New Scrub - Very Frightened / Nervous

Hello,

I just received a new Jayapura scrub python last week. I was told she was about 2 years old (I would say 6 ft.) and feeding weekly on small rats. When I first got her out of the box, she was very frightened and tried to escape, peeing and pooping. Pretty normal, though my emerald tree boa was a lot less nervous when I got her. Sometimes when I enter the room, I see her dart back into her hide. She will not leave the hide when I am in the room, but she will explore when I am not. I figured it was a long shot, but I tried to feed her this weekend. No dice, but I figure it was probably too early to try that.

My question is what's the proper methods and timeline for trying to get her to warm up to me? Should I leave her to hide? Should I handle her regularly even though she's desperate to escape? I was thinking maybe leaving the f/t rat during the night, so she could eat without me being there. I have never seen a snake so frightened before, so I'm just not sure what the best strategy is. With scrubs reputation, I definitely want to get her used to me as much as possible before she grows up.

Considering I just got her, I am sure her temperament will change, but I want to make the right moves early.

Thank you.

I know there are a lot of posts about nervous snakes; I just figure it's always better to ask than not.

I would suspect the nervousness will subside over more time.

I did read a post about putting the snake into a bath, then putting your arm in as an escape, so they associate you with security. Seems pretty drastic, but it is interesting.

Did her prior owner say anything about her temperament, or how often she was handled? Some keepers only pick up or move their snakes when the enclosure needs to be cleaned, and even then it's just to put the snake into a temporary tub and back.

What kind of enclosure (glass-sided, PVC, melamine, or ...)?

Is she in a minimal QT setup?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

Did her prior owner say anything about her temperament, or how often she was handled? Some keepers only pick up or move their snakes when the enclosure needs to be cleaned, and even then it's just to put the snake into a temporary tub and back.

What kind of enclosure (glass-sided, PVC, melamine, or ...)?

Is she in a minimal QT setup?

---

I got her from Joe Switalski. He didn't mention handling frequency, as the original ad was for a different scrub, but it had just sold, so he mentioned a jayapura male and female instead (I just bought the female). The pictures he sent was of them being handled and they seemed fine.

Right now she is in a temporary sterilite tote (papertowels, hide, climbing branches, water bowl) while I finish her permanent enclosure over the next month or so. It's clear on all sides, but it is not in rack, so I was thinking about using some construction paper to black out some of the sides for a better sense of security.

I haven't heard about the arm in the bathtub trick but I wouldn't recommend it. I would suggest giving her more time to acclimate. Try getting her to eat 2-3 times before attempting to handle her. I've had my scrub for a little over a year and even though he's gotten quite a bit better, he's still more defensive than any of my other snakes. Kinda comes with the territory sometimes. I have noticed that it's much easier to remove him from his hides than it is from a perch. They're a very cool species but you have to stay on your toes with them. They can be a little unpredictable. Best wishes with your new girl! :snake:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

I haven't heard about the arm in the bathtub trick but I wouldn't recommend it. I would suggest giving her more time to acclimate. Try getting her to eat 2-3 times before attempting to handle her. I've had my scrub for a little over a year and even though he's gotten quite a bit better, he's still more defensive than any of my other snakes. Kinda comes with the territory sometimes. I have noticed that it's much easier to remove him from his hides than it is from a perch. They're a very cool species but you have to stay on your toes with them. They can be a little unpredictable. Best wishes with your new girl! :snake:

---

I was actually hoping you would respond. Your scrub is very pretty.

That was about the response I was expecting. Thank you!

And yea, I generally don't remove from a perch. Makes it hard to handle my emerald tree boa that is always perched, but sometimes the stars align.

As stated more time. Then I would do the tap an handle. Start slow, she will let you know if it's time to go back.

Now, post her pic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 303_enfield

As stated more time. Then I would do the tap an handle. Start slow, she will let you know if it's time to go back.

Now, post her pic.

