Bad shipping procedures

I hope this is a lesson to new fresh shippers out there and Im sure that most know this but...

I recently bought a male pin and we were holding off on shipping bc of the weather. Monday the shipper contacted me and asked bc of the temps if I wanted to hold off. As a shipper myself I started asking about his shipping procedures and asking if he had certain supplies ie: 40 hr heat packs a couple of ship your reptiles boxes the styrofoam inserts and a styrofoam cooler box. When I ship in cold weather around 32.F I use all of these supplies on 1 shipment. It's always worked well and my animals have arrived safely. I was told he did and since the temps were in range I said that was the only way I was comfortable shipping. We agreed and he told me that if he was going to ship out he'd give me a call. I didn't hear from him and assumed he didn't ship but sent an email anyways to find out. The next morning my doorbell rang and ups dropped off a single cardboard box. I knew immediately that my pinstripe was dead. I opened the box and it was true. I was already In shock that he never called to give tracking, and used the company that I wasn't comfortable with, but also that he never followed what method of packing we both agreed was safest. I pulled apart the packaging, a little crumpled newspaper, and two handwarmers and I was compleatly disgusted that not only was I lied to and the animal died. But this snake never had a chance! Hand warmers are not heat packs especially 40 hr heat packs, they aren't ever ok to ship reptiles with . And a single box is not adequate for winter shipping in my experience. Even though I asked questions and was most definatley lied to this is a lesson to me that not everyone cares or cares to learn how to safely ship these guys. It can be done safely and it's our responsibility to provide it for them.
Morgan Weiss

That stinks. If someone tells me that they have the proper materials to ship me any item I expect it to be packaged right. This holds especially true with live animals. What was the sellers response when you told him/her that the snake arrived dead? Also sorry for the loss, and what a shame.

Wow are you kidding me!?

And yes, what was his response???

What was his name? I'm sure after hearing that story that I'm not the only one who would like to avoid any dealings with this person.

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

What was his name? I'm sure after hearing that story that I'm not the only one who would like to avoid any dealings with this person.

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I was thinking the same thing...

x3

I can't even believe someone would take shipping a reptile so lightly. It NEEDS heat!

WHAT A LOSER! thats just sad. i x4 we need to know about this person lol

Were like the mob :rofl:
Grab your pitch forks and torches.......? :confused:



:P:P:P:P:P

I would have be pee od. I hope you gave him a good talking to. I agree he does need a pitch fork.

Yes I had a pretty good cry just to see an animal go through something like that is pretty awful but to be the receiver and already know was heartwrenching. I couldn't reach him on the phone surprise surprise but left a surprisingly calm message that pretty much said this definately wasn't what you told me you were going to do. And lying to me probably wasn't the greatest choice bc I would have at least tried to educate before an animals life was lost. And if you had given me honest answers I never would have said send him through. I think anyone beyond him could have seen that was a death sentence. I also sent him an email immediately with pictures of the animal and packaging to document. He responded with:

"I am sorry for what happened.When i packed the animal he had 3 heat packs and i was kinda of scraed of it being to mutch heat.A heat pack was taped to each end of the box and asmall heat pack was taped to the lid.Before i shipped him out i even shot the box with a heat gun on the out side of the box and the temps wereinthe mid eighty's on the box.I felt very comfortable shipping him the way i packed him.I have recieved many of animals in the mail, and i duplicated the way people have shipped to me and i have never had any probs.I will be out of town for the next 2 wks.I do feel bad for what happened this is the first time i have had something go wrong shipping an animal"
First of all I am awaiting for another email from him with hopefully a bit more detail in it about what in the world happened with this whole thing. I also am giving him a chance to Make things right with me and maybe learn how or take a little advice on the right way to ship before I make every bit of his business public. My second step will be to jump over to fauna and post on the boi. Secondly even if he had 3 handwarmers in there it wouldn't have made a bit of difference bc they are crap. Those are not 40 hr heat packs which I specifically asked about more than once. Which he said he had more than once. But at this point I've gotten a gee I'm sorry I don't know what happened. Super that makes me feel so much better. In sure more updates will come as he answers or doesn't. I find it funny that he's out of town and could answer the first email but not the second pretty much saying ok you may haven't had problems yet or will admit that you have but the fact remains what are you going to do about this. It's not like the package was sitting on my doorstep all day. Or you packed him like you said you were going to and he still died. You didn't even try. So we need to come to a solution.
Keep the fires lit and the pitch forks out.
Morgan

