Baby short tailed python not eating

My baby borneo stopped eating all of a sudden in November. He is about 7 months old now, weighing 128g. He was in the high 130s about a month ago.

He used to be a garbage disposal, eating any frozen i tossed to him. I can leave with him in a small container, I can leave it in the enclosure all night, I can blast it with a hair dryer and he will not take anything. For a fat bodied snake, he's thinned out now. He went to the vet on Wednesday and they could tell me nothing. We did a fecal, they xrayed him to check for a blockage (think maybe constipated), and I was sent home with the instructions to soak him more. Nothing came of the tests they did, everything is normal.

I've been playing with his heat, dropping it a few degrees and raising it at my vet's suggestion, but I prefer to keep it at 85f. Humidity is harder to do, and idk if my digital thing is accurate, but today it's at 70%. He has a huge water dish that he can fit his whole body in and the enclosure is a 15qt tub. Nothing has changed since I got him, he's a real tiny guy so an enclosure upgrade is not needed.

I did get him to eat live twice during all this, however, there is a damn mouse shortage in my area. I've called the 3 pet shops that carry feeders in my area 2 weeks in a row now and we haven't had any brought in. Monday i will call once more but im out of hope.

If you need live bite the bullet an pay pet prices. Go on face book an look for rodent groups an reptile groups. One your buying a pet the other your looking for keepers that are backyard prey breeders.

List your general location here an somebody might help you out.

Good luck!

Pics of the setup? Give him a substrate he can burrow in if he's not already. I assume you've double checked your temps, ambient and hot spot with a temp gun? You said temp is 85, is that the hot spot or all over? I keep mine around 77-81 ambient and then with a little warmer on the hot spot. He hasn't been off feed long, but I'm wondering how long you have had him and what the feeding schedule was before, if he was eating well for months I'd expect him to be quite a bit heavier.

I know that BPs will fast from weeks to months sometimes. but I don't know about the short tailed python, especially the babies. all I can say is I hope he or she starts eating again! :gj:

His setup is quite simple, honestly. I have coconut husk deep enough for him to burrow. He's always underground so the rest of the bin is a little plain, I admit, with one plastic hide and a water dish that takes up one 4th of the enclosure. I'll see if I can figure out how to attach a picture

I have a heat gun. But I'm 99% sure it's faulty. (Thats what I get for going cheap I guess.) Right now the thermostat for the heating pad reads 82 degrees and my room temp is around 70, so I imagine ambient isn't much better.

In the beginning I fed him rat pinks every 7 days, he was about 80g. Just before this fast I increased the food size to fuzzies/ small pups, about every 10 days or so cause he was real thick.

Sounds to me like he is too chilly then, can you do something to raise the ambient temps? What the thermostat is set at and what the temp is in the enclosure are often two different numbers entirely. I would bet if you get your heat to proper levels, he'll eat and until then it might be better he's skipping out or he wouldn't digest well anyways. I'd back off feeding to every 10 days and wouldn't offer anything smaller than a rat pup, moving up to weans quickly. You can get a decent temp gun for about $20-25, I always have a couple on hand to test off each other.

how do I raise a plastic tubs temp? I can't do a lamp or anything like that.

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

how do I raise a plastic tubs temp? I can't do a lamp or anything like that.

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heat mat, but make sure you get a thermostat that can hook up with it or else the heat mat could cook your animal!

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Originally Posted by BoopsTheBallPython

heat mat, but make sure you get a thermostat that can hook up with it or else the heat mat could cook your animal!

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Heat mats do nothing for ambient temps


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Heat mats do nothing for ambient temps


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Well, not much, anyway. For further explanation: Heat rises, but usually there's too much air to warm, and in order to raise the ambient temperature enough with a UTH (heat mat), you'd end up with an unsafe "floor" temperature for those snakes needing higher overall (ambient) temperatures in the enclosure. I use UTH for all my snakes, but I have colubrids that mostly don't need so much heat- they do fine using a hide placed over the UTH (the hide helps to hold in some of the heat) and with some supplemental overhead heating as needed.

Also, your ambient house temperature makes a big difference too- the colder the room is, the more heat loss you'll have in any kind of enclosures. One way to help keep the heat "in" is by insulating your enclosures, but tubs don't really lend themselves to that the way either glass tanks or rectangular plastic enclosures do. When using plastic tubs, you need to be careful so you don't melt the tub with supplemental heating devices: thermostats & vigilance are essential for safety no matter what kind of heat (or lights) you're using.

