tree variety.
Seems like you're taking all the right steps to getting the little guy socialized.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa6..._as=subscriber

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScalesFins&Feathers

Congratulations on your new family member!
What a cool little guy, gotta love the personality of monitors especially the tree variety.
Seems like you're taking all the right steps to getting the little guy socialized.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa6..._as=subscriber

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Thank you.

The socializing part is a challenge, but I am up for it, and I know it will be incredibly rewarding in the long run.

Thank you for the link/videos.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dakski

I understand and was truly joking/teasing.

Not many breeders in the country; many more Ackie breeders.

If you ever are interested, I'll hook you up. Otherwise, feel free to live vicariously through me.

Cresties are adorable too and you cannot go wrong with one. I do think Zina10's Smeagol is particularly photogenic. However, you are talking about a whole other ball game when talking Crestie vs. Monitor. It's like a corn snake vs. a Boa. Not that one is better than the other, just completely different animals.

Good for you being disciplined. I greatly respect that.

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I know you’re teasing..as am I...but they ARE tempting. 😁

I am trying to be disciplined. I have 15 snakes right now, with one other bp I’m looking to bring home once the temperatures stabilize for shipping. Wouldn’t you know we’re getting a warm spell next week when I’ll be out of town. 🙄 Crossing my fingers for some milder temps in February. This has been a chilly winter with quite a few days well below freezing. It was 10 when I got up and 12 when I left for work. That probably doesn’t sound all that bad for some of you up north, but my thin southern blood wants it at least 60. lol

I plan to revamp my cages in the not too distant future. Once I do that and sell the existing 8’ cages, I’ll have a better idea of what kind of space I’ll have left over, if any. I also have to consider how much daily cleaning, feeding, and interacting my work schedule will really allow. The snakes are the ideal pet in many ways because even with 15 I don’t have daily cleaning. That said I can usually count on several of them going at once with multiple cages to clean, and can count on at least 2-3 cleaning days per week.

An animal that requires daily interaction, feeding and/or cleaning won’t fit in my current schedule, there are just too many long days right now. I don’t feel it is fair to an animal to bring them into a situation where they won’t get proper timely care or where I can’t keep to a regular feeding schedule. The snakes are mostly nocturnal, so feeding late evenings isn’t an issue. Still, I know you’ll post lots of pictures, so I can “share” the experience through you. 😊

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dianne

I know you’re teasing..as am I...but they ARE tempting. 😁

I am trying to be disciplined. I have 15 snakes right now, with one other bp I’m looking to bring home once the temperatures stabilize for shipping. Wouldn’t you know we’re getting a warm spell next week when I’ll be out of town. 🙄 Crossing my fingers for some milder temps in February. This has been a chilly winter with quite a few days well below freezing. It was 10 when I got up and 12 when I left for work. That probably doesn’t sound all that bad for some of you up north, but my thin southern blood wants it at least 60. lol

I plan to revamp my cages in the not too distant future. Once I do that and sell the existing 8’ cages, I’ll have a better idea of what kind of space I’ll have left over, if any. I also have to consider how much daily cleaning, feeding, and interacting my work schedule will really allow. The snakes are the ideal pet in many ways because even with 15 I don’t have daily cleaning. That said I can usually count on several of them going at once with multiple cages to clean, and can count on at least 2-3 cleaning days per week.

An animal that requires daily interaction, feeding and/or cleaning won’t fit in my current schedule, there are just too many long days right now. I don’t feel it is fair to an animal to bring them into a situation where they won’t get proper timely care or where I can’t keep to a regular feeding schedule. The snakes are mostly nocturnal, so feeding late evenings isn’t an issue. Still, I know you’ll post lots of pictures, so I can “share” the experience through you. 😊

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Dianne,

Toref needs daily interaction now, but as an adult, will eat every other day and can interact a few times a week to keep the bond. Now it's work because I am building the bond; like having a puppy.