The sellers response just wouldn't cut it for me. I also really find it funny that he is out of town for the next two weeks. It really sounds like a stalling tactic to me. Please keep us updated. I hope that this person will make things right for you, and also learn from these mistakes.

Morgan

I can understand why you are being calm and not wanting to post on the BOI. Wait till you get your refund, but I would definetly give Paypal a heads up on the situation and that you are waiting for reimbursment. That way if it doesn't come at least they will have record of it and it will be easier for you to get your $$ money from them.

Even if you get your money from this person....please do post up on the BOI. Many of us look at that before ever considering to purchase an animal.

How very sad :/

Not to sound ignorant, although I probably am about to, but what is BOI and fauna?

Yes I've already alerted pp. I think anyone deserves the consideration to atleast have me be thorough about this which thing. But in the end it was his packing that killed this animal and it getting too cold for him. Fauna is another forum and there's a section in it called the Board Of Inquiry. It's a great place to look for shady dealers and bad business. If this doesn't get righted I'll be posting here and there. Id like to know if this was a huge judgement mistake and he just figured it'll be ok or if he cared at all or didn't before letting loose the fury. It's really upsetting how uncaring his response back to me was. But id like to get a bit more info from him.

I do understand about releasing the fury from fauna's BOI. It can get crazy on there. It would be nice if the seller explains his actions, and hopefully it was just a judgment issue. I really hope that he does something to remedy this situation with you.

Morgan

Fauna is short for faunaclassifieds.com, a place where many people sell animals.
The BOI is the Board of Inquiry on fauna, where you can ask about specific sellers/breeders and get feedback from those who have dealt with that person.

Can we have the name at least? We'll hold off on the pitch forks and give him a chance to make it right... But, it would just be better for us to be aware just so we can protect ourselves and the animals.

It make me wonder if the snake was actually alive when it was packed and had not passed away before it was even shipped! what a scam sell a dead snake and have paypal take the fall... I don't know if it is possiable or what happened, but it kinda makes you wonder...

It is very sad. I feel sorry for the pin.

Yes this was something I was thinking about as well. What if the snake died prior to shipping and he sent it out anyways. That's really sad one would do that to another. I bought the animal from an ad on kingsnake from a man named Shelby Mershon.

Again I want to just put this out there until I had a few more emails with him on this at least. I'm making no judgements yet on anything. I'm trying to be as respectful to his business as possible. But I do think it's important to let people know what happened. But before I make any judgement calls on his business I'd like to see if he was the one whom really packed him, and other small details like this. He said himself hed received many animals in the mail like this and he felt comfortable shipping him out like that after duplicating what hes seen. I know that that isbt the accepted shipping nor safe shipping practice I also know from what he'd mentioned is he has other animals that went out and I hope it's not like that. But I'll be reserving all formal complaints for after trying to resolve this a little more.

That is a very fair attitude, I hope that it is actually a mistake somewhere, I hate to think that a breeder of any animal would intentionally rip off a client or be naive enough to think a chemical hand warmer was good enough, those things hardly work in my gloves to shovel out the driveway by the time I am done they have gone cold. I hope that you get a fair resolution to the situation. Do you know if he has a replacement snake?

At this point even if he did bc he lied so hardcore on the phone with me which I'm still not judging I just don't feel comfortable doing a replacement. What ever went wrong pretty much tainted my thinking on this person.I keep looking at the email he sent and he admitted packing the animal. So this is either lack of experience or didn't care. I try and be fair when it comes to others' business just like id want someone to be to me. But in all reality this wouldnt happen with me and let's say by some crazy chance it
Did my first sentence would be what would you like to do replacement or refund. I feel like his email was kinda dodging any responsibility. But then again thats the only one I've gotten. I've going to give him a chance to explain and make it right.