How big is the heat mat relative to the "floor"? You never (!) want to heat the whole floor, but as long as it's regulated, you might want to use a larger one (or use 2) during cold seasons. Just a thought, if it's true that the the temps. are too low & if that's what is causing the snake to refuse food. I'm not one that uses plastic tubs of any kind though, so I'm sure that those who do may have more suggestions. I also have no experience specifically with this species, so by all means listen most to the members here that do- see what their set-ups are like. One thing: if you put the water bowl over the UTH, that can help to raise the humidity a little.

One other thing to think about when using UTH: the amount & type (density) of substrate that you use makes a big difference for how much the UTH can raise the ambient temperatures. When you're keeping a snake that burrows, or one that needs more humidity, your substrate is deeper, & that is basically acting as insulation that PREVENTS some of the heat from rising into the tub, unfortunately. That's why your UTH may not be enough. There are many variables- it's challenging to get set up to meet the exact needs of the occupant. It usually takes some adjustments for your specific situation.

I do have a heat mat thats a bit larger. It won't cover my whole bin but hopefully we can supply more heat. (With a thermostat ofc)

I asked for help on a discord as well and I made some adjustments to the enclosure at their suggestionl. I had it a little bare, but I stuck a plant in and a extra hide and really cluttered it for him. I shall ignore him for now and try feeding again after 10-14 days of a break from me.

Here's hoping...:gj:

He's still not eating, despite my attempts to change the enclosure and provide additional heating. I still have no access to live food, every petstore in the area is unable to get ahold of mice. (Rats are banned from stores unfortunately.) I really think there is something going on here that slipped past the vet and I cannot figure out.

But anyways, I decided to make an attempt at tube feeding. He took down some critical care mix with decent ease, and suddenly now he's going into blue. His body conditions hasn't changed at all, but if any thing, he looks worse. The shed might be a good thing though?

The tube-feed & shed might help him get his metabolism going & his appetite back again- at least, I hope so. I'd have probably tried that too.

He kept it down which I'm happy about. I did about 2mls of the stuff with a 2:1 ratio of more water than mix, as recommended by the vet. I phoned them today, and they said to do one more feed in a week at about 4mls. I hope he sheds that fast but I doubt it, I'm assuming they want me to do it regardless of what condition he's in.

And I know snakes don't move around. That's just their thing. But this guy doesn't seem to move AT ALL- I know I can't prove it but I'm genuinely convinced he plants himself somewhere and doesn't worry about thermo regulating or taking a drink or anything. He just becomes a rock. Low key worried about dehydration because I *thought* these snakes were soakers. I keep my humidity high enough but we all gotta drink something don't we?

I don't know the first thing about short tails so I can't help at all, but I hope he starts doing better. Glad he kept down the tube feeding food for you.

Rodentpro has extra small chicks on sale and im tempted to grab some. Bloods/short tailed really like birds from what I read and I wonder if he'd take one.

I just don't want 25 of them lmao.

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

Rodentpro has extra small chicks on sale and im tempted to grab some. Bloods/short tailed really like birds from what I read and I wonder if he'd take one.

I just don't want 25 of them lmao.

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Well if he likes 'em, you might be glad to have 25. Cost of shipping isn't practical for small orders anyway.

Still hesitating because I fear he's too small to take one. They're up to one ounce even as extra smalls, my guy is 124g atm and so thin. I'm amazed his weight isnt fluctuating much. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...129_195212.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...129_195116.jpg

I haven't found short tails to love birds at all, but maybe that's just mine. I offer it a couple times a year, quail or chicken but only a couple accept them easily. I've had no luck with DOC and picky eaters but they can be easily chopped up if need be, that's one advantage. You might be able to find someone with just a few through a feed store or posting locally on FB.


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https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...%2F98qfzDH.png
Yeah, I can see what you mean- you'd want something about a half an ounce, I guess, according to this ^ ^ ^. What about some other kind of chicks? I think there's an online source of quail chicks?

Here it is, just in case you want to try quail chicks: https://www.laynelabs.com/other-feeders/frozen-quail

Using Layne triples my price and I get less for the money, so I went with the rodentpro chicks. They're large... but I'm hoping I could remove the heads.

I'm loosing my faith with him, though. He isn't progressing at all and just keeps loosing weight. I did another tube feed as the vet recommended, and now 2 days later I've found him all dehydrated despite my efforts for high humidity.. I got him to drink a fair amount of water but he's just a sack of bones.