He does poop regularly, but I use paper substrate, and have to remove him, the logs, and the paper to clean. I am doing that every 5-7 days, not daily.

Is he more work than the snakes? Absolutely. He is and will easily be the most work of all my animals. However, he's not a burden as the interaction is rewarding. If I had to guess I would say 1 Toref = 4 to 5 snakes in work (boids and pythons). He probably equals 2 corns or other colubrids who poop all the time.

Additionally, he's loving the canned stuff.

Today I offered a wax worm, a Dubai roach, cut up cockroach and cut up silkworm. He devoured everything canned and left the live roach and the live wax worm!

What a weirdo! Either way, that bodes well for those who want a monitor, but do not want to feed live insects.

Not pushing you at all. Just clarifying.

Good luck redoing your space and keep us in the loop.

I will keep updating on Toref.

Gahhh I am so jealous!!!!! S/he is SO CUTE!!!! I am in love and fascinated with monitors! I hope you enjoy it and post a lot of updates for all of us!

Side note, where did you get those awesome branches and bark?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jessibelle

Gahhh I am so jealous!!!!! S/he is SO CUTE!!!! I am in love and fascinated with monitors! I hope you enjoy it and post a lot of updates for all of us!

Side note, where did you get those awesome branches and bark?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Thank you. He's pretty cool. He will be even cooler when I win his trust and can interact with him without hysterics! He doesn't bite or anything, but boy does he squirm. Good thing he's pretty tough.

I think he's the perfect monitor (for me anyway). He will stay small, but has the personality and spunk of the bigger monitors. He also is active and climbs, etc. He found his hides the other day and has been spending a lot of time in them. However, he comes out for food and water and has an incredible sense of smell. I put fresh water in this morning (he always has water, but sometime wood pieces fall into it overnight while he's running around). Not sure if putting fresh water in made him think about it, or was just curious what I was doing, but he came over after a minute and drank. It was really cute.

As mentioned, I like these guys and Ackies (which are easier to find), but love the climbing/arboreal aspect of him.

Most of the branches/wood are cork bark. Expensive, but great. I use it for my leachie and chewie too (Ezzy and Ferry). I take it out 1X a week, F10SC it, then rinse with water, let it dry, and it's good to go the next day. I have two sets for everyone so I can rotate.

The small flat pieces are some form of treated wood. I'll have to ask my buddy how owns the local reptile shop, where I got them.

You can get flat pieces of cork bark too and use a lot of those and will as Toref gets bigger. It's much studier than what's in there now, but he's tiny now.

I made a video compilation of Toref eating a ton today. He actually ate more after this! There a couple items left in the food bowl after an hour. WOW!

https://streamable.com/qdrgz

Enjoy!

Thought for sure he was going to grab the dubia...the motion caught his attention but I guess it didn't smell good enough? or should I say "bad enough"? :D

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Thought for sure he was going to grab the dubia...the motion caught his attention but I guess it didn't smell good enough? or should I say "bad enough"? :D

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I think "bad enough" is correct! Those canned bugs smell awful. However, he loves them. I cannot wait until he's big enough that I don't have to cut them into tiny pieces. Yuck!

He doesn't seem to dig the Dubai, but loves the canned cockroaches. Oh well.

Toref is looking good post shed and growing like a weed. Way to quick to weigh, but he's got to be 25% larger already.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/BLFjkP6.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/UfAp7mJ.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/1hWJRCf.jpg

Toref is still pretty shy, but boy is he eating like a pig, and growing!

Here some pictures from the past two days and a video of him eating today (including 1 where he attacked from above while hanging on his log). He's eating bigger pieces now and I don't have to cut the insects and mice up so fine. He also doesn't seem to mind the calcium and vitamin dusting I do 1X a week.