---

I haven't gotten a good picture myself yet, but here's one from the breeder. She's just much larger than this picture.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/1uRZxLK.jpg

I think you'll enjoy the scrub experience. Very nice animals! i definitely agree with tap training as mentioned earlier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wnateg

I haven't gotten a good picture myself yet, but here's one from the breeder. She's just much larger than this picture.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/1uRZxLK.jpg

---

Beautiful!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

They're both gorgeous. Which one did you choose?

---

The female. I think that's the bottom one in the picture, because it looks like the top has a band I don't recall seeing. When she warms up, I'll see about getting a picture myself.

Congrats on your new pickup! She’s gorgeous! Joe always gets his hands on killer animals. Did he mention whether she is WC or CB? I’d say the likelihood is very high that she has been handled very little, if at all, in her two years of life. So she will probably just require some patience.

Interesting that she she did not eat for you. Did you mention her current setup? One thing that should be mentioned is that scrubs are NOTORIOUSLY cage defensive. Once out, she will likely calm down. It’s the getting her out that’s the trick ;)

In that respect, a glove might help you feel more confident when its time for removal. (Anyone who says gloves are for sissies has never been bitten by an arboreal snake. She has teeth like your ETB and will not hesitate to use them on your face) as scrubs gain size, it is also helpful to use a basking shelf or removable perches in the cage, rather than branches. (I have not yet made this transition and simply don’t bother trying to move my scrub when he’s perched anymore. Not worth the fight.)

You will be do delighted with this animal, though she may require extra patience. Scrubs are fiercely intelligent and handling is definitely about respect, rather than domination. 2 years later and I still sometimes have to just quietly set my hand in my scrubs cage for a little to see how he feels about it that particular day. He’s the tamest, sweetest scrubby I know, yet he still never comes out of his cage willingly.

You’re in for such a treat!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Slytherin

Congrats on your new pickup! She’s gorgeous! Joe always gets his hands on killer animals. Did he mention whether she is WC or CB? I’d say the likelihood is very high that she has been handled very little, if at all, in her two years of life. So she will probably just require some patience.

Interesting that she she did not eat for you. Did you mention her current setup? One thing that should be mentioned is that scrubs are NOTORIOUSLY cage defensive. Once out, she will likely calm down. It’s the getting her out that’s the trick ;)

In that respect, a glove might help you feel more confident when its time for removal. (Anyone who says gloves are for sissies has never been bitten by an arboreal snake. She has teeth like your ETB and will not hesitate to use them on your face) as scrubs gain size, it is also helpful to use a basking shelf or removable perches in the cage, rather than branches. (I have not yet made this transition and simply don’t bother trying to move my scrub when he’s perched anymore. Not worth the fight.)

You will be do delighted with this animal, though she may require extra patience. Scrubs are fiercely intelligent and handling is definitely about respect, rather than domination. 2 years later and I still sometimes have to just quietly set my hand in my scrubs cage for a little to see how he feels about it that particular day. He’s the tamest, sweetest scrubby I know, yet he still never comes out of his cage willingly.

You’re in for such a treat!

---

Thank you! I appreciate you putting so much thought into a reply.

I believe she is CH. I've only handled her twice. Once to get her out of the shipping box and once more to adjust something in her tote (she is in a plastic tote while I work on her permanent enclosure), and both times all she did was desperately try to get away while peeing and pooping. So much so that it seemed rude to try to hold her for any extended period of time. I've seen her peak her head out of her hide periodically, but not much else. I'm going to try to feed again tomorrow. I will certainly update the results.

Dangled a ft small rat outside of the hide for a bit, she didn't come out, so I left it overnight, and when I woke up, it was still there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wnateg

Dangled a ft small rat outside of the hide for a bit, she didn't come out, so I left it overnight, and when I woke up, it was still there.

---

Well you've only had her for what, a week+? And she's 2 years old, so I'd assume it's far more stressful on her that her entire world has just radically changed. She feels
very threatened, & with nervous re-homed snakes, it's often best not to even try to feed for 2+ weeks while they settle in, as they may regurgitate what they swallow just because they're still panicked. Note, I have no experience with these specifically, but just known many snakes of all kinds for many years...just be patient. Very patient.