I wonder if it's possible that the snake was cooked before it died... If it was mid-eighties outside the box, it could've been much hotter inside.

I don't understand why people even attempt to ship at all anywhere in the US in January..

too risky imo even when packed to the best of you ability

Sorry about the snake :(

Didn't you say it arrived UPS? UPS does not ship snakes period. :colbert: If he was a responsible shipper he would have known that. I hope you can get this all worked out.

I am really sorry the snake had to go through any of this.
I dont think I would wait 2 weeks for an answer!, 24 to 36 hours m-a-y-b-e...........

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

I don't understand why people even attempt to ship at all anywhere in the US in January..

too risky imo even when packed to the best of you ability

Sorry about the snake :(

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This is definitely inaccurate. I ship in Dec. - Feb. every year, and never have any problems. I just recently shipped an animal to a customer on the eastern seaboard, and the temps in Memphis were 13 degrees, and the temps at the destination were 19 degrees. The customer lives semi rural, and the Priority Overnight was guaranteed by noon. There was a problem with the arriving flight, and the animal didn't get delivered until 2 pm. With all of the extended time in the elements, the box still arrived and my customer shot some temps for me. Inside the box was 70 degrees, one heat pack was 108 degrees and the other was 100 degrees and the snake was 67 degrees. While the snake is what some consider to be on the cool side, I have never had a problem with a snake, as long as it stays over 60 degrees. ^0 is a bit cool, but a Ball exposed to that temp for a very short time (12 - 18 hours) is not going to harm it. As long as the snake is warmed up slowly back to normal temps, I have never had one get sick or suffer any other issue.

Cold weather shipping can be done, but some thought into what is happening, and a bit of experience go along way.

p.s. Sorry to the OP for the loss. I hope you get some resolution.

I think you are wise to wait and see. This guy imho sounds like a noob.
1. he used ups who do not knowingly ship snakes unless you grandfathered in before they stopped. (I bet if you check the box there is no notice of "Live animal inside" on it)
2. he used hand warmers instead of heat packs.
3. He used a heat gun thinking this would have some lasting effect.
4. Not sure but did you say there were no styrofoam inserts?

I think you are both kind and patient to wait to see what happens. Good Luck!

I disagree.

A "Noob" wouldn't necessarily LIE about how he's going to ship..sounds to me like a guy out for a quick buck, he didn't even invest any money in getting the materials needed to ship safely. I definitely am thinking he shipped a dead snake and there is no evidence to the contrary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

I think you are wise to wait and see. This guy imho sounds like a noob.
1. he used ups who do not knowingly ship snakes unless you grandfathered in before they stopped. (I bet if you check the box there is no notice of "Live animal inside" on it)
2. he used hand warmers instead of heat packs.
3. He used a heat gun thinking this would have some lasting effect.
4. Not sure but did you say there were no styrofoam inserts?

I think you are both kind and patient to wait to see what happens. Good Luck!