He eats mouse parts 2X a week and insects (cockroaches, crickets, and grasshopper are his favorites) 5-6X a week. His diet is varied and the insects are steamed in the can to preserve nutrients, however, they are not live. He doesn't seem to care for the live dubai and he's too small now for mealworms or superworms (plus he avoids them when in his dish from the can). With live food, I usually supplement for my other animals, but they get the benefit of me gut-loading the bugs. However, they also do not have UV lighting (Leopard Geckos and Ferry the Chewie). Toref has UV light, but he is eating dead prey items, so I supplement him as well. Calcium 1-2X a week and multi vitamin 1X a week.

Video of Toref Destroying Canned Cockroach parts: https://streamable.com/9ozs1

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/QRcMteM.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/yZCggcc.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/MFNmmWE.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/8xhGJzK.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/Bz3BkHP.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/8wrfoTC.jpg

He's so handsome & looking more confident too. :gj: I give him about a year & then we'll also need a video of you, counting your fingers...:rofl:

David, I don’t appreciate you making me want a Toref as bad as I am right now! HE’S TOO CUTE! I love him. So jelly of you and Katie’s collection. [emoji38]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

He's so handsome & looking more confident too. :gj: I give him about a year & then we'll also need a video of you, counting your fingers...:rofl:

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LOL! Actually not too worried on the finger part. He's pretty chill and when I go to pick him (1X a week to clean enclosure) he does spaz for a minute, but then more calm when I hold him. No letting him walk on me yet as he's way too fast. I have to restrain him and put him in a holding container. I also have to be very careful when I put him back. He's still rather small and super fast. Big and fast I can deal with, but also, he is supposed to calm down with age.

Regardless, he has made zero attempts at me at this small size. He hisses sometimes, but then calms down when I pick him. He was super squirmy in the beginning, but even that is dissipating.

Still waiting until he's a lot bigger to work on taming him down. For now, I am focusing on him seeing a lot of me and me watching him eat, etc. He's getting more comfortable with that.

He is definitely acting more confident and he sure is handsome, especially after the recent shed. His face is starting to look less baby like as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jessibelle

David, I don’t appreciate you making me want a Toref as bad as I am right now! HE’S TOO CUTE! I love him. So jelly of you and Katie’s collection. [emoji38]


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Sorry Jessibelle! He is pretty cool though. I'll have to see how he is when he's bigger and chills out some. That will be the litmus test on recommending them (Freckled Tree Monitors) as good pets as opposed to display animals. I think he will get there though.

He really is fun to watch. I should get a video of him just crawling and climbing all around his tank.

Also, it's MY Collection. ALL MINE!

LOL - JK. I do 98% of the work and 90% of the interaction. However, Katie does enjoy interacting when she feels like it. She especially loves holding Ezzy and Ferry and feeding Ferry. I am incredibly happy she shares the reptiles with me and allows me/embraces me having them, all of them, in our house.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dakski

LOL! Actually not too worried on the finger part. He's pretty chill and when I go to pick him (1X a week to clean enclosure) he does spaz for a minute, but then more calm when I hold him. No letting him walk on me yet as he's way too fast. I have to restrain him and put him in a holding container. I also have to be very careful when I put him back. He's still rather small and super fast. Big and fast I can deal with, but also, he is supposed to calm down with age.

Regardless, he has made zero attempts at me at this small size. He hisses sometimes, but then calms down when I pick him. He was super squirmy in the beginning, but even that is dissipating.

Still waiting until he's a lot bigger to work on taming him down. For now, I am focusing on him seeing a lot of me and me watching him eat, etc. He's getting more comfortable with that.

He is definitely acting more confident and he sure is handsome, especially after the recent shed. His face is starting to look less baby like as well.



Sorry Jessibelle! He is pretty cool though. I'll have to see how he is when he's bigger and chills out some. That will be the litmus test on recommending them (Freckled Tree Monitors) as good pets as opposed to display animals. I think he will get there though.

He really is fun to watch. I should get a video of him just crawling and climbing all around his tank.

Also, it's MY Collection. ALL MINE!