These are not the calmest snakes to begin with, right? :rolleyes: But in time your efforts should pay off, & she's very pretty btw. At first I thought you got a 2-headed snake, from the photo...:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Well you've only had her for what, a week? And she's 2 years old, so I'd assume it's far more stressful on her that her entire world has just radically changed. She feels
very threatened, & with nervous re-homed snakes, it's often best not to even try to feed for 2 weeks while they settle in, as they may regurgitate what they swallow just
because they're still panicked. Note, I have no experience with these specifically, but just known many snakes of all kinds for many years...just be patient. Very patient.
These are not the calmest snakes to begin with, right? :rolleyes: But in time your efforts should pay off, & she's very pretty btw. At first I thought you got a 2-headed snake,
from the photo...:D

---

Yea, that definitely all makes sense. It just makes me worry a lot when my pets aren't happy. Makes me want to do something, but there's really nothing to be done but wait I suppose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wnateg

Yea, that definitely all makes sense. It just makes me worry a lot when my pets aren't happy. Makes me want to do something, but there's really nothing to be done but wait I suppose.

---

I know the feeling...but remember that even a captive-bred snake is still a "wild" snake at heart. Be patient, try to imagine how crazy this all seems to her. She assumes
you're a predator, that's all that picks up a snake in nature, so it takes time to change her mind. The snakes we have to work the hardest on can be the most rewarding
though, in the long-run when we succeed. :snake:

Could she possibly be preparing to shed? If she's hiding day and night I wouldn't rule it out. In any event, don't worry about her not eating just yet. Double check your temps and if they're dialed in just leave her alone for 2 weeks before offering food again. Maybe she'll get build up an appetite in the interim. She's a well established animal at this point so it won't hurt to space out her feedings a bit. I feed my 2 y/o male a small or medium rat biweekly. I'm sure your girl will get on track soon. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

Could she possibly be preparing to shed? If she's hiding day and night I wouldn't rule it out. In any event, don't worry about her not eating just yet. Double check your temps and if they're dialed in just leave her alone for 2 weeks before offering food again. Maybe she'll get build up an appetite in the interim. She's a well established animal at this point so it won't hurt to space out her feedings a bit. I feed my 2 y/o male a small or medium rat biweekly. I'm sure your girl will get on track soon. :)

---

It's possible. I havent been able to get a good enough look at her to know for sure.

Alright, that sounds like a reasonable plan. Thank you!

Good news. I installed a night vision camera to see if she was active when I was gone, as I hadn't seen her out for a week. And when I pulled it up in the chickfila drivethru, she was perched up on the wood. She was rubbing her face a lot, like she was trying to get shed off, but I didn't see any shed. So that was weird. The humidity is 70%, so it shouldn't be stuck, if it is shed. She went into hiding when I opened the front door, so I'm not sure.

Nevermind, it is shed. It's around her neck right now, so I'll keep an eye to make sure it comes off. I'll try not to move to give her some time.

That helps explain the no eating.

Check out this shed!!!

https://i.imgur.com/ScESTz9.jpg

Impressive! :gj: And now maybe she'll eat for you too. ;)

Holy crap, that is a big shed! 😂 Yeah, it always seems to take mine much longer to go through the shedding process than other snakes. And the color change is so fast and subtle, you might not notice. Yay, maybe she’ll come out and play and snack for you now!

Did not eat :( left it overnight. She crawled all over it, but didnt show any interest. She's still hiding everytime I'm nearby, so no chance she'll take it from tongs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wnateg

Did not eat :( left it overnight. She crawled all over it, but didnt show any interest. She's still hiding everytime I'm nearby, so no chance she'll take it from tongs.

---

Rats! -no pun intended :D Just give it another week though, try not to worry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Rats! -no pun intended :D Just give it another week though, try not to worry.

---

My ETB seems to have gone on hunger strike now too. Sigh
Murphys Law

Are you warming the prey item up pretty good before offering it to your snake? And are you drop feeding initially or trying from tongs first? Your scrub is an established feeder and after a shed I'd think she'd be ready to eat. How are you heating your enclosure and what are your temps like?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

Are you warming the prey item up pretty good before offering it to your snake? And are you drop feeding initially or trying from tongs first? Your scrub is an established feeder and after a shed I'd think she'd be ready to eat. How are you heating your enclosure and what are your temps like?