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

Using Layne triples my price and I get less for the money, so I went with the rodentpro chicks. They're large... but I'm hoping I could remove the heads.

I'm loosing my faith with him, though. He isn't progressing at all and just keeps loosing weight. I did another tube feed as the vet recommended, and now 2 days later I've found him all dehydrated despite my efforts for high humidity.. I got him to drink a fair amount of water but he's just a sack of bones.

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It can be very discouraging when you have one like this. That might work, your plan with the chicks- I hope so. I haven't fed many chicks, but as I recall they're quite digestible, so that will help them "stay down", hopefully. I know Layne Labs is pricey- they do have a good reputation at least.

I really feel you should go back to basics here, it's not the food that's the problem. He ate fine until November, when temps dropped. Your snake is either cold or feels insecure. Have you gotten your temps warmer? If his ambient is at 70, he's not going to eat. Your cage is really quite large and open for a baby short tail python, the hides look too large and aren't identical. I would go to a smaller tub, two tight hides, water bowl in the middle, deep substrate and leave him alone for a week before you offer anything and try to find live to offer.

This is the kinda stuff I hate with the reptile community, lol. I made the enclosure larger because I was being hounded for having it so small and basic on a discord I'm in.

I can place him back in the 15qt I have if it won't stress him too much. I can go out and purchase other hides as well. As for temps, I'm using a bigger heat mat as was suggested. My ambient only improved slightly to 72ish, according to the temp gun. I wrapped a towel around the enclosure and I am reading 75f on the warmer side closest to hot spot.

Reddit is also suggesting I go out and purchase a 6qt tub. Which I can happily go to find.

6qt is what breeders usually recommend starting hatchlings in, if he was already in the 15qt and eating I'd try him back in that first but small and basic is exactly what baby snakes crave. He's not refusing food because of lack of enrichment or because he's bored, you have to learn to ignore people that are more concerned with it looking pretty or nice from a human perspective and realize from the snakes view, that's just a huge scary open space potentially full of predators. Good temps and feeling safe and secure is what gets snakes eating. Your ambient needs to be more around 78-81, I wouldn't want it dropping lower than 75 across the entire cage or you are looking at digestive and RI issues to pop up too.

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

This is the kinda stuff I hate with the reptile community, lol. I made the enclosure larger because I was being hounded for having it so small and basic on a discord I'm in.

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Unfortunately there are a lot of people (with good intentions) that really don't understand what certain species of animals really need, and they demonize people who do because they think it's cruel to "confine animals to small spaces". Some animals that is cruel, but certain species of reptiles thrive in spaces much smaller than the average person would expect.

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

how do I raise a plastic tubs temp? I can't do a lamp or anything like that.

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before I upgraded to an AP cage, I used a tub, and I had a CHE hanging over one side for warmer ambient temps

the tub you are using it pretty tall so I'm not sure a CHE would have the same effectiveness as mine, but I bet it would raise temps in there at least somewhat.

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

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I can place him back in the 15qt I have if it won't stress him too much. I can go out and purchase other hides as well. As for temps, I'm using a bigger heat mat as was suggested. My ambient only improved slightly to 72ish, according to the temp gun. I wrapped a towel around the enclosure and I am reading 75f on the warmer side closest to hot spot.

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I think you finally answered your own question. 72* Ambient, etc. :( You're the only one who can fix this, your snake is relying on you to provide what he most needs. He's stuck without options, & snakes that are too cold simply do not eat.

Temperature is the most important thing, but also feeling "secure"- so for now, I'd go back to what was working- the smaller container. He needs to be eating.
The smaller one may have been working because it was easier to adequately warm to his liking-? While he gets back to eating in that one, you can work on & test the container he needs to grow into, but eating (digesting) is "job #1"- for his survival.

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

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I can place him back in the 15qt I have if it won't stress him too much. I can go out and purchase other hides as well. As for temps, I'm using a bigger heat mat as was suggested. My ambient only improved slightly to 72ish, according to the temp gun. I wrapped a towel around the enclosure and I am reading 75f on the warmer side closest to hot spot.

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This is winter (I'm assuming your general location- U.S.) so is the room where he is now colder??? You need to find ways to keep adequate warmth in whatever tub or enclosure he's in- even when the room is colder, or keeping a snake just won't work for you. Seriously.