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Very true. I ship throughout the year. I live in Vt and ship all over the us. It can be done if done the right way. In the 400 bucks I spent on the animal I think the least he could have done was get shipping supplies, i had already waited about a month for the animal and woukd have waited longer and ship Fedex which was the company he said he was going to use and the company I ship through and the company that I am only comfortable using. I hate ups and in my area they are really awful. I think he is new to shipping. And I also think bc he had animals delivered to him in this manner he thought it would be ok to duplicate. This would have been ok in 50-80 degree weather. But let's face it it's the dead of winter in both locations. The fact that the way he shipped him he was comfortable with and even scared the snake would have too much heat is a little scary. I look at his shipping method as irresponsible and cheap. That's ridiculous to me. Also when he called me Monday morning and was concerned about the temp and asked for my advice and decision I told him I rather wait unless x factor and x factor is taken. Pretty much unless your going to pack him the way I'd pack him please wait. We agreed that this way was the way he'd be shipped out and using Fedex and if he had all the supplies (he was in the car when we were speaking) hed call me when he got home to confirm shipping. Which he never did. On top of that. Just in case I sent him an email saying hey didn't hear from you I assume you didn't ship but if by some chance you did please send the tracking. I didn't get that until after I had received the doa animal. IMHO he never was going to use the shipping method I was comfortable with and just wanted a yes ship him out and It looks like now 2 complete days later that he is going to ignore me. I knew that he was going out if town after he shipped him out. But I had also been told that he had all the correct supplies on hand or he'd wait. So I didn't mind him going out of town. In the end I'm sure even at the ends if the earth a person could at least answer an email trying to resolve the situation. I see this as an cheap or inexperienced shipper and he's real sorry about what happened but has yet to give me some thought on a solution. So I get more irritated everytime I check my email.
It was a syr box and there were inserts but we agreed on a styrofoam cooler outer box as well and 2 40 hr heat packs. Packed well with newspaper which there was a bit in there too. So he really only did the bare min packing with crap hothands.
http://184.72.239.143/mu/47a1d529-c8a2-38c4.jpg

Well, I don't see anything wrong with the box, structural wise, the styrofoam seems to fit tight enough to be acceptable, and it's packed according to standards. So, I don't see how he can be a noob, the packing is standard.

Soooo, unless he shipped the snake dead, those heat packs by some freak accident of bad luck cooked it, and now he seems to just be avoiding you.

Good luck

I don't like the hothands for shipping material. I'd be ok with the way he had packed it if.... It was much warmer than it was. He called and asked what I was comfortable with and we agreed on the double box. In the weather we are in the one box just doesnt work well especially without proper heat. IMHO. This is based on the tests I've done aswell as what I've shipped.

This is exactly why I simply do not ship in the winter.. Those heat packs are not expensive at all and he could have had some shipped to him in only a few days. There is no excuse for this. I bet he is not Fedex certified and he completely broke the UPS rules by shipping a snake with them.

I'm sorry for your loss.

I know that you are trying to be fair and I commend you for that. But a reliable and trustworthy new shipper could have done more research and simply asked how to!!! Lord knows I have not started my breeding as of yet but when I do I will be calling on some of you that I trust to talk to you in regards to the how to!!!!!! I wish you all the best in getting your money back....I unfort. have a feeling it is going to be long ride for you.

PPl need to remember as large of a community as we are ...we are also a very tight knit community. Do one wrong and you might as well do all of us wrong!!!!

This is true. That's why I love the bp community. I felt like ok maybe hasn't had much experience shipping so he was asking how comfortable I was with the temps and etc. And I was totally fine with waiting if he needed time to get more supplies. I just would have liked to have been told that instead of yea I have all that stuff. Sure. I have had good experiences shipping in cold weather and I felt confident the snake would have been just fine with proper heat and the extra box for insulation. But this definately isn't what happened. It's been 4 days and I have yet to get another email back. I knew at once that this was going to be a long process. I hope for the best still. It's still just too bad that it happened like this did. I'm a small company and I really try and give back to other small companies buying from them. After all we all get our start from someone. The only real times I go with the big boys is for the super high qualities and then it's just too expensive to risk. And good genes are def an absolute necessary. But I try to give everyone a fair chance. I see way too many people that may have conflict and they get hotheaded fast. I try not to. After all you catch bees with honey. Or a snake with a fat juicy rat ;). Also I don't want to completely possibly hurt someones reputation or business if it's something that can be fixed or solved amicably we all make mistakes. But it's beginning to look like a bad deal the farther this thing goes on. And either way I feel like community should be warned. Sad to say but it's turning out to be a really big crappy deal and thats the crummy part. He could at least answer the darn email. Arg

That is the bad feeling that I am getting for you. We all have some way of checking our email regardless of where we are in the world. I think you are going to get ignored in the hopes that you will give up. UPS is not going to insure it, being it was a live animal. I would start the claim process rolling with pay-pal first thing monday morning.
Just my thoughts.

again I am so sorry this is happening to you!! Please continue to let us know how this plays out.