LOL - JK. I do 98% of the work and 90% of the interaction. However, Katie does enjoy interacting when she feels like it. She especially loves holding Ezzy and Ferry and feeding Ferry. I am incredibly happy she shares the reptiles with me and allows me/embraces me having them, all of them, in our house.

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Hahaha! Katie has the best of all worlds. 2% of the work, and as much of the handling as she wants, or 10% I guess. If only I could get my husband more on board... [emoji23]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jessibelle

Hahaha! Katie has the best of all worlds. 2% of the work, and as much of the handling as she wants, or 10% I guess. If only I could get my husband more on board... [emoji23]


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She can have as much time with the reptiles as she wants. She usually wants about 10%. It's Katie limited, not Dave limited.

Good luck working on your hubby.

Close call today.

I cannot begin to explain how fast Toref is. Think Speedy Gonzalez meets the Roadrunner and trapped in a 20"X12"X12" tank! He's insane. He's okay until I put my hand in. He still totally freaks when I do that.

Today, while trying to grab him (after taking out all the logs, etc), he managed to squirt out the tiny opening in the doors where my hand was. Jumped on the floor! He was as surprised as I was and I was able to snag him. Scared me to death. I could have lost him. I've never had an animal this fast and this frenetic and this afraid of me. Once I picked him up, he was pretty calm, or so it seemed.

I held him for a minute to show him I wouldn't hurt him. No biting, no hissing. However, the little PITA crapped in my hand. He's lucky he's cute.

Anyway, I am going to put my hand in more and just keep it there, let him see it and smell it.

There is no way he's moving to a bigger tank anytime soon.

I may even get a net to put over the door so if he runs out, he runs into that. Today was too scary.

Sounds like the perfect nickname for him...:rolleyes: "Squirt"! :rofl:

Can't really blame him for decorating your hand though...can you guarantee you wouldn't do the same thing if some giant suddenly picked you up? He thought
he was done for and that was supposed to make you release him- he can't help it you're so hard to gross out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Sounds like the perfect nickname for him...:rolleyes: "Squirt"! :rofl:

Can't really blame him for decorating your hand though...can you guarantee you wouldn't do the same thing if some giant suddenly picked you up? He thought
he was done for and that was supposed to make you release him- he can't help it you're so hard to gross out.

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Yeah, he definitely is a "Squirt."

I didn't blame him at all. I totally understand. Having said that, I was not pleased :).

I wouldn't be either, lol...maybe you can patch things up with him by addressing him as "The Lizard King" from now on...:D hahaha!

Just give him time. I had Nile and Savannah monitors that did the same. Tank the Gila is just starting to accept me. Been about 3 weeks. Dozer though is very social for a Gila. Try wearing a leather glove or shirt all day to get your scent and then put it in the cage.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Just give him time. I had Nile and Savannah monitors that did the same. Tank the Gila is just starting to accept me. Been about 3 weeks. Dozer though is very social for a Gila. Try wearing a leather glove or shirt all day to get your scent and then put it in the cage.

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Thanks for the boost of confidence, Sauzo.

I thought of a t-shirt, but haven't tried it. Good idea.

Thank you again.

Glad he didn’t manage “the great escape”...good catch. Sorry to hear about the additional gift...maybe he was marking you as his? lol

Really glad he's ok Dave

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When Toref smells food, he goes a little nutty! He usually climbs all over the place before settling down and eating.

See video below.

https://streamable.com/q2rwn

I can really relate...it's way past my lunch time & I just got back from the gym & then an hour of swim, lol....feed that poor thing! :rofl: Gotta go get mine too.

hey dakski, i've seen so many post from you about a lot of different reptiles. what is in your full collection? :)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I can really relate...it's way past my lunch time & I just got back from the gym & then an hour of swim, lol....feed that poor thing! :rofl: Gotta go get mine too.

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The food was in the tank. He was doing his pre-food exercise :).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dakski

The food was in the tank. He was doing his pre-food exercise :).

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Really! I thought he was just smelling food outside his home, he was all over the place...pretty excitable fellow.