---

Yea, I thaw it with cold water, then warm water for like 20 minutes. I tried with tongs trying to bring her out of the hide for 5 minutes or so, until my arm is tired, but she wont come out, so I leave it.

Uth. Ambient 78. Hotspot 88-90.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wnateg

Yea, I thaw it with cold water, then warm water for like 20 minutes. I tried with tongs trying to bring her out of the hide for 5 minutes or so, until my arm is tired, but she wont come out, so I leave it.

Uth. Ambient 78. Hotspot 88-90.

---

Does she have something to perch on? At this point I'd leave her completely alone, except for water changes, for a solid 2 weeks. She'll get hungry eventually and will start looking for food. I wouldn't even try feeding her until I saw her perched or roaming for food. Also, try superheating the rat with a hairdryer for a few seconds before offering it to your snake. I usually heat the rats up to about 100F.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

Does she have something to perch on? At this point I'd leave her completely alone, except for water changes, for a solid 2 weeks. She'll get hungry eventually and will start looking for food. I wouldn't even try feeding her until I saw her perched or roaming for food. Also, try superheating the rat with a hairdryer for a few seconds before offering it to your snake. I usually the rats up to about 100F.

---

Since I've gotten the camera to watch, everytime I'm not nearby, she is perched or exploring.

I really think she does want food, but she is too nervous. That's the vibe I'm getting.

I did the dance in front of her hide, but she didnt come out. Then I waited until she was roaming around. She struck at it a few times but wouldn't take it. So I've left it in there. So she still hasn't eaten since I've gotten her.

And my ETB hasnt eaten since 8/11, when she was previously taking meals like a champ. Nothing was changed with her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wnateg

I did the dance in front of her hide, but she didnt come out. Then I waited until she was roaming around. She struck at it a few times but wouldn't take it. So I've left it in there. So she still hasn't eaten since I've gotten her.

And my ETB hasnt eaten since 8/11, when she was previously taking meals like a champ. Nothing was changed with her.

---

"Mama said there'll be days like this..." ;) Snakes give us lots of practice dealing with frustration, for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

"Mama said there'll be days like this..." ;) Snakes give us lots of practice dealing with frustration, for sure.

---

Yea, it be a weight off the shoulders when she finally eats, that's for sure.

And when my alligator snapping turtle grows up, so I can stop throwing rats into the woods

I'm not sure why your girl still isn't eating W. It sounds like you're doing all the right things. My male hasn't missed a meal in the 14 months that I've had him. Do you have access to live feeders? You could see if that kicks her appetite into gear. You could also try a different prey type like a mouse or chick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

I'm not sure why your girl still isn't eating W. It sounds like you're doing all the right things. My male hasn't missed a meal in the 14 months that I've had him. Do you have access to live feeders? You could see if that kicks her appetite into gear. You could also try a different prey type like a mouse or chick.

---

Yes, I was on the same train of thought. I was thinking of trying a mouse, in case the breeder wasn't correct about the rats. Not to mention, she doesn't even act like the rat is food. When I leave it in there, she doesn't even seem to notice or care. I was worried about trying live because she just seems so timid.

Thank you!

Got a live rat. Put it in the enclosure. Was waiting in the room, but she wouldn't come out, so I left, turned out the light, and watched from my camera. After a while, she came out, struck at the rat a few times, then just left it. The rat wasnt dead or anything, but she just perched up and ignored it, so I removed the rat. Now I have a rat I dont know what to do with and a snake that still wont eat. Next attempt: large mouse?

I removed the hide on the right side so the rat couldn't hide.

https://i.imgur.com/FqPVjX6.jpg

Was she eating rats previously for sure? For a timid snake, I'd try to get either a rat pup (crawler) or a mouse (young hopper)...something that won't fight back
effectively. Maybe she will gain confidence that way? Not that I can speak for scrubs (no experience with them) but some snakes just need to get a taste of the
right thing, something they can easily over-power before they move up in size.