Ya know it might be neat to see a thread "How to Ship in Cold Weather" w pictures and directions. Maybe like a best practice for others to see!

I agree, I figured at once it would be a long process. It's really frustrating. I have myself tested a few Methods of shipping. And it's definately something that would be good to see a perfect way. In the end it still comes down to the shipper. If none of those safeguards are done it's all futile. I know for a fact he can answer emails wherever he is and the fact he isnt is pretty disrespectful and unencouraging. Which isn't helping the situation.I appreciate all the replies and support in this situation. Ill be keeping all updated as things progress. Hopefully it doesn't get too crazy.
Thanks!

Well i hope you take me up on a thread. I personally would like to see a best practices so when it comes time for me to have to ship I take all precautions!!

cmon...Foschi and Homegrown....;)

Lol it's so easy to package and ship correctly that I believe it's pure laziness to not do so. It isn't a question of $$ either. I just think that personally everyone should stop using newspaper and start using polyester pillow fill. It's so much softer, warmer, and more insulate. I love it. I do recall seeing a thread posted by someone else last year with photos of how they packed their boxes but I don't remember who it was. There were photos or a video im sure.

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

again I am so sorry this is happening to you!! Please continue to let us know how this plays out.

Ya know it might be neat to see a thread "How to Ship in Cold Weather" w pictures and directions. Maybe like a best practice for others to see!

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This is a good write up on winter shipping. No pictures, but it explains it well.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...inter+shipping

Yes that is a good write up. I just read as well Muddocs In his separate thread and I thought that was an excellent write up as well. My shipping pro are the exact same just on super cold days I add another box or a styrofoam outerbox. But everything else is the same. I think like I've said before if he had used proper heat that snake would have had a chance. Still no response. Still frustrated over the whole situation. Still out a pinstripe and the $ I
Payed for him. Poop situation all
Around. Crummy

I think I have a bad shipping procedures story that trumps ALL.

When I first got into ball pythons about 8 years ago, I saw someone selling normal females for $20 Shipped. That should have been a tip off...

but I went ahead and bought one anyway.

So I pay, and I am waiting for the snake...
next day arrives...nothing. Ok, maybe she didn't ship...
Next day...nothing.

Finally the third day...box comes in.
I open it up...and inside is a sock....tied in a knot...tossed in the box with very little shredded magazine.

It was shipped 3 day US postal service...

Needless to say...the snake was dead. It also looked no older than 1-2 days.

I felt terrible for the snake and emailed her. She told me her brother had shipped it because she was away from home and she would talk to him. She didn't have any more left...so I asked for a refund. She demanded that I ship the dead snake BACK to her...as proof that it was dead, so she knew I wasn't trying to rip her off for $20...

Yeah. Needless to say I sucked up the loss and never dealt with her again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kingofspades

I think I have a bad shipping procedures story that trumps ALL.

When I first got into ball pythons about 8 years ago, I saw someone selling normal females for $20 Shipped. That should have been a tip off...

but I went ahead and bought one anyway.

So I pay, and I am waiting for the snake...
next day arrives...nothing. Ok, maybe she didn't ship...
Next day...nothing.

Finally the third day...box comes in.
I open it up...and inside is a sock....tied in a knot...tossed in the box with very little shredded magazine.

It was shipped 3 day US postal service...

Needless to say...the snake was dead. It also looked no older than 1-2 days.

I felt terrible for the snake and emailed her. She told me her brother had shipped it because she was away from home and she would talk to him. She didn't have any more left...so I asked for a refund. She demanded that I ship the dead snake BACK to her...as proof that it was dead, so she knew I wasn't trying to rip her off for $20...

Yeah. Needless to say I sucked up the loss and never dealt with her again.

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That's horrible.

Oh my god that's way awful awful. I just got a refund from the sender so hopefully this turn out good in the end. Still waiting to clear. But.... It tool a Month or 2.

dang both those shiping issues make me shudder. I glad I had good exper with the few I done . I need ot get off my butt and get my fedex cert for this summer.