... I'm aware of that. And I've asked how to do it. I was told to get a bigger heat mat and I did, and it improved things only slightly. I'm going to test out a lamp, but I'm afraid of the melting plastic and the smells that come with it. What if I just went and picked up a 5 or 10 gal to put him in? Would it be too small? I'd rather fight with humidity.

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

... I'm aware of that. And I've asked how to do it. I was told to get a bigger heat mat and I did, and it improved things only slightly. I'm going to test out a lamp, but I'm afraid of the melting plastic and the smells that come with it. What if I just went and picked up a 5 or 10 gal to put him in? Would it be too small? I'd rather fight with humidity.

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That might be an improvement...because for one thing, it's a lot easier to insulate a glass tank- the sides are straight up & down, & there are various things you can attach (even corrugated cardboard, sheet cork, foam-board or poster board with a foam core, etc) that will help the warmth* stay where it's needed- INSIDE.

*Not all heat pads are created equal- some put out more heat more than others, & all should be controlled by thermostat for safety. Still, it's possible that the wattage of what you're using is just not adequate...either that, or your room is too cold- remember that heat rises (up & out of the enclosure) & cold air sinks downward- Have you tried putting his home on a higher table or shelf? Rooms are colder nearest the floor. Tried warming the room better?

We aren't IN your home- we cannot see exactly what the problem is- we can only offer suggestions, but we cannot fix it for you. I understand you're frustrated...in part, because you're getting answers from various places all at once. As far as the size (5 or 10 gal?) being correct, match the "floor dimensions" to what he has done well in for you- & realize at some point you'll need to size up when he grows, but for now, he needs to be eating- otherwise you won't have a pet left to worry about anyway. If this is what you need to safely use some added overheat heating, then by all means, get going on it. Your profile shows this is not your only snake, so I'm not clear why this one is giving you so much difficulty, as far as setting up his housing. Your other snakes are eating, right?

Moving to a 5-10 gal aquarium will make things worse as glass is a worse insulator than plastic and there is more volume to have to heat.

Why not just heat the room up? Shut the door, put in a small heater. With an ambient room temp of 70*F most enclosures will have issues.

And that ^ ^ ^ would be the easiest solution (warming the room!) & would likely be appreciated by your other snakes too. ;)

And cheaper than buying a tank + heat lamp fixture + bulb. Should have been done weeks ago.

I do have him on the floor near to a vent, hoping the warm air coming from it would help. I can move him onto my desk. I guess my issue here is the whole plastic tote thing. He's my only animal that lives in one, everyone else is doing fantastic and eating like champs, besides my leopard gecko who's brumating right now. My room is about 70 degrees. I really really want a small portable heater, however my dad's convinced one would burn the house down. I've combatted the issue with my other snakes with my "winter" lamps that I only need during this time.

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Originally Posted by Dinoanc

I do have him on the floor near to a vent, hoping the warm air coming from it would help. I can move him onto my desk. I guess my issue here is the whole plastic tote thing. He's my only animal that lives in one, everyone else is doing fantastic and eating like champs, besides my leopard gecko who's brumating right now. My room is about 70 degrees. I really really want a small portable heater, however my dad's convinced one would burn the house down. I've combatted the issue with my other snakes with my "winter" lamps that I only need during this time.

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Get him off the floor. ;) Sure, it's warm next to the vent when the F/A heat is on, but in-between times it's chillier- up, down, up, down...no wonder he's not eating. When snakes feel a chill, that's their signal to quit eating *instinctively* so they don't get caught with undigestible food rotting in their stomach...that can actually kill them. Get him set up higher up with more even-keel temperatures.

I do understand where your dad is coming from...statistically, space heaters can be dangerous. (For that matter, so can lamps- they can start fires when knocked over by pets etc.) But you own this python that's going to die from starvation if you don't fix his conditions...how you do it is up to you now, you know what he needs. I can't promise that just moving his home higher up in the room will get him eating now, and you are running out of time to keep him healthy. You don't have "forever" to test this out.

I make no secret that I'm a glass, not a plastic "fan" for caging herps, but either one can be made to work- each has pro's & con's. In your case, if you can't run a space heater to make your room warmer, an insulated glass tank might be better, but the downside is that it's also one more scary change for your snake. He already "knows" (ie. felt safe enough to eat while living in) his previous smaller tub, so that is something to keep in mind right now too. < I think that's what I'd do first, if I were you- go back to what was working, get him off the floor- & get him eating.