And as with any snakes, feeding regularly comes before any handling, especially such a high-strung species.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Was she eating rats previously for sure? For a timid snake, I'd try to get either a rat pup (crawler) or a mouse (young hopper)...something that won't fight back
effectively. Maybe she will gain confidence that way? Not that I can speak for scrubs (no experience with them) but some snakes just need to get a taste of the
right thing, something they can easily over-power before they move up in size.

---

The breeder said ft small rats. But these experiences leave me to believe that wasnt really the case.

So my thought might be she was eating mice. And shes unfamiliar with rat scent, so shes just trying to defend, not feed?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wnateg

The breeder said ft small rats. But these experiences leave me to believe that wasnt really the case.

So my thought might be she was eating mice. And shes unfamiliar with rat scent, so shes just trying to defend, not feed?

---

Could be. Have you tried leaving f/t in cage at night & staying away until morning? Seems like fear (either of prey, or of you, or both) keeps freaking her out & cancelling
out her hunger.

How often have you been trying to feed? (best not to offer more than once a week, just makes 'em more nervous)

8/25 - ft small rat, left overnight
Shed 8/29
8/31 - ft small rat, left overnight
9/7 - ft small rat, left overnight, struck at it
9/21 - ft small rat, left overnight
9/28 - live small rat, struck at it

Only once did she acknowledge that the rat was prey, when I caught her out and about and offered it. She struck, but seemed to be self defence, not feeding.

And after I dangle for 5 minutes or so, I leave the room because she is scared of me, so I dont want to disturb her.

And just to keep everyone updated on the situation:
Humidity is about 65%
Cool side is about 80 and warm side is about 90, hides on both sidds
Shes in that tub in that picture, it's about 3 ft long. Shes about high 6, maybe 7 ft long.

Well, if you've only tried rats (as seller told you) I think I'd try a mouse now...not much to lose? I feel for your frustration...can't see anything you're doing wrong,
but maybe the seller has given you incorrect information.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Well, if you've only tried rats (as seller told you) I think I'd try a mouse now...not much to lose? I feel for your frustration...can't see anything you're doing wrong,
but maybe the seller has given you incorrect information.

---

Yes, I think that's a good plan. I think I have an extra mouse in my freezer anyway.

I think you're trying a little too hard. If she's almost two then she was obviously eating before you got her so she won't starve. I would leave her alone. Let her get comfortable before offering any more food. She'll eat when she's hungry. Scrubs are often nervous and defensive. My male has gotten better after 14 months but he still prefers to be left alone. I have my scrub in a tank now too but I started him out in a smaller tub. You could try covering the sides of her enclosure to see if it gives her more of a sense of security. I would try feeding her when you see her comfortably perching and cruising her enclosure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

I think you're trying a little too hard. If she's almost two then she was obviously eating before you got her so she won't starve. I would leave her alone. Let her get comfortable before offering any more food. She'll eat when she's hungry. Scrubs are often nervous and defensive. My male has gotten better after 14 months but he still prefers to be left alone. I have my scrub in a tank now too but I started him out in a smaller tub. You could try covering the sides of her enclosure to see if it gives her more of a sense of security. I would try feeding her when you see her comfortably perching and cruising her enclosure.

---

Thatd definitely part of the problem at least, I think. She is very skittish.
But when I'm not around, she does explore and perch and such. I'm converting my closet to a reptile room, so I actually just moved her into there, so she's surrounded by walls on 3 sides, and she'll only see me when I check in on everything. Maybe that'll help.

Are you on Facebook?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Slytherin

Are you on Facebook?

---

I have a Facebook, yea. Why?

https://i.imgur.com/kPWttTR.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Team Slytherin

Are you on Facebook?

---

Messaged one of your suggestions, and he said to trying ft quail or day old chicks would be my best bet. So I'll try that, for sure. And considering the size, it's probably not CH, but wild. So that would definitely explain the behavior. Definitely not buying from that seller again then.